Are Borelli and Cockatoo apisto compatible with a BN pleco in a 75 gallon?

[Lavender]

So, I’m planning my 75. Most of it is basically finished, but I am wondering about this. I’ve already planned it to be mostly with Amazon species, have tetras up top/middle, cory catfish, otos, and kuhlI loaches on the bottom (yes, I know kuhli’s aren’t amazonian: I just like them). The centerpiece is supposed to be two trios of apistogramma. I plan to add borelli first, and if that goes well, to add cockatoo apisto. However, one of the big things I want in this tank is a lemon blue-eyed bristlenose pleco. Will breeding apistos hurt my pleco? I don’t care about or want fry, I just want my fish to stay unharmed.

Edited June 13, 2023 by OrangeBlossom

[NOLANANO]

in my experience, the Borelli will get bullied into hiding and starve to death if kept with a Cockatoo in a 75G. BUT each fish does have its own personality so if you luck out and have a boisterous Borelli and a chill Cockatoo maybe it could work. If I were a betting man, I would say the Borelli will most likely die and if not, would still be hiding the majority of the time.

The bristlenose shouldn't be an issue with either species.

Edited June 13, 2023 by NOLANANO

[Lavender]

Aw, dang it. I saw a lot of people on another forum keeping them together…Is there another apistogramma that matches the temperament of either species I could keep? I’m eyeing Panduro and Macmasteri.

Good news on the BN: was slightly worried. Someone made a post saying that apistos would occasionally peck BN’s eyes out, but all the examples I could find were in small 20-30 gallons.

Edited June 13, 2023 by OrangeBlossom

[NOLANANO]

I think Macmasteri or trifaciatta would be a closer match size and aggression wise to the Cackatoo. I am by no means an apisto expert so feel free to give it a try, I just didn't have any luck with a Borelli and a Macmasteri in a 75G heavily planted tank and a Cackatoo is similar in size to a Macmasteri.  It really comes down to individual fish personalities with dwarf cichlids.

Only other criticism of your plan would be to add the territorial fish (Apistos) at the same time. If you stagger their entrance to the tank, the first fish will view the second fish as an intruder to its territory (your tank).  If you add them at the same time, they will (hopefully) divide the tank into territories and defend their space. The only way this works is if the 2 or 3 fish are similar enough in size and aggression to fend each other off but not overly dominate the others. Sure, one will always be the most dominant but the key is to have the other fish fight back enough to lay claim to an area and have the alpha concede that area to them.

 

my LFS claims that they will be getting a bigger selection of Apistos so I may try to mix and match like you are trying to do in my 75G soon.  previously, the LFS would get one species of Apisto for a week every 3 or 4 months and you kind of get what you get. Now they claim they will have a rack set up just for Apistos and will have a larger selection. We will see if this comes to fruition.

[Lavender]

I think it’s enough space for two apisto species as long as they both have plenty of girls. I mean, I am trying to leave room for my bottomfeeders, but it doesn’t seem like the apistos claim very large territories. I’m thinking I’ll put about 13 coconut half-shells into the tank, make Java moss grow over them, and get a nice effect and a breeding cave.

I think I’ll go with a macmasteri. Borelli are nice, but I don’t think I’m going to try a risky pairing for my first tank, and I already have a very nice school of cardinal tetras in the stocking.

Yeah, I probably should add them at the same time. I’m just worried about the prospect of quarantining them together. I’m a newbie to dwarf cichlids, so correct me if I’m wrong, but I can fit roughly six of the apistos, right? One boy of each species and two girls? Neither of these species seem to be terribly aggressive from what I’ve read, so I think they should be alright in a regular community tank.

Im also considering a pair of Bolivian rams instead of the Macmasteri, but that seems like it would push it a lot more than a second apisto species.

Ooh, a rack of apistos? Lucky. My closest good one is mostly saltwater stuff and…glofish, for some reason. I’m probably going to have to order almost everything I get online.

Edited June 13, 2023 by OrangeBlossom

[anewbie]

First - if keeping two species - just males no females - chances are better; if you add females stick to one species. Likewise with bn - no female cockatoo or borelli. Cockatoo males can be quite territorial and nasty but one never knows for sure - borelli are more passive but also a smaller fish - and can't defend itself from larger species. macs are much larger - not sure about aggressiveness. Trifs are one of the more aggressive species and while quite nice looking i definitely would not mix them with other species nor would i have multiple males together. 

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[Lavender]

I like the idea of single males (Don’t want them to have kids, although it is quite fun to watch them with fry), but isn’t that cruel to the fish?

I guess I’ll nix the pleco if he’s a problem. Can always get another tank. Can I do two separate harems of cockatoo of different color variations? Or a single harem of borelli? 

Edited June 14, 2023 by OrangeBlossom

[anewbie]

You can do two harem of cockatoo or two harem of borelli IF the tank is properly scaped to establish clear territories. Btw what you think is 'clear' is not necessarily what the fishes think is clear. Borelli colony are more common as they are more passive. 

As to being 'cruel' to the fish; no more so then keeping them in glass cages.

[NOLANANO]

On 6/13/2023 at 4:29 PM, anewbie said:

First - if keeping two species - just males no females - chances are better; 

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I second this. Bachelor pad. No females. If you want females, get 2 males of the same species and 4-5 females.

[Lavender]

I think I’ll do a really big harem of borelli. That seems better for all fish involved.

Either that, or I’ll look into Bolivian Rams.

Edited June 15, 2023 by OrangeBlossom

[J. Holmes]

On 6/13/2023 at 5:29 PM, anewbie said:

First - if keeping two species - just males no females - chances are better; if you add females stick to one species. Likewise with bn - no female cockatoo or borelli. Cockatoo males can be quite territorial and nasty but one never knows for sure - borelli are more passive but also a smaller fish - and can't defend itself from larger species. macs are much larger - not sure about aggressiveness. Trifs are one of the more aggressive species and while quite nice looking i definitely would not mix them with other species nor would i have multiple males together. 

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How big is your tank and how many males? I was watching a Co-op video where he said keeping males together without females would result in fights. Ide love to keep 2/3 males together but only have a 40 gallon tank. 

[anewbie]

borelli are generally passive but i've seen some cockatoo get pretty aggressive even if no females and they are much larger than borelli....