Sponge Filter working?

[ToddBigEasy]

Hi!

I've got a 70 planted set up for almost a year now. Anyway I have experience for over 50 years and have had my share of all types of filtration over that time,  at the moment I have amongst other things, 2 sponge filters in the 70. I added the 2nd one a couple months ago a to "seed" for my new 110 I'm setting up soon.  I took them out to maintain the other night and noticed the original one had lots of black gunk squeeze out as per normal, the Coop one has literally nothing come out. The original one is smaller pore size for sure, it has an air stone that goes all the way to the bottom of the sponge,  the coop one has the air "collar" with the uplift tube.  Would there be any reason why the coop one did not seem to pull anything out?  is it working? Is the larger pore size not pulling small particulates?  would the lack of air stone limit the function?  The original sponge was cleaned when I put the coop one in too.  thanks for any ideas.  I just want to make sure I have it working properly before I move it to the 110.

Thanks,

Todd

[johnnyxxl]

Pore size does mean that until it's been collecting gunk as you called it for a while it won't get the smaller sized particles.  The collar doesn't seem to impact performance.  I am running two of the co-op sponges myself.  I am not going to clean them until I see stuff on them.  

[AllFishNoBrakes]

I’ve had 14 tanks for 4 years, and all of them have at least a Coop sponge filter. Larger tanks have additional HOB’s, canisters, or internal filters. 
 

All of my ACO sponges were fitted with air collars upon release, and anything bigger than a 10 gallon has the easy flow kit. 
 

I actually find that the air collars pull out more mulm and detritus than just an air stone. I think what you’re seeing is the smaller pore size non Coop sponge is simply collecting the smaller detritus faster, leaving not much for the Coop filter to pull. 
 

Coop sponge is definitely full of bacteria and performing biological filtration, just not much mechanical as the smaller pore size of the other filter is performing that function. I bet if you took out the smaller pore size filter, the Coop will pull smaller detritus as the bigger pores become “clogged”. 
 

Coop is all about Easy, and with the larger size pores that means cleaning the sponge less often. The trade off is it takes more time to be able to pull smaller detritus from the water column as the pores have to get smaller to pull that small detritus. 

[ToddBigEasy]

On 4/24/2024 at 11:05 AM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

I’ve had 14 tanks for 4 years, and all of them have at least a Coop sponge filter. Larger tanks have additional HOB’s, canisters, or internal filters. 
 

All of my ACO sponges were fitted with air collars upon release, and anything bigger than a 10 gallon has the easy flow kit. 
 

I actually find that the air collars pull out more mulm and detritus than just an air stone. I think what you’re seeing is the smaller pore size non Coop sponge is simply collecting the smaller detritus faster, leaving not much for the Coop filter to pull. 
 

Coop sponge is definitely full of bacteria and performing biological filtration, just not much mechanical as the smaller pore size of the other filter is performing that function. I bet if you took out the smaller pore size filter, the Coop will pull smaller detritus as the bigger pores become “clogged”. 
 

Coop is all about Easy, and with the larger size pores that means cleaning the sponge less often. The trade off is it takes more time to be able to pull smaller detritus from the water column as the pores have to get smaller to pull that small detritus. 

the part I underlined makes a lot of sense and the rest of your response response makes sense too! Thanks for the reply!  

On 4/24/2024 at 11:05 AM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

I’ve had 14 tanks for 4 years, and all of them have at least a Coop sponge filter. Larger tanks have additional HOB’s, canisters, or internal filters. 
 

All of my ACO sponges were fitted with air collars upon release, and anything bigger than a 10 gallon has the easy flow kit. 
 

I actually find that the air collars pull out more mulm and detritus than just an air stone. I think what you’re seeing is the smaller pore size non Coop sponge is simply collecting the smaller detritus faster, leaving not much for the Coop filter to pull. 
 

Coop sponge is definitely full of bacteria and performing biological filtration, just not much mechanical as the smaller pore size of the other filter is performing that function. I bet if you took out the smaller pore size filter, the Coop will pull smaller detritus as the bigger pores become “clogged”. 
 

Coop is all about Easy, and with the larger size pores that means cleaning the sponge less often. The trade off is it takes more time to be able to pull smaller detritus from the water column as the pores have to get smaller to pull that small detritus. 

Yes, for my 110 setup I have 2 Aquaclear 110's ready to go and will have the sponge too.

[TOtrees]

Consider the 3 types of filtration that occur in our tanks: mechanical, biological, and chemical. 

Coop sponges, due to their large pore size (counter-intuitively this is represented by low ppi or pores per inch numbers) are not good at mechanical filtration. All but the largest particles of gunk pass right through. Along with small fish and shrimp and snails, FYI. However because the maintain good flow (ie they don't get clogged with debris/mulm) they are good for biological filtration, that is breaking ammonia down to nitrates. 

You'll find varying opinions on this balance, and of course I have mine. I think the coop sponges are too open. I like the Hydro Pro sponges better, and think they hit a better balance between capturing some debris, while still allowing decent flow. But that's an "I" statement, to be sure. And also to be sure, the coop sponges need cleaning/squeezing a lot less, so there's that. 

One option is to run multiple sponges, with varying pore sizes. One with higher ppi for polishing (mechanical) and the coop with low ppi for bacteria. 

[doktor zhivago]

I run a coop sponge for bio but I found it had basically no mechanical filtering. Upside is I basically never clean it and it chugs away just fine. I got a sicce shark internal filter for mechanical filtration with a fine polishing sponge and it seems to do exactly what you were describing where the sicce filter is filled with gunk after a couple weeks and the ac filter is pristine. I find it's easier to clean the internal one cuz it just pops off a magnet and I can wash it out without all the crud getting back into the water like when you try and pick up a sponge filter. 

[gardenman]

I like a finer pore sponge filter. The black gunk that comes out when you clean it is likely nearly all bacteria and likely beneficial bacteria. (Human and animal poop/waste is typically up to 80% bacteria and viruses that got pushed out in the digestive process rather than undigested food.) If you have a sponge filter that's not collecting gunk, it's not building as large a bacterial colony. People say a finer pore sponge filter will clog more, and yes, but the thing clogging it is likely beneficial bacteria and they're still in contact with the water, so they're still doing some good even if the filter is "clogged." Others will disagree, but that works for me. What's clogging a sponge filter? If it's beneficial bacteria, isn't that kind of what we want? Bigger bacterial colonies in contact with the water?

I don't think most sponge filters are great mechanical filters. I've watched small fish food drift past a sponge filter and not move toward it. It's certainly not sucked into the filter. (At least at the flow rate I'm using.) So, if the filter isn't pulling debris from the water, what's clogging it? Likely bacteria. Predatory Fins just released a video of them visiting a Thailand Flowerhorn breeder/seller. The sponge filters in those tanks looked like they'd never been cleaned. You see that quite often with breeders and fish sellers. The filters work well even when "clogged." Maybe they work better when "clogged." I saw a YouTube video several years ago of a guy touring a Japanese koi farm and he was shocked to see the gunk in a filter system they used. He asked how often they clean the filter. The older man guiding him said they never cleaned it. Sometimes gunk if good gunk. 

I typically use multiple sponge filters in a tank and seldom clean them. When I clean one, I ignore the others for a bit. I want as much of the good bacteria as I can get and I'm pretty sure the gunk that comes out is mostly good bacteria. We're told to use that gunk to seed a new tank, so yeah. It's probably good stuff and better left in the tank.

 

[ToddBigEasy]

wow thanks for the replies, they are insightful.  I did not realize that the black "gunk" that comes out of sponges was actually bacteria.  I always assumed that bacteria basically was "clear" and stuck to surfaces.  any more enlightenment?  Maybe I should start a new posts about that!

Thanks again, have a good weekend.

Todd

[johnnyxxl]

What we see is mostly the gunk that house's the bacteria kinda like the plaque on our teeth is housing the bacteria.  My dentist used to call it germ poop