Help me understand low tech lightning

[EggShappedFish]

TL;DR

Is 4000 kelvin regular light the same as 4000 kelvin plant light?

Explanation

So, I keep goldfish, and no plants, or at least plants that don't really need light (anubias and plan on some Elodea densa in the future). This means that lights are mainly used for lighting the tank up and to make it look pretty.

I have a pretty large open top tank, and have placed 3 large regular lamps on top of it, so that I can use regular LED light pulps for light.

MY DILEMMA:

I have up to now, used plant lights form IKEA called VÄXER . They are pretty strong LED lights, designed to make plants grow. 3 of these, lit the tank up quite well, even though they each were at approx 850 lumen. The light was at 4000kelvin.

Although the tank looked nice, I eventually ended up having algae issues. This is not because of nitrates though. I have super effective filtration, that keeps ammonia and nitrites at 0 and i do weekly water changes to keep nitrates bellow 20. That said, I have a suspicion that it may be due to phosphates and silicates. I have not installed SEACHEM phosguard and expect there should be no issues any more

Nonetheless, I thought running plant lights on a tank with no plants may be risky. So i got a few new pulps to try out. I now have 2 sets of 3. They are both at 2400 kelvin (warm white) where the first set is at 820 lumen, and the other is at 1500 lumen.
To be fair, I can not tell the difference between the two, but they both look terribly yellow. I will not be using them, but should i go back to the plant light, or should i get some other pulps with similar kelvin temperature, but that are not plant lights?

[knee]

Lumens and light temps aren’t really the factors that you need to look for when growing plants. It’s PAR that grows plants and algae. Any light no matter the color/temp will have PAR values. 
 

You grew algae because you have enough PAR with three plant lights and no plants to compete with algae for nutrients. You can remove the algae manually and raise your light to reduce PAR. If raising the light isn’t an option, you can also dim the lights if possible or use floating plants. 

[EggShappedFish]

On 3/1/2024 at 10:03 PM, knee said:

Lumens and light temps aren’t really the factors that you need to look for when growing plants. It’s PAR that grows plants and algae. Any light no matter the color/temp will have PAR values. 
 

You grew algae because you have enough PAR with three plant lights and no plants to compete with algae for nutrients. You can remove the algae manually and raise your light to reduce PAR. If raising the light isn’t an option, you can also dim the lights if possible or use floating plants. 

So if I get lights that have the same kelvin value as the plant light, bus is not plant light (just regular led of similar kelvin value) can I then assume that it will have less PAR and therefore less chances of algae growing?

[knee]

On 3/1/2024 at 1:10 PM, EggShappedFish said:

So if I get lights that have the same kelvin value as the plant light, bus is not plant light (just regular led of similar kelvin value) can I then assume that it will have less PAR and therefore less chances of algae growing?

You could but we won’t really know unless they put PAR values on the light or we check ourselves with a PAR meter.  I’ve grown plants with regular cfl bulbs as well and those were just meant for indoor lighting. I would assume that lights specifically made for aquatic plants can penetrate the water better than regular lights but don’t quote me on that 😂

 

Do you have the lights directly on the tank lid? 

[EggShappedFish]

On 3/1/2024 at 10:16 PM, knee said:

You could but we won’t really know unless they put PAR values on the light or we check ourselves with a PAR meter.  I’ve grown plants with regular cfl bulbs as well and those were just meant for indoor lighting. I would assume that lights specifically made for aquatic plants can penetrate the water better than regular lights but don’t quote me on that 😂

 

Do you have the lights directly on the tank lid? 

They hang on chains and in use hooks to vary the length of said chain. I have had them hover right over the water surface as well as 70cm above it. This had no note worthy difference though.

[knee]

On 3/1/2024 at 1:22 PM, EggShappedFish said:

They hang on chains and in use hooks to vary the length of said chain. I have had them hover right over the water surface as well as 70cm above it. This had no note worthy difference though.

Raising the lights will lower the PAR values on substrate and will reduce algae issues. Reducing the time the light is on also helps. 

[EggShappedFish]

On 3/2/2024 at 12:21 AM, knee said:

Raising the lights will lower the PAR values on substrate and will reduce algae issues

Yeah. It should but it didn't really change anything for me.

[knee]

On 3/1/2024 at 3:59 PM, EggShappedFish said:

Yeah. It should but it didn't really change anything for me.

Then you need to raise them higher or reduce the amount of light. You mentioned you had three, maybe try running two instead. Another option is to use lids that are more opaque to lessen the light getting in the tank. 

 

[Tanked]

On 3/1/2024 at 3:26 PM, EggShappedFish said:

Is 4000 kelvin regular light the same as 4000 kelvin plant light?

A 4000K plant light produces light in wavelengths that closely mimics sunlight.  For general lighting a plant light is not needed, and it may help with algae growth.  I would start with @knee's suggestions. 

If you don't like the warm "terribly yellow" look, you need move  up to 5000K-6000K , Bright- Daylight.  

[EggShappedFish]

On 3/2/2024 at 5:01 PM, Tanked said:

A 4000K plant light produces light in wavelengths that closely mimics sunlight.  For general lighting a plant light is not needed, and it may help with algae growth.  I would start with @knee's suggestions. 

If you don't like the warm "terribly yellow" look, you need move  up to 5000K-6000K , Bright- Daylight.  

Thanks.
So the plant light that I have, has 5000K but I was wondering if a regular pulp that is not specifically made for plants, that also has 5000K would be the same or maybe less angled towards making things grow

[Tanked]

On 3/3/2024 at 4:47 AM, EggShappedFish said:

Thanks.
So the plant light that I have, has 5000K but I was wondering if a regular pulp that is not specifically made for plants, that also has 5000K would be the same or maybe less angled towards making things grow

It would be less, but it will still grow less demanding plants and algae.  Simply put, you are providing too much of a good thing.

Plants, and most algae require sunlight for photosynthesis as well as nutrients. If you have a lot of light and nutrients, and have only a few slow growing plants, there isn't any competition for food.  The algae will get it first.  It sounds very much like you are providing a high light environment for a few plants that do well in low light.  Your goal is to strike a balance. 

If you haven't yet, buy a timer. The purpose of the light is to make the aquarium appealing to you, and/or to grow plants. The fish don't require that much extra light. Set the timer for when you are most likely in the room with the fish. Start with 7 hours max.  Timers with multiple settings allow you to turn the lights off when you are away.

Elodia and Hornwort are fast growing, and will block some of the light as well as consume a lot of the Nitrates etc. produced by the goldfish.  Other floating plants will help as well.  I have no idea which plants are goldfish proof. 

Fish don't have to eat every day. Like most of us you might be over feeding, which means the fish are producing to much plant food.  You can also skip a day occasionally.

I hope some of this is helpful.  Post a picture if you can.  Some of us may have more ideas.

[EggShappedFish]

On 3/3/2024 at 5:07 PM, Tanked said:

I hope some of this is helpful.  Post a picture if you can.  Some of us may have more ideas.

Yes, it is true. I have too much light on, for too long. This is mainly because I am at home most of the time and enjoy watching the tank at all times!

This is the setup as it was, when I had algae issues:

It was mainly slow growing plants (anubias and cryptocoryne aponogetifolia) and a whole lot of plants growing off the top. Filtration was extreme, mainly because "goldfish" but only regula biologican filtration (no carbon and no phosphate/silicate filtration)

My current setup:

I have improved the filter, so that it looks better (no more sewage pipes) and it is even more efficient. Also, I have added phosguard to regulate phosphates and silicates, and plan on adding some activated carbon.  I do water changes every 7-10 days but the nitrates stay bellow around 10. Some times they accumulate to 20 if i have experimented with some food that is more messy than normal

You may be able to see that the outer ligts are plant lights (5000k) and the middle one is a regular 2400k light.

I suspect that my initial issue was too high silicates and phosphates. I also suspect the sand to be the cause of especially the high silicates, as it was some sand that I got for free with a tank. Now i am filtering for both, and will keep an eye out for algae again. I used to have issues with diatom algae and later black beard algae.

 

Edited March 3 by EggShappedFish
added info about previous algae issues

[Tanked]

I didn't realize we were talking about anything that large😲.  Now I know why you have 3 lights. 

It is easy to see the difference in the lights. My first DIY LED lights were  two 4000K flood lights. Everything was brightly lit and very yellow. The Anubia, Elodea, Hornwort all grew.  Later I added a 6000K bulb.  The aquarium looked better, but the plants did not improve that much, and there was a lot more algae. As soon as the Coop plant light became available, I switched, and while I still have some algae issues, I am growing some plants that did not grow for me before.  ...with less light, but better light.  As your primary interest is illuminating the fish, plant bulbs and non-plant bulbs are pretty close to the same.  A plant bulb might provide slightly better coloration and cost more. 

I like both of the setups.  A lot of interesting ideas there. Were the 'sewage pipes' the entire filtration system? I've used them for pleco caves, but mine aren't tall enough to use as above water planters.  The pieces of channel supporting the plants in the first picture are an idea that I might borrow.  I have a Pothos floating on a raft. When the water level drops during water changes, the Pothos drifts to somewhere else in the aquarium, and usually flips over.

[EggShappedFish]

On 3/4/2024 at 6:05 PM, Tanked said:

Were the 'sewage pipes' the entire filtration system?

Yes. The 9 pipes were either filled with filter sponges or bio filter media depending on what direction the water went. It was quite efficient and the plants grew pretty well!

I am pretty sure that I'll come up with some new way of growing plants in it. I am considering grow in elodea in trays at the surface so that the fish don't eat them