Can different Apistogramma species crossbreed/hybridize if they are from the same lineage?

[Lennie]

Hey guys,

I wonder, Is it possible to keep different apisto species that require similar water paremeter without potential cross breeding? Or better to say, do they crossbreed or not?

More specifically, in my scenario, I currently have 2f:1m Apistogramma Erythruras.  A friend of mine will gift me 1m:1f Apistogramma Cacatuoides quad red. These two seem to share similar parameters from what I see. However, when I check tomc.no, it seems both are from Apistogramma-trifasciata-lineage if I understand correctly. Does that mean same lineage members may potentially breed/hybridize  with each other, like they can in corydoras? If so, how likely?

@anewbie @tolstoy21 any idea guys?

 

 

[tolstoy21]

You know, I don't know the answer to that question.

I was going to reply with an answer, but quickly thought 'What the heck self, you don't know anything apistogramma crossing; don't even pretend you do and risk giving bad advice!"

Wish I could be more helpful,  but alas, can't help ya on this one.

Edited October 8, 2023 by tolstoy21

[Lennie]

On 10/9/2023 at 1:14 AM, tolstoy21 said:

You know, I don't know the answer to that question.

I was going to reply with an answer, but quickly thought 'What the heck self, you don't know anything apistogramma crossing; don't even pretend you do and risk giving bad advice!"

Wish I could be more helpful,  but alas, can't help ya on this one.

All good. Thanks for taking your time to text dude

 

Let's see if anewbie or anyone else have any idea. We can learn together 

[anewbie]

Complex yes - lineage is less likely - I can't remember if group is possible - i.e, it goes lineage -> group -> complex and complex is an almost definite yes. However unless you have a huge aquarium cockatoos can be quite vicious - i'd say you need a min. 4ft x 4ft and probably larger to be safe. Not sure how things would work in a 6ftx18 inch aquarium but in a 29 or 40b forget it - you are likely to end up with dead apisto. To give an example  My d50 (pair) faught with my female nijjensi (solo) like cat and dogs until i removed her in a 40B and the 40B was very well scape with many hiding places. She just didn't want them around and he was bigger than her so eventually she had to back off. 

 

They are in different groups so they are probably ok together (no promises as i forget the exact rules); other than the issue that they will likely kill each other if not in a very large aquarium that is well scaped.

[Lennie]

On 10/9/2023 at 1:33 AM, anewbie said:

Complex yes - lineage is less likely - I can't remember if group is possible - i.e, it goes lineage -> group -> complex and complex is an almost definite yes. However unless you have a huge aquarium cockatoos can be quite vicious - i'd say you need a min. 4ft x 4ft and probably larger to be safe. Not sure how things would work in a 6ftx18 inch aquarium but in a 29 or 40b forget it - you are likely to end up with dead apisto. To give an example  My d50 (pair) faught with my female nijjensi (solo) like cat and dogs until i removed her in a 40B and the 40B was very well scape with many hiding places. She just didn't want them around and he was bigger than her so eventually she had to back off. 

 

They are in different groups so they are probably ok together (no promises as i forget the exact rules); other than the issue that they will likely kill each other if not in a very large aquarium that is well scaped.

The tank is 110x50cm.  Well scaped with big wood and plants. 4 caves around the tank, botanicals and stuff. Lots of rocks and sight blocks too

so 10cm shorter than 4ft. Currently  I have my Erythrura trio there but given the fact that there is so many hiding places, I cant see only 3 fish in such tank size. Especially considering the tank is on the bottom rack.

So either I will take remove the trio and keep both the trio and the new comers in their own smaller tanks, or keep them all in the bigger tank expecting it to be more alive. It feels pretty boring right now. Could be one of the tanks I enjoy the most in the fishroom, but instead, arguably the most boring one right now given the activity level is quite low. They may love it this way but the tank performs no visual. I thought about adding dithers but then, this is supposed to be a breeding project.

[anewbie]

That is a 65 breeder i think - if you are going to put another cichild  in there i'd go with something that prefers the middle/upper region - for dithers you could have a lot of kubotai rasbora and pencil fishes of a species you find appealing. kubotai rasbora are very very active but stay near the upper area of the aquarium (one of my favorite rasbora - sort of like rummynose in behavior but much smaller and not very likely to go after frys - rummies on the other hand would find the frys yummy. I like Nannostomus mortenthaleri but 10-15 of them would set you back a pretty penny. If you have a very tight top you could go with hatchet fishes - have a tiny gap and they will all jump out.

 

[Lennie]

@anewbie This is what the tank looks like when I setted it up. Right now, the crypts in the middle and background plants performed a good growth. It is a custom made so it is a short one which doesnt let the idea of having different swimming levels I believe :

On 10/9/2023 at 2:12 AM, anewbie said:

rummies on the other hand would find the frys yummy.

Oh I can approve. No clue about other fish you recommend but my rummynoses are wild.

[anewbie]

I'm not familiar with Erythruras but cockatoo - esp domestic cockatoo are not peaceful and your tank has too much visibility - having said that you could add them and it might work but if i were betting i think in 30 to 60 days you would wake up one morning and find things didn't work out so well.