Low low ph

[CinGA]

The API test kit only reads down to 6. I am using a digital meter to read the ph. 
 

So ph is 4.6 currently. 
ammonia is 0.5 ppm (remember I’m doing daily big water changes to try and keep it as low as possible)

nitrites zero

nitrates about 10 I think - I haven’t been testing it as much since it’s fairly pointless right now. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by CinGA

[Mmiller2001]

On 6/27/2023 at 1:49 PM, CinGA said:

Still no nitrites so no bacteria growing (not surprising when the ph is below 5).

Again, nitrification continues in very low pH ranges. This is a fact.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1489657/

[CinGA]

On 6/27/2023 at 4:14 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Again, nitrification continues in very low pH ranges. This is a fact.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1489657/

Ok, I admit, I do not understand all of this article. But from what I do understand, it is saying that VERY low levels of nitrifying bacteria may exist in a scientific setup at low ph. That does not necessarily correspond to the existence of sufficient nitrifying bacteria in a closed aquatic system to maintain an adequate bio filter. 
 

My understanding of the science behind bio filters and ph is that the ammonia is converted to ammonium at low ph levels. And the ammonia eating bacteria cannot process ammonium. So it is necessary for the ammonium to convert back to ammonia once at a higher ph to produce enough food for the ammonia eating bacteria to survive and begin building a decent bacterial colony.  I’m not a scientist so I may have misunderstood, but to me, the short answer is that while there may theoretically be some small amounts of beneficial bacterial still existing in my tank with its low ph level, it’s not going to be enough to successfully process the ammonia produced in a stocked aquarium. 

[Mmiller2001]

Just don't get tunnel vision on the pH. It's not stopping the cycle. Did you get the calibration solution yet?

Here's my tank, overstocked with Rainbows, Rasbora and Cherry Shrimp. 0dKH, pH peaks at 4.85 and never rises above pH 6.1.

 

[Mmiller2001]

Here's a good read as well.

https://www.2hraquarist.com/blogs/ph-kh-gh-tds/is-low-ph-in-tanks-due-to-aquasoils-softwater-a-concern?_pos=2&_sid=a2ea9b9f3&_ss=r

[CinGA]

On 6/27/2023 at 5:37 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Just don't get tunnel vision on the pH. It's not stopping the cycle. Did you get the calibration solution yet?

Here's my tank, overstocked with Rainbows, Rasbora and Cherry Shrimp. 0dKH, pH peaks at 4.85 and never rises above pH 6.1.

 

Sigh. I’m jealous. I’ll never have anything that looks that good. But I’ll be happy if I can just get some plants, some shrimp, and a tank that works. 

[Mmiller2001]

On 6/27/2023 at 4:40 PM, CinGA said:

Sigh. I’m jealous. I’ll never have anything that looks that good. But I’ll be happy if I can just get some plants, some shrimp, and a tank that works. 

You'll get there. Just keep doing what your doing for now. 

[tolstoy21]

On 6/27/2023 at 4:14 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Again, nitrification continues in very low pH ranges. This is a fact.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1489657/

Agreed.

Ammonia is processed differently low Ph environments. There is still a biofilter, it's just different.

Never thought I would quote Chewy.com, but --

Quote

Lower pH levels will have a higher concentration of ammonium, and higher pH levels will have higher concentration of ammonia. The concentration levels are directly proportional to the pH. As the pH rises, the concentration (toxicity) of the ammonia also increases. When the pH level increases above 9, most of the ammonium in the water is converted into toxic ammonia (NH3), which can kill fish. These levels can also cause gill and kidney damage, impaired growth, and decreased resistance to disease.

The Role of pH In The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle

[tolstoy21]

In my experience, the lack of Kh results in an ever dropping Ph due to things that acidify the water, like decaying plant matter, fish waste, CO2 etc.

The problem with using straight RO water in an already acidic environment is that it quickly becomes acidic itself due to the lack of a buffer.

I have no Kh in my tap (well) water, so I stabilize the Ph through frequent water changes. My tanks are all on a drip system so they constantly get a fresh supply of water.

This keeps my Ph around 6 - 6.4 long term.

My TDS, unfortunately, is about 300ppm due to a high Gh (around 8 - 9 dGh). 

Because of this, I only keep fish that like a low Ph, most South American fish.

Sometimes the high Gh is problematic for certain species, and this is when I cut the water with RO. But I only do this in breeding setups.

For caridina shrimp, I use RO remineralized with salty shrimp Gh+ and a buffering substrate. I've raised 1000's of crystal reds this way. Believe it or not, my crystal shrimp will live quite happily in my well water with a super high Gh, but I have never experimented with trying to breed them in it.

[tolstoy21]

On 6/26/2023 at 11:39 AM, CinGA said:

I decided I wanted to try my hand at caradina shrimp,

RO water, a buffering substrate and Salty Shrimp Gh+ mixed into the water according to instructions is almost bullet proof for keeping most caridina shrimp in my experience. Sure they can probably also live in some people's tap water, but that trifecta of products works amazingly well. So well that I won't even try anything else.

[CinGA]

On 6/27/2023 at 8:45 PM, tolstoy21 said:

RO water, a buffering substrate and Salty Shrimp Gh+ mixed into the water according to instructions is almost bullet proof for keeping most caridina shrimp in my experience. Sure they can probably also live in some people's tap water, but that trifecta of products works amazingly well. So well that I won't even try anything else.

Well, I have all those things now finally so if I can just get rid of the ammonia in the tank, it should hopefully be safe for the shrimp. 

On 6/27/2023 at 8:39 PM, tolstoy21 said:

 

In my experience, the lack of Kh results in an ever dropping Ph due to things that acidify the water, like decaying plant matter, fish waste, CO2 etc.

The problem with using straight RO water in an already acidic environment is that it quickly becomes acidic itself due to the lack of a buffer.

 

I do have the buffering substrate now but are you suggesting I’d be better off switching to tap until my tank straightens out? (My tap isn’t much better - it also has a really low KH).  I have to keep crushed coral in my filter to raise neocaradina shrimp - my tap isn’t good enough for them either. 

[tolstoy21]

Just start mixing your RO with Salty Shrimp Gh+ and change out a portion of the existing tank water every day or so until you hit the target of low to mid 6's, or high 5's. From there to a 25% water change every week or two (or more depending on your situation) from that point forward.

I find that when adding new shrimp to my water, some can't make the transition and do die. But my goal is to have them get to the point that they make babies. The babies raised in your specific water will have a very high survival rate (well those that reach adulthood), and their children will do even better in your specific water until it becomes their natural environment. But this also assumes your water somewhere close to what they like. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by tolstoy21

[CinGA]

Ok that’s what I’ve been doing for the last week so I’ll keep on with it I guess. Hopefully the oh will move eventually. (Hasn’t yet I think but I just got the calibration solutions tonight to make sure I’m getting accurate readings so I’ll know for sure tomorrow). 

[CinGA]

Just as a note, recalibrated my meter this morning and retested - 4.7 ph.  So, yes, it is still pretty low.  I didn't get a chance to change the water yesterday because my water pump gave up the ghost, so we'll see how it does today.  I'm also getting my new plants for it in today, so I'll plant those and change the water all at once.