My plan for an RO/DI filter

[jwcarlson]

On 4/4/2024 at 8:33 AM, Cjbear087 said:

How easy / expensive is it to setup a bypass for one specific sink? I imagine ill need a plumber?

Takes about 5 minutes, a $15 Shark Bite fitting from Home Depot, and a short piece of Pex tubing or maybe just another fitting depending on how your sink is plumbed currently.

On 4/3/2024 at 6:35 PM, Cjbear087 said:

I think I’m going to get some discus and a few other fish just not sure yet

I didn't address this earlier, but I do not think you should get discus.  If I'm understanding this correctly, this is your first aquarium?  Discus shouldn't be your first fish.  Get the basics down for a few years before you jump in over your head.

[Tony s]

depends on how handy you are. and they may be able to tap the line before it hits the softener.

the problem I see with any bypass, built-in or added, you lose the convenience of your water heater. you'll be bringing in cold water. I think the best way is to use your built-in bypass at your sink. let it run cold there for a bit, until you hit hard water. say about a minute. and then go ahead and use the hard cold water and the softened hot water to bring it up to temp. even if you're trying to hit 80-degree water, you have probably 50 gallons of hot water to use. and you won't use that much hot vs cold. so, wouldn't worry about a small amount of softened hot.

[Tony s]

On 4/3/2024 at 7:35 PM, Cjbear087 said:

I think I’m going to get some discus and a few other fish just not sure yet

yeah, my wife so wants discus. It's one of 3 fish that I'm scared of even trying. The other's being apistos and german rams. I tried the rams once and failed. still working on solving that issue. almost ready to try again. but discus are on a whole other level. takes a lot to keep their water clean enough. 

[madmark285]

On 4/4/2024 at 9:33 AM, Cjbear087 said:

How easy / expensive is it to setup a bypass for one specific sink?

Hard to say, that could be complicated. Instead of a bypass setup, just run another  pipe/hose connected to your main water line before the water softener. So if your house has a basement and there is a faucet on the main line before the water softener, you could use a garden hose since this is not pressurized 24/7 ie: turn off the faucet after you filled the garbage can. 

Since you plan on using a garbage can, it might be easier to run a hose directly to it. I fill my garbage can with cold water then let a aquarium heater warm it up. 

 

[johnnyxxl]

On 4/4/2024 at 8:52 AM, Tony s said:

@madmark285  nice diagram. That’s one that can easily be done. The two systems I’ve had only had one three position valve though. Much more convenient, and the companies caught on. Because there should be a sediment filter before the softener. Otherwise you fill your softener with gunk. Or your pipes. Nobody said well water was clean🤣  but actually much tastier than bottled. Unless you have sulfur in it. 🤮  thank goodness. None of our houses have any of that. 

I live in SC and have sulfur water, found out with some research it's because of either bacteria or algae in it.  But I don't have any smell or taste surprisingly.  My folks you can taste it.

[Cjbear087]

On 4/4/2024 at 2:45 PM, jwcarlson said:

Takes about 5 minutes, a $15 Shark Bite fitting from Home Depot, and a short piece of Pex tubing or maybe just another fitting depending on how your sink is plumbed currently.

I didn't address this earlier, but I do not think you should get discus.  If I'm understanding this correctly, this is your first aquarium?  Discus shouldn't be your first fish.  Get the basics down for a few years before you jump in over your head.

Oh no I’ve had a tank for about 6 months now and I’ve managed to cure camallanus worms aswell😂 and I’ve been doing constant research so I think I’ll be fine. But yeah with the tubing I don’t need a plumber?

[jwcarlson]

On 4/4/2024 at 9:20 AM, Tony s said:

depends on how handy you are. and they may be able to tap the line before it hits the softener.

the problem I see with any bypass, built-in or added, you lose the convenience of your water heater. you'll be bringing in cold water. I think the best way is to use your built-in bypass at your sink. let it run cold there for a bit, until you hit hard water. say about a minute. and then go ahead and use the hard cold water and the softened hot water to bring it up to temp. even if you're trying to hit 80-degree water, you have probably 50 gallons of hot water to use. and you won't use that much hot vs cold. so, wouldn't worry about a small amount of softened hot.

The problem is that's not consistent water, it might be consistent enough for guppies or even for most other fish, but it might send your discus into a spiral.  My water in the winter comes out of the tap in the upper 40s.  In the summer it might be... 65, maybe?  That's a whole lot different mix of water.  If the water coming in is always fairly similar

 

On 4/4/2024 at 9:59 AM, Cjbear087 said:

Oh no I’ve had a tank for about 6 months now and I’ve managed to cure camallanus worms aswell😂 and I’ve been doing constant research so I think I’ll be fine. But yeah with the tubing I don’t need a plumber?

I'd still highly suggest that you don't get discus, but hey... do whatever makes you happy! 

I wanted discus for 20+ years and have had them for two years.  Kind of wishing I never got them, if I'm being honest, but have done so much work and care for them that I hate the idea of rehoming them.  I don't care how pretty they are, I don't think they're worth the work and there are PLENTY of other fish just as beautiful.  AND I find them to be basically the most boring fish I have behaviorally... by a huge margin.  I think a lot of people (myself included) like the idea of discus more than the actual fish.  If mine spawned or something maybe I'd think differently.  But they just slowly swim back/forth... eat... poop... and get sick/die for seemingly no reason.  Mine haven't ever really even had any sort of aggression at all.  For a few days one of them was staring at the sponge filter lift pipe and then chased the others away gently except one other and I thought they might spawn.  But that stopped after a little bit.  That is the most exciting thing that they've done.  Every other fish I have has more redeeming qualities.  I never find myself losing minutes watching my discus, but I can kind of zone out in front of any of my other fish and not realize how long I've been there.

Edited April 4 by jwcarlson

[Tony s]

On 4/4/2024 at 11:25 AM, jwcarlson said:

The problem is that's not consistent water

yeah. that's true. ours comes from about 125 feet down (they could have stopped at 60 feet for 25 gallon a minute. i had them keep drilling until I got 50 gallon a minute). so it's almost always about 45. so that would be consistent. but everybody's everything is different. and of course.... discus

[Tony s]

On 4/4/2024 at 11:25 AM, jwcarlson said:

but have done so much work and care for them that I hate the idea of rehoming them.

that's kind of a stockholm syndrome thing? maybe better mentally to get some severum and geophagus. plenty of color and activity and tons less work

[Cjbear087]

On 4/4/2024 at 4:25 PM, jwcarlson said:

The problem is that's not consistent water, it might be consistent enough for guppies or even for most other fish, but it might send your discus into a spiral.  My water in the winter comes out of the tap in the upper 40s.  In the summer it might be... 65, maybe?  That's a whole lot different mix of water.  If the water coming in is always fairly similar

 

I'd still highly suggest that you don't get discus, but hey... do whatever makes you happy! 

I wanted discus for 20+ years and have had them for two years.  Kind of wishing I never got them, if I'm being honest, but have done so much work and care for them that I hate the idea of rehoming them.  I don't care how pretty they are, I don't think they're worth the work and there are PLENTY of other fish just as beautiful.  AND I find them to be basically the most boring fish I have behaviorally... by a huge margin.  I think a lot of people (myself included) like the idea of discus more than the actual fish.  If mine spawned or something maybe I'd think differently.  But they just slowly swim back/forth... eat... poop... and get sick/die for seemingly no reason.  Mine haven't ever really even had any sort of aggression at all.  For a few days one of them was staring at the sponge filter lift pipe and then chased the others away gently except one other and I thought they might spawn.  But that stopped after a little bit.  That is the most exciting thing that they've done.  Every other fish I have has more redeeming qualities.  I never find myself losing minutes watching my discus, but I can kind of zone out in front of any of my other fish and not realize how long I've been there.

So if you were looking for the most cost efficient way to get consistent water, what would you do?

[jwcarlson]

On 4/4/2024 at 10:57 AM, Cjbear087 said:

So if you were looking for the most cost efficient way to get consistent water, what would you do?

Bypass your softener to the cold water in your "fish sink".  You'll need to store water most likely, but that doesn't need to be very complicated.  I paid $20-30 for my food safe 63 gallon pickle barrels.  Does take a bit more space.

You could roll the dice and see if your softened water causes a problem, but I don't have a good feel for how likely it is that it will be a problem.  I know some people use it without issue and some people who swear it's terrible.  My tap water pH shifts so much that I have to age my water either way, so it's not a big deal to have those setups.

Someone mentioned this above, but if you have to go play around with 2-3 valves and purge some water and hold your mouth just right in order to get your water for a water change... you will eventually NOT do water changes because of this.  And it will be a problem at some point.  If you're going to undertake something that requires a lot of water changes you should really think as far ahead as you can to make water changes as easily as possible.  For my discus, for example, I have a permanently plumbed line with a Python siphon on the end.  I can start a siphon, clean the bottom in a couple of minutes tops.  And then I let it drain all the way down.  I do not stand there and watch it drain because I've done like 500+ water changes on this tank.  It drains down until all the fish are laying on their side and leaves maybe an inch or a bit more water in the tank.  Then I add my Prime to the tank, go downstairs, flip two valves, and pump the water back up.  This takes about 17 minutes.  I set a timer for 15 minutes to remind me to go back to the tank.  But it's impossible to overfill the tank this way because I always pump all the water out and that fills the tank to about 1/2" from the top.  So worse case I run my pump dry.  I have all the stuff on Kasa WiFi switches, so I can kill the pump from my phone.  Then I go down and drop the fill line from my fish sink into the aging barrel and fill it.  It takes about 22 minutes to fill, so I set my timer for 20 minutes and walk away.  Total "hand time" for a 90% water change on my 75 gallon discus tank is 5-10 minutes.  I do wipe down all the glass once a week or so, so that one takes a little bit longer.  It's not quite an automated water change, but it's fairly close.

[Tony s]

On 4/4/2024 at 11:57 AM, Cjbear087 said:

So if you were looking for the most cost efficient way to get consistent water, what would you do

depends on your well, and how much work you're willing to do. do you know the depth. is it a shallow or deep well. 

 

if you're willing to age your water in a heated tank. then the bypass works fine. just fill your aging tank and heat that. you'd need a pump to move water from that though. and how many gallons of aquariums do you have is a factor as well, if you only have 1 50 gallon tank. or like me, have 250 gallons in 12 tanks. makes a difference.

[Tony s]

On 4/4/2024 at 12:11 PM, jwcarlson said:

I have all the stuff on Kasa WiFi switches

Ya know i can be a bit thick sometimes. i was thinking i needed a remote for a bigger system. i never thought once about the kasa. in my mind that's just for lights. .....

[jwcarlson]

On 4/4/2024 at 11:19 AM, Tony s said:

Ya know i can be a bit thick sometimes. i was thinking i needed a remote for a bigger system. i never thought once about the kasa. in my mind that's just for lights. .....

They're awesome.  The individual cubes and the strips if you have several things you want to switch in the same general area.

[Cjbear087]

On 4/4/2024 at 5:12 PM, Tony s said:

depends on your well, and how much work you're willing to do. do you know the depth. is it a shallow or deep well. 

 

if you're willing to age your water in a heated tank. then the bypass works fine. just fill your aging tank and heat that. you'd need a pump to move water from that though. and how many gallons of aquariums do you have is a factor as well, if you only have 1 50 gallon tank. or like me, have 250 gallons in 12 tanks. makes a difference.

I use city water, not well. Also, am I aging the water with the bypass? How long should I age for?

[Tony s]

On 4/4/2024 at 12:29 PM, Cjbear087 said:

am I aging the water with the bypass

i think less aging. more allowing to come up to temperature. bypass would be cold water

[jwcarlson]

On 4/4/2024 at 11:29 AM, Cjbear087 said:

I use city water, not well. Also, am I aging the water with the bypass? How long should I age for?

You only really "need" to age water if you have a big pH shift.  Check your pH right out of the tap.  Run in for a couple minutes to make sure it's "fresh".  Then take that same cup of water and leave it out overnight with an airstone bubbling in it.  Check the pH.  If the shift is more than 0.5 either up or down (I think half a point is the suggested shift), you should probably age your water.  Especially if you're doing large water changes.  

The only other reason to age is to pre-heat.  You can "age" chlorine out, but some municipalities go between chlorine and chloramine so you shouldn't rely on aging to remove chlorine or chloramine.

[Cjbear087]

On 4/4/2024 at 5:32 PM, Tony s said:

i think less aging. more allowing to come up to temperature. bypass would be cold water

But if I’m using a heater then I don’t need to do that right? Just fill up with bypass, heat until needed and then put in tank

[Tony s]

On 4/4/2024 at 12:34 PM, Cjbear087 said:

But if I’m using a heater then I don’t need to do that right?

correct. bypass and just heat. then use

and dechlorinate

Edited April 4 by Tony s

[Tony s]

and it might be interesting to see what @jwcarlson said. your water might change more than you think

[jwcarlson]

On 4/4/2024 at 11:34 AM, Cjbear087 said:

But if I’m using a heater then I don’t need to do that right? Just fill up with bypass, heat until needed and then put in tank

Your water goes through your softener and into your hot water heater.  So you can bypass the cold water, but not the hot water as it is downstream of the softener.  You'd need either a separate water heater or an aging setup to bring it up to temperature.

Unless you mean that you have a heater in your tank or barrel.  Then yes, you can just heat it and pump it into the tank.  That said, if you have 50 degree water you want to get to 80 degrees for a water change, you're going to be waiting awhile.  It takes about 10 hours for my barrel to go from ~60 degrees to 82.  

Your tank can certainly handle some cold water without big issues.  But I don't know what that limit is.  I have no problem dumping a 5 gallon bucket of 50 degree water into an 82 degree 125 gallon tank.  But you don't want to do that in a 10 gallon because you're going to do some damage to your fish.  This, of course, depends on how big of water changes you're doing.  If all you're ever going to do is a 5 or 10% water change, you can probably do just about anything and it would be OK.  Personally, if I'm going to do a water change, it's going to be a big one.  And for discus it should be.

Edited April 4 by jwcarlson

[madmark285]

On 4/4/2024 at 11:57 AM, Cjbear087 said:

So if you were looking for the most cost efficient way to get consistent water, what would you do?

Behind the garbage can, I would make an opening in the wall and drill a hole thru the floor to the basement. I would buy a 50' hose for portable water and run it thru the hole and connect it to a faucet before the water softener. If i needed a RODI system, I would put it in the basement and buy a float value to shut off the water when filled.

Hopefully I have enough hose left over, connect that to the pump for refilling the tanks.

On aging the water if needed, just fill up the garbage can right after you emptied it. I turn the heater on the day before I make water changes. 

 

[Cjbear087]

On 4/4/2024 at 6:27 PM, jwcarlson said:

Your water goes through your softener and into your hot water heater.  So you can bypass the cold water, but not the hot water as it is downstream of the softener.  You'd need either a separate water heater or an aging setup to bring it up to temperature.

Unless you mean that you have a heater in your tank or barrel.  Then yes, you can just heat it and pump it into the tank.  That said, if you have 50 degree water you want to get to 80 degrees for a water change, you're going to be waiting awhile.  It takes about 10 hours for my barrel to go from ~60 degrees to 82.  

Your tank can certainly handle some cold water without big issues.  But I don't know what that limit is.  I have no problem dumping a 5 gallon bucket of 50 degree water into an 82 degree 125 gallon tank.  But you don't want to do that in a 10 gallon because you're going to do some damage to your fish.  This, of course, depends on how big of water changes you're doing.  If all you're ever going to do is a 5 or 10% water change, you can probably do just about anything and it would be OK.  Personally, if I'm going to do a water change, it's going to be a big one.  And for discus it should be.

Yep. I’m aware you should do 50% wcs daily for discus until they are grown to make sure you don’t stunt their growth, so what I would do is fill up a brute heat it overnight the night before a water change, next day take heater out and just pump water into aquarium, that would work right?

[jwcarlson]

On 4/4/2024 at 12:57 PM, Cjbear087 said:

Yep. I’m aware you should do 50% wcs daily for discus until they are grown to make sure you don’t stunt their growth, so what I would do is fill up a brute heat it overnight the night before a water change, next day take heater out and just pump water into aquarium, that would work right?

Absolutely.  I'd add that you also want to aerate it (just an airstone in the bottom) and dechlorinate it.  You can put the decholorinator into the main tank and pump the water in that way.  I typically do not put dechlorinator in the barrels because then they tend to get a little slimy.

 

Most of the other discussion above is aimed at making sure it's a sustainable system for you because after your 700th water change on the same fish you're going to be glad that you streamlined the process. 🙂

Edited April 4 by jwcarlson

[madmark285]

On 4/4/2024 at 1:57 PM, Cjbear087 said:

Yep. I’m aware you should do 50% wcs daily for discus

You might need 2 garbage cans 🙂 I think your Discus tank will be a success,  you are doing your homework and seeking advice. 

What filter are you going to use? No clue if this is any good but the Penn-Plax Cascade 1200  Canister Filter is on sale for $130. You could get 2 of those for the price of a Fluval FX filter.