Foam on surface of cycling tank

[BellaNova]

Tank has been cycling since June 18th. 

UGF, mopani wood, water wisteria and hornwort, 50%tap (well- hard/alkaline) 50% filtered 

About 10 tadpoles(having the time of their life)

2 mystery snails

10+ pond snails (thanks PetCo)

7.4ph

0 ammonia

0 nitrates

0 nitrites

Originally the PH was around 8.4 and it has since gone down.

Im not sure whats causing the foam- the air stone bubbles and they just pile up to where the entire surface is like the picture. There isnt any visible biofilm on the surface. Is this a normal part of a cycling tank or am I potentially doing something wrong? 

I did a small water change but it had no effect on the foam...

[PygmyCorydora]

I don’t know what that is but I messed up and bough fish at the lfs without have a quarantine set up so I just took stuff from my existing tank to cycle it  and I saw that foam too not as much as you have. Might be something with cycling

make sure all your snails are okay. You could possibly filter it out with like a fish net to remove it 

just googled it and it could be poor water quality, bubble nest, or water agitation. Do a large water change 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

It’s proteins which change the surface tensions and cause the bubbles. Some folks actually base their water changes on the size and length of time it takes bubbles to burst from their apogee with the though being that the proteins are from waste that the tank can’t breakdown quickly.
This should resolve with cycling and water changes. However, I’ve had instances where it’s not stopped and it was due to something in the soil I used in attempted Walstad method setups and I never got it solved and it never became habitable - I couldn’t even get snails to live in it. 

[BellaNova]

I used fluval bio stratum in planters for the plants and normal aquarium gravel (rinsed)...

 

Thats interesting- I will try a 25% water change in a couple of days and see if that helps clear it up. Maybe its just a total overdose of stuff in the tank and very minimal good bacteria to feed on it? Tadpole and Snail poo, decaying plant matter, tannins from the wood, minerals etc.from hard well water.. i guess all of that together could be contributing to the frothy mess 😅

[HelplessNewbie]

I also had foam when I fishless cycled my first tank (20 gallon long). The substrate had wood/cellulose capped with coarse sand, and only rocks for hardscape. Thee foam eventually went away after 3 weeks. Like the others suggested, I think it will clear after cycling and a few water changes. I just waited until my tank was  cycled before I changed the water.

Edited July 16 by HelplessNewbie

[Odd Duck]

With normal parameters, I would be concerned about a bit of soap or lotion contamination with that much foam.  If your nitrogenous waste parameters were elevated, that could possibly cause this, but with ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate all normal, you’ll need to look for other causes as being more likely.  That’s a ton more foam than I’ve ever seen in a cycling tank that didn’t have crazy high nitrogenous waste levels.  Like, new reef tank stacked full of stinky, raw, live rock kind of waste levels to get even close to that much foam. I’ve had wipeout every fish level of crashed tanks that didn’t foam like that.  I would do a 50-75% water change because I’d bet you have soap or lotion traces in your water or on the surface.

[BellaNova]

On 7/17/2024 at 12:13 AM, Odd Duck said:

With normal parameters, I would be concerned about a bit of soap or lotion contamination with that much foam.  If your nitrogenous waste parameters were elevated, that could possibly cause this, but with ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate all normal, you’ll need to look for other causes as being more likely.  That’s a ton more foam than I’ve ever seen in a cycling tank that didn’t have crazy high nitrogenous waste levels.  Like, new reef tank stacked full of stinky, raw, live rock kind of waste levels to get even close to that much foam. I’ve had wipeout every fish level of crashed tanks that didn’t foam like that.  I would do a 50-75% water change because I’d bet you have soap or lotion traces in your water or on the surface.

This crossed my mind but I am hyper aware of this possibility because I use voltaren frequently. Because I didnt want to cross contaminate with that medication I actually purchased elbow length gloves. I have not put my bare hands in the tank, ever. Ive only rinsed the plants with bare hands and that was after throughly cleaning my hands and nails with 99.9% biodegradable soap. I decorated the tank and moved plants around in it with gloves on. 

 

[AllFishNoBrakes]

The only time I’ve had bubbles stick together at the surface is in one of my blackwater tanks where I went suuuuuper heavy on the tannins. 
 

Mine weren’t as concentrated as yours, and mine were all the same size and just stuck together instead of looking like foam. That’s my only personal experience with any kind of bubbles sticking together on the surface. 

[Odd Duck]

On 7/17/2024 at 9:46 AM, BellaNova said:

This crossed my mind but I am hyper aware of this possibility because I use voltaren frequently. Because I didnt want to cross contaminate with that medication I actually purchased elbow length gloves. I have not put my bare hands in the tank, ever. Ive only rinsed the plants with bare hands and that was after throughly cleaning my hands and nails with 99.9% biodegradable soap. I decorated the tank and moved plants around in it with gloves on. 

 

Anyone else in the household that could have been trying to “help”?  Any chance there’s anything on the gloves you’re using?  No one could have borrowed the gloves for household chores?  Or that they could have been accidentally laid down on some soap?  You might need to do some detective work and see if you can figure it out.

If it’s not soap, then there is something very awry with the tank that isn’t showing up on your standard testing parameters.  It may only be the very high tannin levels from the new wood, but be careful with leaving that much foam on the surface.  I would still do a water change to clear out such excessive foam.  Excessive foam can limit surface gas exchange, and adding air stones to a tank with that much foam won’t always help when there is so much foam since it just makes more foam.  I’ve run some very dark tannin levels a few times and not gotten foam like that, but every tank is different.  When I've run tannins that high it wasn’t from fresh wood but from IAL and rooibos tea combos so that may very well be the difference.

Are you using API Master test kit by chance?  If you are, are you shaking the number 2 bottle of the nitrate test kit really hard for a full 2 minutes before using it?  Is the test kit in date?  The nitrate test is notorious for being under the actual value if the second bottle is not sufficiently agitated every time or the kit is out of date.  I can’t speak to other liquid test kits as I haven’t used a different brand of liquid test in decades.  Most strips are at least reasonably in range for nitrate until you get to the low end.  Not the most accurate but the test strips can usually at least give you trends.

Good luck sorting things out.  It may seem simple but some things can be trickier than you might think to figure out.

[BellaNova]

On 7/18/2024 at 12:33 AM, Odd Duck said:

Anyone else in the household that could have been trying to “help”?  Any chance there’s anything on the gloves you’re using?  No one could have borrowed the gloves for household chores?  Or that they could have been accidentally laid down on some soap?  You might need to do some detective work and see if you can figure it out.

If it’s not soap, then there is something very awry with the tank that isn’t showing up on your standard testing parameters.  It may only be the very high tannin levels from the new wood, but be careful with leaving that much foam on the surface.  I would still do a water change to clear out such excessive foam.  Excessive foam can limit surface gas exchange, and adding air stones to a tank with that much foam won’t always help when there is so much foam since it just makes more foam.  I’ve run some very dark tannin levels a few times and not gotten foam like that, but every tank is different.  When I've run tannins that high it wasn’t from fresh wood but from IAL and rooibos tea combos so that may very well be the difference.

Are you using API Master test kit by chance?  If you are, are you shaking the number 2 bottle of the nitrate test kit really hard for a full 2 minutes before using it?  Is the test kit in date?  The nitrate test is notorious for being under the actual value if the second bottle is not sufficiently agitated every time or the kit is out of date.  I can’t speak to other liquid test kits as I haven’t used a different brand of liquid test in decades.  Most strips are at least reasonably in range for nitrate until you get to the low end.  Not the most accurate but the test strips can usually at least give you trends.

Good luck sorting things out.  It may seem simple but some things can be trickier than you might think to figure out.

Thanks so much for your response. I am using API and all bottles have 3+ years before expiration. I do shake the #2 bottle for a count to 60. I did a 25% water change and the foam cleared for a day and when i woke up the next morning it was back again. I will redo the tests right now and try shaking the bottle for a full 2 minutes and see if the results show anything different. I tested yesterday and ph is 7.6 so i tested High Ph and it appears as 7.4. All other parameters for the API were 0- not even a hint of green on ammonia. The only thing i have put in the tank with intent to help the cycling process was "Aqueon Pure Live Beneficial Bacteria and Enzymes" - I added 2 of the little  capsules during week 1 and added one more on week 3. Im not using a HOB filter- im using a UGF and had alot of issues with the airstones and pump not putting out equally to both sides. I unfortunately havent purchased the adjustable airstones from CO-OP yet but I do plan to eventually switch them out when I have a 50$ order and make a purchase. The air pump was finally fixed by putting a control valve and spending about an hour hunched over adjusting the dial and the valve to get both sides about equal lol 

Nothing seems to be suffering. The plants all have new growth, and have all anchored with roots as well. The single mystery snail stays busy giving piggy back rides to the pond snails from petco and the tadpoles are all fine and do not seem stressed- except the one that was eviscerated when i was removing some of the pond snails with suctioned airline tube and accidentally got it too...still feel bad about that 😕 

I did add some hornwort recently (after the foam). In the process of planting it and moving it around a small section broke off and eventually floated down near the other plants and got lodged. Its right next to my pillow so its been in my line of sight for about 5 days now and this morning when I turned on the light I saw some type of eggs that I cant identify. Definitely not snail eggs and definitely were not there the night before. It almost looks like the bladders on a bladderwort plant. Ive added a picture- but this is the only oddity thats occured.

 

It does seem weird to me that all parameters are normal when all the plants, tadpoles and snails are all doing their thing pooping and decaying and such... I will check parameters again right now and do as you suggested shaking the bottle for atleast 2 minutes- and will report back. 

 

Thanks again

 

Edit: to answer your question- my son is very curious about it all but knows not to put his fingers or hands in the water...but its possible! The gloves may also have something on them. I will rinse the gloves from now on before putting in the aquarium. When i was doing the water change the sunlight was coming thru the window at the kitchen sink and i did notice a slight biofilm/oil slicky/soap sheen appearance on the surface of the water but in normal indoor lighting it wasnt noticeable from any angle. So it may be something you mentioned that just ended up in the tank somehow. Ill keep doing water changes and hope it clears up soon. 

Edited July 20 by BellaNova

[Odd Duck]

I think water changes should clear it.  It still may be soap contamination but seeming more likely that it’s just from the high tannins from the wood.  I don’t like to see any hint of oily film on the surface of a tank because that can definitely inhibit gas exchange.  For sure, do more water changes.  It might slow down the settling in process in the tank but far better to be rid of any surface film.

Those blobs could be eggs but could also be bits of food that are rotting.  They don’t have anything that looks like viable embryos in their centers so random bits of food seems more likely.  I would probably remove them just to be safe since they don’t have centers that look like anything living.

[MattP]

Hmmm  🤔 Theres a lot going on in there with the plants, tadpoles and tannins.  I don't think the foam is anything to worry about but it's a little unsightly. 

 

I used to use these surface skimmers from ali express but honestly I never had a great experience using it.  They become clogged and stop working eventually.    After they're cleaned they work as intended.  the whole unit is suctioned cupped into the back of the tank so cleaning it was  little annoying.    You gotta jank the whole thing outta there and wash it out.  Sometimes the suction cups would give way and it would go down into the tank.  I used a little fluff of polyfill in them and also a tiny bit of carbon pellets.  It works better just with poly-fill.  There isn't exactly a ton of room for filtration media in those.   I never bothered using them with the little bubbler thing.  That's the part attached with tubing. It did work, it just wasnt great to deal with.

 

Later I started using top fin pro hob filters.  These have a handy little surface skimmer built right in.  I like this better because I get a surface skimmer but also get a whole filtration system.   I still have the JY-03 skimmers but have abandoned using these in favor the the top fin pro hobs pictured to the right.  So to summarize the surface skimmer will mechanically filter some of those excess proteins making it to the top of the tank causing the bubbles.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 22 by MattP