KH/GH/pH Issues please help, fish shipment arrived today - thanks!

[Seqkat]

Okay, I have very hard water GH wise. It's 300. But I've been dealing with very low KH and thus low pH, and doing a water change caused a drastic drop in pH to an acidic 6.2. I discovered that surprise this week after fish were ordered and on the way. My pH was staying around 6.5, but I noticed my KH was low, and NOW I understand KH is what stabilizes pH.

Research recommends crushed coral, which I don't have room for in my 10 gallon tank. I have a tiny submersible filter, no room for HOB, as the lid would not fit, and is much needed for I have pet cats. But also, I read crushed coral can raise the GH, which is already too high. Not much I can do about GH that I understand.

I don't really want to play chase the KH and chase the pH game, but I think I don't have much choice. So, I used Seachem Alkaline Buffer to help treating the tank yesterday. The color went from bright orange to red, last night, but looks like it might be heading to orange again today. And nitrates are staying high. Ammonia has been safe for a week.

I sadly have fish waiting to go in the tank that were shipped. I didn't understand when the ammonia went down the nitrites would go up. I get it now. The research didn't click until being in the experience. 😢 I see where water changes are recommended to lower the nitrites, but I fear it will drop the pH again.

Can I do the water change, add the Seachem Alkaline Buffer to the replacement water in a bucket?  Maybe let that sit in the bucket for an hour? Can I add Aqua Essential to the tank, and perhaps API Quick Start? (These are the products I have on hand today). I added the API Quick Start, last night nitrites still high today.

I have Aqua Natural Diamond Black Bio-Substrate Aquarium Gravel which is loaded with live bacteria. Planted tank is 11 days old. From where I got the fish they say they can live in the shipment box 7 days, they arrived today and are on day 3. They're still in the shipment box. Box opened, with Styrofoam lid slightly ajar, but bags not touched, they are alive.

Any advice to help these fish quickly is appreciated. Hard lessons learned to fully cycle a tank, I understand the lingo now with the hard experience. Things went click with the experience with my neurodivergent mind. Thank you for help in advance!!

Edited June 14 by Seqkat
Forgot to add one question

[Colu]

On 6/15/2024 at 12:35 AM, Seqkat said:

Okay, I have very hard water GH wise. It's 300. But I've been dealing with very low KH and thus low pH, and doing a water change caused a drastic drop in pH to an acidic 6.2. I discovered that surprise this week after fish were ordered and on the way. My pH was staying around 6.5, but I noticed my KH was low, and NOW I understand KH is what stabilizes pH.

Research recommends crushed coral, which I don't have room for in my 10 gallon tank. I have a tiny submersible filter, no room for HOB, as the lid would not fit, and is much needed for I have pet cats. But also, I read crushed coral can raise the GH, which is already too high. Not much I can do about GH that I understand.

I don't really want to play chase the KH and chase the pH game, but I think I don't have much choice. So, I used Seachem Alkaline Buffer to helpm treating the tank yesterday. The color went from bright orange to red, last night, but looks like it might be heading to orange again today. And nitrates are staying high. Ammonia has been safe for a week.

I sadly have fish waiting to go in the tank that were shipped. I didn't understand when the ammonia went down the nitrites would go up. I get it now. The research didn't click until being in the experience. 😢 I see where water changes are recommended to lower the nitrites, but I fear it will drop the pH again.

Can I do the water change, add the Seachem Alkaline Buffer to the replacement water in a bucket?  Can I add Aqua Essential to the tank, and perhaps API Quick Start? (These are the products I have on hand today). I added the API Quick Start, last night nitrites still high.

I have Aqua Natural Diamond Black Bio-Substrate Aquarium Gravel which is loaded with live bacteria. Planted tank is 11 days old. From where I got the fish they say they can live in the shipment box 7 days, they arrived today and are on day 3. They're still in the shipment box. Box opened, with styrofoam lid slightly ajar, but bags not touched, they are alive.

Any advice to help these fish quickly is appreciated. Hard lessons learned to fully cycle a tank, I understand the lingo now with the hard experience. Things went click with the experience with my neurodivergent mind. Thank you for help in advance!!

What you can is add alkaline buffer to your water in bucket before adding it to the tank before each water change as long as your testing your water after adding the buffer to make sure it's within the range you want I would get the fish out of the bag and in side the tank as soon as possible you will start to get ammonia build up in the bag 

[Seqkat]

Thank you, Colu. And for Aqua Essential, would that be good to treat the tank to get the nitrates down? And should I add more API quick start?

I appreciate your reply, truly!

[Tony s]

On 6/14/2024 at 7:35 PM, Seqkat said:

I sadly have fish waiting to go in the tank that were shipped. I didn't understand when the ammonia went down the nitrites would go up. I get it now. The research didn't click until being in the experience. 😢 I see where water changes are recommended to lower the nitrites, but I fear it will drop the pH again

not meaning to step over @Colu in anyway. He's got it spot on. I use the Seachem products due to iron bacteria in my well. So, I use reminerilized RO on everything. The Seachem products actually work great for me. But if I may, you'd also want to add the acid buffer with the alkalinity buffer. They have mixing directions on both bottles. I use a 2 to 1 formula of alkalinity to acid buffer. this gets me a constant ph of 7. If you only use the alkalinity buffer, you're only protected from ph crashes. Acid buffer protects you from ph spikes as well. the more you use of each, the higher your kh will rise. so, it takes a bit of trial and error to get to the levels you want. 

I'd also get your fish in the tank as soon as possible. They are building up ammonia constantly in the bag. I'd do a plop and drop unless they're sensitive species. the reason being the ammonia is relatively contained in the bag, as soon as you open it and add air, it becomes even more toxic.

The Aqua Essential is a new one to me. I prefer to use Seachem prime. but follow the bottle directions and it should work the same way.

[mynameisnobody]

What @Colu and @Tony s stated is what I do to the syllable. Personally, I’d get those fish out of those bags as soon as yesterday. Toss them in a tote with a sponge filter. 

[Tony s]

On 6/14/2024 at 7:35 PM, Seqkat said:

I discovered that surprise this week after fish were ordered and on the way.

I think we're forgetting something here. What kind of fish did you order? different kinds of water for different kinds of fish

[face]

Definitely get the fish in the tank regardless it’s better then whatever there exposed to in the box 

On 6/14/2024 at 8:45 PM, Tony s said:

I think we're forgetting something here. What kind of fish did you order? different kinds of water for different kinds of fish

this 

and honestly ph isn’t that important imo unless your trying to keep something that wants extremely hard water like African cichlids they will likely be ok and even then they would be far better off in acidic water then a box/bag 

And I wanted to add you could add a teaspoon of aquarium salt to detox the nitrite plants don’t love salt but it might help the fish 

Edited June 15 by face

[Seqkat]

Thank you, everyone for your replies truly! I have not opened the bag, I knew not to let new air to hit the ammonia. They are just as if they are shipped, and the shipper guarantees they can live in the shipment box for 7 days. 

I treated the new tap water with the Seachem alkaline and let it sit for an hour, and did a partial water change. I tested the water before I added it to the tank and the kh and ph were good. Nitrites even in the tap water were in the stress level.

I've added an air stone to get a little more movement, and added the Aqua Essential doing the level suggested that will dechlorinate as well as detoxify as it says the nitrites, 10 minutes ago. I saw a YouTube video that explains it should break it down so the filter can better manage it.

The fish are pygmy cories.

My only question now is, should I add more API Quick Start, or will that mess up what the API Aqua Essential is trying to do? The quick start is supposed to be adding more bacteria. It converts ammonia, which I don't have to nitrites to nitrates. I'm unsure if it will work w/o ammonia? And if the Aqua Essential gets the nitrites down, or holds it so won't harm the fish, as the YouTuber was trying to explain, I'm not sure I'm understanding that correctly? Would the Quick Start mess that up? Bear with me I'm neurodivergent, it's hard for me to understand things without a great deal of processing.

I plan on retesting again soon. I'm scared to put the fish in if the nitrites are still in the danger zone.

Thank you again everyone!!

 

On 6/14/2024 at 9:04 PM, face said:

Definitely get the fish in the tank regardless it’s better then whatever there exposed to in the box 

this 

and honestly ph isn’t that important imo unless your trying to keep something that wants extremely hard water like African cichlids they will likely be ok and even then they would be far better off in acidic water then a box/bag 

And I wanted to add you could add a teaspoon of aquarium salt to detox the nitrite plants don’t love salt but it might help the fish 

The problem was the pH dropped so low. All I'm trying do is trying to maintain a pH because I do understand a huge change in pH is too stressful for fish. The pH was hanging around 6.8 but the water change dropped it to 6.1. That was a drastic drop.

[Seqkat]

On 6/14/2024 at 8:18 PM, Tony s said:

not meaning to step over @Colu in anyway. He's got it spot on. I use the Seachem products due to iron bacteria in my well. So, I use reminerilized RO on everything. The Seachem products actually work great for me. But if I may, you'd also want to add the acid buffer with the alkalinity buffer. They have mixing directions on both bottles. I use a 2 to 1 formula of alkalinity to acid buffer. this gets me a constant ph of 7. If you only use the alkalinity buffer, you're only protected from ph crashes. Acid buffer protects you from ph spikes as well. the more you use of each, the higher your kh will rise. so, it takes a bit of trial and error to get to the levels you want. 

I'd also get your fish in the tank as soon as possible. They are building up ammonia constantly in the bag. I'd do a plop and drop unless they're sensitive species. the reason being the ammonia is relatively contained in the bag, as soon as you open it and add air, it becomes even more toxic.

The Aqua Essential is a new one to me. I prefer to use Seachem prime. but follow the bottle directions and it should work the same way.

I've seen the information to play with both the Acidic and Akaline buffers, but it is so confusing to me. So, I'm just trying to lock my kh where it's landing, and maintain that and the pH where it lands, just to stop it from having drastic changes. It looks like with the Seachem it's landing me on 7.2 with the pH and that's fine, just trying to stabalize it. That is consistent with the tank response too. Thank you, for your help!

[Tony s]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:12 PM, Seqkat said:

I've seen the information to play with both the Acidic and Akaline buffers, but it is so confusing to me

Acid Buffer	Alkaline Buffer	pH
1	1.3	6.5
1	2.0	7.0
1	2.5	7.5
1	4.0	8.0

 

let me walk you through it. it's actually pretty easy since you have no kh. if you want a stable ph of 7. I use a tablespoon of alkaline buffer and a half tablespoon of acid buffer. 1 part acid to 2 parts alkaline. the actual measurements don't matter. just the 2 to 1 ratio. you could do 1/2 teaspoon alkaline to 1/4 teaspoon acid. I make a lot of water at one time so you wouldn't want to copy my measurements exactly

Edited June 15 by Tony s

[Seqkat]

Thank you, Tony. I've seen that chart, but then I saw more information at their site of things to multiply and divide I'm lost. Math is not my subject. Lol. But thank you! Tested nitrates are safe, nitrites are at stress level, kh and ph are good. I think I can move my fish. Time to float them.

 

[Tony s]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:22 PM, Seqkat said:

Math is not my subject

it can get complicated for sure. but since you're starting at zero. you can basically throw out the rest of the math and stick to the ratio

when you make new water. just readjust only the water you're adding to the tank. 

On 6/14/2024 at 10:06 PM, Seqkat said:

Nitrites even in the tap water were in the stress level.

you're getting nitrites from your tap water?

[Seqkat]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:24 PM, Tony s said:

it can get complicated for sure. but since you're starting at zero. you can basically throw out the rest of the math and stick to the ratio

when you make new water. just readjust only the water you're adding to the tank. 

you're getting nitrites from your tap water?

That's exactly what I did treated the new water.

And yeah, right? Nitrites in tap water I thought that was weird too! I noticed, when I started the tank, the ammonia was high like it was supposed to be and the nitrites were always in the stress zone. The nitrates are okay.

[Tony s]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:29 PM, Seqkat said:

The nitrates are okay.

do you have nitrates yet? usually that bacteria processes about a week or 2 behind the ammonia to nitrite bacteria. but technically you're starting ahead, with nitrites already present

[Seqkat]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:33 PM, Tony s said:

do you have nitrates yet? usually that bacteria processes about a week or 2 behind the ammonia to nitrite bacteria. but technically you're starting ahead, with nitrites already present

Yes, I've had nitrates all along. They were in the safe zone at first. Then when the nitrites went higher so did the nitrates. They entered the danger zone as well. I started with a bio-substrate with live bacteria to help speed things up. So, perhaps that's why the nitrates were there? The nitrates are in a safe zone now, thankfully. The nitrites in the stress zone. The pygmy cories are floating. They're cute.

[mynameisnobody]

Have you tried keeping Pygmy  Cory’s before and had bad luck? Or are you chasing numbers? Just curious. 

[Tony s]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:44 PM, Seqkat said:

The nitrites in the stress zone. The pygmy cories are floating

wow, okay. let me wrap my head around this. nitrites in your tap. In your drinking water. you do know that's poisonous to you too? any chance you have well water. and a lot of animals nearby?

 

and your pygmies will actually do fine in lower ph water.

[Seqkat]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:55 PM, Tony s said:

wow, okay. let me wrap my head around this. nitrites in your tap. In your drinking water. you do know that's poisonous to you too? any chance you have well water. and a lot of animals nearby?

 

and your pygmies will actually do fine in lower ph water.

We do filter our water through the fridge. I'm going to set out some water for 24 hours and test it. Because I'll be adding nitrites every time, and have to be on top of treating that.

I know they like lower pH, just the significant drop is what I'm trying to avoid.

On 6/14/2024 at 10:50 PM, mynameisnobody said:

Have you tried keeping Pygmy  Cory’s before and had bad luck? Or are you chasing numbers? Just curious. 

I've had corydoras before years ago, when I had 29 gallon non planted. I'm talking this is like 20+ years ago. We only tested for pH. It's a whole new ball game now! I loved the corydoras, sweet fish and versatile. 🙂 I went with pygmy corycats this time because I only have a 10 gallon tank.

[Tony s]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:59 PM, Seqkat said:

Because I'll be adding nitrites every time, and have to be on top of treating that.

when you get your tank seasoned after a while. Not just cycled, it's a step beyond cycled. it should get easier, and your bacteria should be better able to handle it. but you'd still need to keep it in the back of your mind. 

 

fear of nitrogen compounds is what made me dig my well to 130 feet. (well, that and wanting at least 50 gallon per minute capacity) and we're responsible for a lot of the excess nitrogen in our area. thankfully we didn't hit any sulfur pockets on the way down

[mynameisnobody]

I could be crazy, but I’m pretty sure you would be fine just using dechlorinator. I would buy locally and you’re most likely fine. Just my opinion. I’ve lived in a soft water state and now hard, I’ve never had an issue that a fish couldn’t acclimate to my water. I don’t keep sensitive fish like discus, do my regular maintenance and I’ve never had an issue. Over time, you’ll be able to notice things with a quick glance of your aquarium. I think you might be overthinking this a bit. If you want to tinker by all means, but as my doctor told me, sometimes it’s best to stay off webmd. 
ps that’s not discredit the fine advice you got above. If you decide to continue then you got some good stuff up above. 

Edited June 15 by mynameisnobody

[Seqkat]

On 6/14/2024 at 11:06 PM, Tony s said:

when you get your tank seasoned after a while. Not just cycled, it's a step beyond cycled. it should get easier, and your bacteria should be better able to handle it. but you'd still need to keep it in the back of your mind. 

 

fear of nitrogen compounds is what made me dig my well to 130 feet. (well, that and wanting at least 50 gallon per minute capacity) and we're responsible for a lot of the excess nitrogen in our area. thankfully we didn't hit any sulfur pockets on the way down

Oh wow. When I used to own land we had a well. Now, I'm in a different state and in a neighborhood, so it's city water. Quite the adjustment - one, having to pay for it monthly lol. Just finished all my night chores and the fish are in and swimming delightfully. Cute little babies they are! Tired now, so tomorrow, I'm going set up a tap to test after 24 hours.

I really appreciate your help, Tony! It's been a stressful week and omg a stressful day. The support from everyone here, is wonderful! 🙂

On 6/14/2024 at 11:47 PM, mynameisnobody said:

I could be crazy, but I’m pretty sure you would be fine just using dechlorinator. I would buy locally and you’re most likely fine. Just my opinion. I’ve lived in a soft water state and now hard, I’ve never had an issue that a fish couldn’t acclimate to my water. I don’t keep sensitive fish like discus, do my regular maintenance and I’ve never had an issue. Over time, you’ll be able to notice things with a quick glance of your aquarium. I think you might be overthinking this a bit. If you want to tinker by all means, but as my doctor told me, sometimes it’s best to stay off webmd. 
ps that’s not discredit the fine advice you got above. If you decide to continue then you got some good stuff up above. 

It's just the nitrites and nitrates were in the danger zone, and I've been using the API dechlorinator, when I set it up and did the water change. The Aqua Essentials dechlorinates as well, but it also states that it detoxifies ammonia, nitrites and nitrates instantly. I tested after 20 mins, and things were better. Nitrates were good, but nitrites were in the stress zone. I will test tomorrow to make sure they're still good.

Thank you, so much for all your help and your reassurance! I appreciate that. I've been stressed for 3 days. I didn't want to hurt these little fishies. They're doing well swimming all around. Such cute baby pygmy cories, they're so tiny! 🙂

[face]

Have you ever done an off gas test on your water? It’s common for it to change after it’s out of the pipes for example my tap water is 8 ph my tank water is 6.5 my city increases the ph so it doesn’t eat our pipes but it goes back after a few hours if you haven’t just put some water in a cup and let it sit for a couple days give it a stir every once in a while and then test it for ph 

as for the nitrite how much do you have out of your tape exactly?

[CMcDermott]

Just add baking soda to your tank until the pH is where you want it, less than 8 will cause the pH to keep swinging up and down as the acids generated in the tank use up the carbonate. General Hardness is how much calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) is in your tank, KH is how much carbonate (CO3) is in your tank, so to increase the carbonate without increasing the calcium and magnesium add baking soda, which is sodium bicarbonate (Na2CO3). How much - depends on your tank's pH and what else in in your tank water so add a teaspoon of baking soda every day until the pH is above 8 or a little more (very high levels of dissolved sodium bicarbonate can push the pH to 8.8). Adding the baking soda slowly over time prevents giving your fish a pH shock. You will also need to add the baking soda to your change water to raise the pH to the same as your tank to prevent stressing the fish etc. with pH swings and to restore the carbonate that was used up by the acids generated in the tank. After the tank pH is stabilized you will quickly learn just how much to add each time you change the water, yes it's a pain to have to mix your change water but also lets you add chlorine remover before the chlorine gets in the tank, and isn't that big of a problem for a 10 gallon tank, just use a 5 gallon bucket to pre-mix the water. Baking soda is cheaper than the various blends being sold expressly for aquariums - which are often just pre-dissolved baking soda in water. Putting calcium carbonate in the tank in it's various forms like limestone, dolomite, aragonite etc. will raise both the GH and KH, and while it works well in tanks with lower GH by continuing to slowly dissolve releasing new carbonate as the already dissolved carbonate is used up by combining with the organic acids being generated in the tank, it also can be limited in adding KH (carbonate hardness) by the high GH as only so much calcium can dissolve in the water. Using sodium bicarbonate gets around this problem of raising the GH when added, but it isn't as simple as just putting some limestone in the tank to dissolve.

[HelplessNewbie]

On 6/14/2024 at 7:35 PM, Seqkat said:

But also, I read crushed coral can raise the GH,

Wait, is this true? I thought it is made of calcium carbonate which only raises KH.

[Tony s]

On 6/15/2024 at 4:36 PM, HelplessNewbie said:

Wait, is this true? I thought it is made of calcium carbonate which only raises KH

Yes it’s true. The calcium raises your gh. The carbonate raises your kh. The calcium also raises your ph as it breaks down. It’s why you find higher ph’s in places that have higher hardness. Places that have limestone based soils and aquifers.