goodjobchamp Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 So I cycled a tank a month and a half ago and put some young plecos in to grow out. Cycle ended up crashing but also found out the ph has been crashing aswell. What causes the ph to crash even as we speak while i put in enough ammonia for a little over 1 ppm ammonia the ph is significantly lower than my other tanks and has way less kh. My other tanks have 5 kh this one is down to 1-2. I ordered some crushed coral to hopefully combat the kh drop but i would like to know why its happening. List of whats in the tank. size 20g long 1 medium sized piece of wood and 2 small pieces of wood. 3 plants anubias and java fern. I had a cutting from my pothos but it grew one little root and just started falling apart idk why. The rest of growing new leaves etc. pleco caves and 3 sponge filters. My plan was to take one out in the future to seed another tank. The tank is cycled but it processes the ammonia a little slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 Nitrifying bacteria use Carbonate and bicarbonate as a carbon source so it’s normal for kh to go down especially when cycling it’s also possible the wood is giving off tannins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rube_Goldfish Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 What substrate are you using? Some of them can really suck up KH and cause a consequent drop in pH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodjobchamp Posted June 28 Author Share Posted June 28 no substrate. @Rube_Goldfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SantaMonica Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Without a substrate a tank can have larger fluctuations in many things, like pH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodjobchamp Posted June 28 Author Share Posted June 28 i had pool filter sand in it before, would that be any better? @SantaMonica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SantaMonica Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 If that is just silica sand, then not really, for pH anyway. Might help with bioload though. Calcium carbonate based substrate, such as crushed coral, would help more directly with pH. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rube_Goldfish Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 What's weird is that this tank is so much different from your others. I know that there are a lot of variables and things can vary from tank to tank, but nothing really jumps off the screen as "well this is why the KH and pH are so low". If you do a water change, does the KH come back down to the 1-2 degrees range again, say 24 hours later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodjobchamp Posted July 2 Author Share Posted July 2 (edited) So i did a water change and the kh went up 2, I also put in some crushed coral about 4 days ago so im sure thats slowly helping aswell. I am around 3-4 kh on the tank now which im happier with. I think mentioned before the cycle was dropping the kh and i wasnt doing regular water changes on it since it didnt have any fish in it so i didnt think i had to. So this was probably an error on my part but when isnt it lol. @Rube_Goldfish Edited July 2 by goodjobchamp 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rube_Goldfish Posted Tuesday at 11:25 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 11:25 PM On 7/2/2024 at 3:00 PM, goodjobchamp said: So i did a water change and the kh went up 2, I also put in some crushed coral about 4 days ago so im sure thats slowly helping aswell. I am around 3-4 kh on the tank now which im happier with. I think mentioned before the cycle was dropping the kh and i wasnt doing regular water changes on it since it didnt have any fish in it so i didnt think i had to. So this was probably an error on my part but when isnt it lol. @Rube_Goldfish Glad to hear that things seem to be stabilizing. Generally I'd recommend no water changes during the cycling process, too, because you want the ammonia and nitrite, respectively, to build up, so I wouldn't call that an error. Just something that went weird on you. But it'll be something to keep an eye on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodjobchamp Posted Wednesday at 02:57 PM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 02:57 PM Ya i didnt water change it at all with the cycle but i think after it was cycled it wasnt fully breaking down the ammonia/nitrite in under 24 hours so i just kept dosing until it did so it was going threw all the ammonia just slowly and i may have over did it. I should probably water change in the future after a few dosses of ammonia. I grew a LOT of algae and since algae helps remove ammonia/nitrite should i only add 2 or 3 young plecos back into the tank? Because they went threw all the algae last time in like 3 days lol. @Rube_Goldfish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rube_Goldfish Posted Wednesday at 03:06 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:06 PM On 7/3/2024 at 10:57 AM, goodjobchamp said: Ya i didnt water change it at all with the cycle but i think after it was cycled it wasnt fully breaking down the ammonia/nitrite in under 24 hours so i just kept dosing until it did so it was going threw all the ammonia just slowly and i may have over did it. I should probably water change in the future after a few dosses of ammonia. I grew a LOT of algae and since algae helps remove ammonia/nitrite should i only add 2 or 3 young plecos back into the tank? Because they went threw all the algae last time in like 3 days lol. @Rube_Goldfish I haven't kept any plecos, so with that caveat out of the way: sure, if everything is fully cycled and the parameters are good for them, put them in. Just keep a close eye on them and on the parameters when you do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne 82nd Posted Saturday at 01:19 AM Share Posted Saturday at 01:19 AM OP goodjobchap What causes the ph to crash even as we speak while i put in enough ammonia for a little over 1 ppm ammonia the ph is significantly lower than my other tanks and has way less kh. One thing to keep in mind you are dosing a lot more ammonia during a fishless cycle then 3 young Plecos . Cycling out this high ammonia depletes your KH and causes pH crashes much faster than the ammonia your fish will put out. goodjobchamp but i think after it was cycled it wasnt fully breaking down the ammonia/nitrite in under 24 hours That tells me you were not cycled close but not there yet. I should probably water change in the future after a few dosses of ammonia. Not really just wait for the bb to finish eating the ammonia you put in. Water test every day redose as soon as ammonia and nitrItes get to 0 Forget about nitrAtes. Keep doing this until you get the same results (no ammonia no nitrItes) for 2 to 3 days in a row. Then check for nitrAtes and do a wc to get them bugs down to about 10 or less. Thi can wait until the day before you put fish in Remember you have to keep feeding the bb.ammonia untill the fish go in and the ammonia is 0. Now your colony of bb can support 1 to 2 ppm of ammonia. How much ammonia does 3 young Plecos produce? I don't think it would be 1 to 2ppm so if it is less than 1 to 2pp some of your bb will die off for lack of food. If it is more than 2ppm then you will see a ammonia spike until your bb can grow. So why not just add one at a time and see what happens to the ammonia. The best thing to do for a fishless cycle is to SLOW down it is only time. And add fish slowly to let your bb catch up. My last tank (no plants) took from Jan. week one to mid April. Now I'm sure I could be wrong about some of this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodjobchamp Posted Saturday at 04:50 AM Author Share Posted Saturday at 04:50 AM (edited) The last 3 days its gone through 2ppm ammonia in under 20 hours so im letting it sit for a few days and im gonna add 3 plecos and take it slow. Thank you for that detailed response i appreciate it! @Airborne 82nd Edited Saturday at 04:51 AM by goodjobchamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne 82nd Posted Saturday at 05:02 AM Share Posted Saturday at 05:02 AM (edited) Sounds like a plan. I love plecos and Oscars only fish I've ever had keep in mind they are pigs Plecos put out a lot of waste even the ones that stay small so keep up with wc and vaccuum the substrate plants help with the nitrAtes I'm going to try some porthos in some hob trays so Oscar doesn't tear them up. Edited Saturday at 05:06 AM by Airborne 82nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodjobchamp Posted Saturday at 05:13 AM Author Share Posted Saturday at 05:13 AM Oh ya i expected it, I was gravel vac every 3 days to start out so the tank wouldnt get overwhelmed but it ended up crashing anyways. The tank i had to swap them to with all my hillstreams and oto's has handled it perfectly I guess i just rushed it too fast for the new one. Ya i got 4 plants in the tank atm, sadly i think when the ph dropped like it did the newly added pothos trimming ended up turning black over time so ill have to get another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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