URGENT: Red spots on guppy during quarantine, Deformed spine white cloud

[MidnightBel]

Yellow male guppy developed red spots today. He is on day 6 of quarantine with med trio. He is the only one in the tank with it. Currently being quarantined with 5 zebra danios, and another male guppy. I forgot to not feed them the first 4 days, so it is only day 5 that they didn't eat. I had planned to not feed them, but worried they would get nippy so gave them only a small bit, and then forgot to stop giving them any when I took the fry out. The yellow guppy was always a bit more shy and slower to eat, though both guppies were terribly slow compared to the zebra danios. However they became sluggish and extremely less active by day 2 of quarantine so I had doubts they would make it through. Now they have red spots that developed either today or some time yesterday. I believe they also have a bit of a bloated belly. Oddly enough their activity is more active today, which I haven't seen since the first day. There is a bit of red around gills of 2 of the zebra danios, but I suspect it is from the ammonia.

The petsmart near me also gave us a deformed white cloud minnow that my mom and I couldn't bare to see be culled, and 2 baby guppies. The white cloud was given before we got any other fish and was with us for an additional few days. Bend seemed a bit worse when I brought him home, but wasn't sure if I was seeing things. A local fish owner and the store employee said they get ones from time to time with bends like that and was told it was most likely genetics. After keeping the white cloud alone for 5 days, I moved the baby guppies on day 2 of their quarantine to him since the white cloud has stunted growth and the zebras were getting nippy. This is when I started feeding white cloud and kept on feeding until day 5. Based on the activity level and normal actions of the white cloud, plus the way the spine deformed, and the opinion of a local fish keeper, I figured the deformity was from birth. I did get the guppy fry for free, and they were going to be left in with the guppies to be eaten up like the rest of their siblings, so I figured it was a better shot than leaving them with the zebra danios and guppies who were getting hungry. I had planned to get a divider to put them back in with group, but I was so busy with appointments this week and health, it slipped my mind. Also after guppy fry were moved in with the white cloud Little sort of light brown or clear stringy poop (hard to tell because indian almond leaf) appeared and by today it is everywhere. *after taking a poop out of tank it looks more clear or white* Guppies and white cloud still acting normal. Bend seems worse potentially from when I first got white cloud. Also a bit of bloat? Both are new to after adding guppy fry.

I knew the trouble I'd be unboxing going to a chain store, but a bleeding heart and wanting to get my old 2 year tank with stock finally got the better of me. Before I go any further, I'd like to say I plan to buy from a local fish store recommended in my area from now on. Recommended by a local fish facebook group. They are the only locals that I have gone to that didn't have dead fish in the tanks. (Local petsmart, petco, and most local stores are just as bad. Petco had an amazing person working there 2 years ago taking amazing care of their tanks, but they are no longer there). Glad to find a new LFS near me.

 

Time for the two tank breakdowns.

10 gallon: Guppy & Zebras

Kept at 75.6-79° F with an airstone (the heater is preprogramed and I can't change it so at night it gets cooler). 

Ammonia: 0.6 ppm

Nitrites: 0ppm

Nitrates: 2ppm 

pH: 6.6

Kh: 1 drop very faded

Gh: 4 drops, maybe 3 hard to tell. Also faded

 

10 Gallon: White Cloud & Guppy Fry

Kept at 73.6-74F° with an airstone and 1 indian almond leaf

Ammonia: 0.15ppm

Nitrites: 0ppm

Nitrates: 1ppm

pH: 6.7

Kh:  1 drop faded 

GH:  2 drops faded

 

For reference I have 0.25ppm ammonia out of tap. Also I have aquarium salt, kanoplex, metroplex, focus, & the med trio on hand. I can stop at the LFS later today to see if they have anything else I might need to pick up. I also have crushed coral on hand if my low kh is a concern. 

Do I restart the quarantine with no eating because I forgot? Also doing a water change now on the zebra danios & Guppy tank. Add salt? New meds? New treatment plan? 

I seriously tried my best to get pictures of both as best I could. Thank you so much for all the help. 😭🙏

[MidnightBel]

Forgot to add the 2 guppies (sold as male. I planned to get more later for a different tank if both made it through quarantine) have been staying at each other's side. The blue seems to face off sometimes with the yellow instigating or follows closely bugging them. Another reason I had hoped to get more, but didn't want to quarantine more in this tank. I initially planned to get female guppies or a single male for now, but mom fell in love with the yellow one.

[Colu]

I think your water parameters are the cause your pH is to low for guppies 7-7.5 is beat your KH GH are to low that can lead to a lot of health problems with Guppies they can essentially start to fall apart due to lack of minerals and the small amount of ammonia you have could have caused the Redding you want a KH between 4-8 and a GH of 6-8 what i would do is add crushed coral to your substrate or in media bag in your filter you need 1 pound of crushed coral per gallon to raise your KH and GH you could also add some wonder shell in the short term to add some extra minerals till you can increase your KH and GH @MidnightBel

Edited February 17 by Colu

[MidnightBel]

On 2/17/2024 at 6:41 AM, Colu said:

I think your water parameters are the cause your pH is to low for guppies 7-7.5 is beat your KH GH are to low that can lead to a lot of health problems with Guppies they can essentially start to fall apart due to lack of minerals and the small amount of ammonia you have could have caused the Redding you want a KH between 4-8 and a GH of 6-8 what i would do is add crushed coral to your substrate or in media bag in your filter you need 1 pound of crushed coral per gallon to raise your KH and GH you could also add some wonder shell in the short term to add some extra minerals till you can increase your KH and GH @MidnightBel

Thank you so much! I tested the pH from the store when I got them and it was 6.5. Could explain why so many different fish have so many issues in this area at all stores not just chain stores. 🤔 I'm going to add only 2 media bag full for now, since last time I added half of that and it got it up to 7.4 in 2 days. Is the red spots not internal bleeding on the yellow guppy then? Also noticed a bit of a nipped tail on them. That is new too as of today or yesterday. Blue one has been more persistent as of late.

 

Would this also explain the issue with the white cloud? Or white poop from guppy fry? Should I be adding coral to both tubs? 

I don't understand how my water parameters are so low, when my water leaves water stains as if it were hard water. 😫 

Thank you for a quick response and the help. 

 

Edit: I was worried the yellow guppy had internal bleeding from bacteria or parasite issues. 😭

Edited February 17 by MidnightBel

[Colu]

On 2/17/2024 at 11:55 AM, MidnightBel said:

Thank you so much! I tested the pH from the store when I got them and it was 6.5. Could explain why so many different fish have so many issues in this area at all stores not just chain stores. 🤔 I'm going to add only 2 media bag full for now, since last time I added half of that and it got it up to 7.4 in 2 days. Is the red spots not internal bleeding on the yellow guppy then? Also noticed a bit of a nipped tail on them. That is new too as of today or yesterday. Blue one has been more persistent as of late.

 

Would this also explain the issue with the white cloud? Or white poop from guppy fry? Should I be adding coral to both tubs? 

I don't understand how my water parameters are so low, when my water leaves water stains as if it were hard water. 😫 

Thank you for a quick response and the help. 

 

Edit: I was worried the yellow guppy had internal bleeding from bacteria or parasite issues. 😭

If your water parameters are the same in both tubs I would add crushed coral to both of them it's possible your Guppies developed a secondary bacterial infections caused by the low KH GH and ammonia so I would add some aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 3 gallons and do a full course of maracyn that can harm your benefial bacterial lead higher ammonia so I would test daily for ammonia if you get higher reading do a 50% water change and add a double dose of prime to help detoxify any ammonia then add half a packet maracyn to keep the medication at a therapeutic level 

[MidnightBel]

On 2/17/2024 at 7:38 AM, Colu said:

If your water parameters are the same in both tubs I would add crushed coral to both of them it's possible your Guppies developed a secondary bacterial infections caused by the low KH GH and ammonia so I would add some aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 3 gallons and do a full course of maracyn that can harm your benefial bacterial lead higher ammonia so I would test daily for ammonia if you get higher reading do a 50% water change and add a double dose of prime to help detoxify any ammonia then add half a packet maracyn to keep the medication at a therapeutic level 

If they used to be housed together and were purchased from the same store, should I do this treatment for both the tank and the tub? And by full course, do you mean following the box? Thank you! Will add aquarium salt later today. 

[Colu]

On 2/17/2024 at 2:07 PM, MidnightBel said:

If they used to be housed together and were purchased from the same store, should I do this treatment for both the tank and the tub? And by full course, do you mean following the box? Thank you! Will add aquarium salt later today. 

I would only treat the other tub if your seeing symptoms 

[MidnightBel]

Should I be worried about guppy fry having white stringy poop? Or the spine bend on the white cloud minnow? 

Both tank parameters are above in the first post, and so are images of the white minnow.

Thank you for your help.

Edited February 17 by MidnightBel

[Colu]

On 2/17/2024 at 10:42 PM, MidnightBel said:

Should I be worried about guppy fry having white stringy poop? Or the spine bend on the white cloud minnow? 

Both tank parameters are above in the first post, and so are images of the white minnow.

Thank you for your help.

The bent spine could be genetic deformity white stringy poop can be poop with no food in it just the mucus lining if you have noticed rapid breathing hanging out near the surface lethargy spitting food sunken belly then I would treat for parasitic infections 

[MidnightBel]

The guppy fry have only gone without food for 3 days. The white poop was before that point during the time I forgot to stop feeding during quarantine. No rapid breathing, a lot of surface hanging out, but they do sometimes sleep at bottom. Usually they like to be on the floating grass and near a leaf that floats at the top. Other times I see them swimming to me or about. They group together a lot and follow each other then just chill. 

Do I have to worry about them eating anything off the one indian almond leaf in there? I've seen them check it out, and in a diff tank I've seen my betta nibble at it. I get it is probably a silly question though.

Edited February 18 by MidnightBel
Additional details and photo

[Colu]

Fish will eat bio film off of Indian almond leaves looking at the amount of white stringy poop and the fact it was happening before you stopped feeding I would do is treat with paracleanse once every 2 weeks for 3 full course of treatment so you want to treat on week 1 week 3 Week 5 

[MidnightBel]

They are in a medtrio right now. How much water change should I do for this before starting the treatment? Because I'm assuming I shouldn't add it on top of current level right? I had added the aquarium salt to the red spots yellow guppy & zebra tank too, but haven't started treatment yet either. Had to run to the store to get more spring water before doing it and wasn't sure how much water to change for them too. Do I redose the amount of salt as the water taken out as well?

Thank you for the help. 

Edited February 18 by MidnightBel
Adding details.

[Colu]

On 2/18/2024 at 11:13 PM, MidnightBel said:

They are in a medtrio right now. How much water change should I do for this before starting the treatment? Because I'm assuming I shouldn't add it on top of current level right? I had added the aquarium salt to the red spots yellow guppy & zebra tank too, but haven't started treatment yet either. Had to run to the store to get more spring water before doing it and wasn't sure how much water to change for them too. Do I redose the amount of salt as the water taken out as well?

Thank you for the help. 

Do a 50% water change and run active carbon for 24hr to remove any remaining medication before you start treating with paracleanse 

[MidnightBel]

Update:

 

Saddly the yellow guppy has passed today. I knew they didn't look good, and have been off since day one so I was prepared for it. Currently doing the full paraclense treatment. Just confirming again to dose based on box. I took out the filter with carbon since it was easier than disassembling. Should I put it back in? Figured carbon would ruin effect of medicine. I still have 2 airstones in there and a media bag of crushed coral. 

Any suggestions for keeping ammonia levels down? Our tap is 0.4 now, and when we did water change we used 2 of that, and 3 gallons of spring, yet it is already back up to 0.5. Just treat with prime? Stress guard? Fritz ACCR instead of prime?

⭐️ I currently have a bag of Aqua Clear Ammonia Remover (for 20-50 gallons) in the 10 gallon tank. Is this okay to keep in there to help keep ammonia levels down? There is no filter running through it however.  

Should I do a water change tomorrow or wait for 3rd day? And do I re-add aquarium salt for amount taken out?

 

Out of curiosity, after quarantine period is over, do I also disinfect hospital tank's crushed coral with white vinegar & water or bleach? Or do I just toss it. I will most likely need it again in a month since I'll need to finish stocking a 20 gallon, so rather not toss it. If it absolutely needs to be tossed though, that is fine. Should I be tossing filter media from quarantine too & sponges? Or do I disinfect those? I would much rather be safe than sorry as each fish is important to me.

 

Sorry for the long post. Thank you for all the assistance. 🙏

Edited February 21 by MidnightBel
Forgot to include some information

[Colu]

If your going treat with paracleanse follow the instructions on the box you would want to remove active carbon ammonia removing pads you want to have crushed coral in your tanks to keep your KH up if your keeping liverbears it will gradually desolve so you will need to add more in  with ammonia in tap water I would set up a bin or tote with water and a small heater  air stone add prime and  seachems purigen or ammonia removing pads after a couple of your days  ammonia levels will   reduced then do your water change adding lots  live plants and reducing water change will help bring down ammonia every time your doing a water change your adding ammonia back in @MidnightBel

[MidnightBel]

On 2/20/2024 at 9:17 PM, Colu said:

If your going treat with paracleanse follow the instructions on the box you would want to remove active carbon ammonia removing pads you want to have crushed coral in your tanks to keep your KH up if your keeping liverbears.

I do have live bearing fish so I'll keep the crushed coral. I don't have any carbon ammonia pads that would need to be removed, but I do have a zeolite only ammonia media bag in the tank. Would this need to be removed? 

I removed the filter, just don't know if I need to remove this bag I have in the tank.  

[Colu]

Yes you would have to remove zeolite before treating  @MidnightBel

[MidnightBel]

Have been bedbound for a bit after an out of state dr appt trip. I have had the zebra, white cloud, and guppies in paraclense for 9 days.

 

My family was supposed to put the 2nd dose in on day 3, but I had to do it on day 4 after my trip. So DAY 1 first dose of paraclense. DAY 4 2nd dose because I was out of town. It is now DAY 9 water change.

I'm aware I needed to do a 25% change on DAY 5 or in my case DAY 6 because of DAY 4 being 2nd dose of paraclense, but I got sick and couldn't gain the strength to even hold a bucket.

 

My question is, I'm doing a 25% water change right now. How long until I do a second round of treatment. My poor babies have eaten for 9 days so I want to get them some food for a couple days first. If advised otherwise and told to start right away on treatment I will though.

 

So far no additional fish losses. They are very active. The baby guppies are now pooping brown poop again too which is good. 

I'm super worried about Nitrite and ammonia levels so I'm going to do a test now. And will reply with tank parameters. They are probably overdue for a good water change with so many in there. 

Edited March 1 by MidnightBel

[MidnightBel]

My tap water is 0.25 ammonia, so I am planning to use 2 gallons of that, and a gallon of spring for water change.

 

Before water change tank parameters:

Ammonia 0.23-0.25

Nitrite 0

Nitrate 2

Ph 7.5-7.6

Kh 4

Gh 5

 

Massive improvement from the 1 drops kh and 2-3 drops gh with a ph of 6.7

[Colu]

Do your water change add active carbon for 24 -48hr to remove any remaining medication then do your second course two weeks after the first 

 

[MidnightBel]

On 3/1/2024 at 6:46 AM, Colu said:

Do your water change add active carbon for 24 -48hr to remove any remaining medication then do your second course two weeks after the first 

 

So it's okay they have been in there 9 days?

I did a 20% water change 10 hours ago. Should I do more? I can feed them correct? 

 

Thank you for your help. 

[Colu]

Yes you can start to feed I would feed once a day during treatment and a small amount twice a day after you have finished treatment I would do another water change if you have active put some into remove any remaining medication @MidnightBel

 

Edited March 1 by Colu

[MidnightBel]

Okay. I'll be putting in the ammonia remover and active carbon again to remove the medicine. That you for your advice.

 

I can't wait for these guys to be done and to finish adding plants to my 20 gallon for them. It was supposed to be a 10, but I upgraded because of how active the zebras were.