Found a Big Mystery Snail Clutch This Morning

[Stef]

Hi All. Found my first snail clutch today. I was a little late topping off water and guess that did it. I’d like to try raising them but the clutch is in my 6 gal betta tank on my kitchen counter and is one of my best scaped tanks. 

So my options are another 6 gallon where I could relocate that tank’s betta.  Since the tank lid the clutch is on and this other 6 gal are the same, I could just swap lids and let nature take its course - with some supervision. I was going to rescape it soon anyway. The other option is a 10 gallon that only has a BN Pleco and another mystery snail and ramshorns. With the 10 gal, I could move the Pleco to my patio pond and then float the incubator. 

Is a 6 gallon too small?

Is a BN Pleco going to eat snail babies?

is the lid the clutch on too wet/humid?

 

[Guppysnail]

Congratulations. Yes the 6 gallon is too small. They need lots of powder foods at first which mess up the water. 
 

It is very possible your pleco will eat the new hatch babies. Anything that fits in the pleco mouth is fair game.  And yes the lid is too humid.  You have good instincts in questioning these three things. 
 

Looking forward to seeing all your new snabies 🥰
 

 

[Stef]

Thanks @Guppysnail  I can incubate in another tank for the time being, but for raising them, since it’s going to get messy,  is a new 10 gallon heated with a seasoned sponge filter sufficient? I’d keep it bare bottomed, with lid, a catappa leaf or two. I have powdered foods when they hatch. Just worrying about cycling issues with a new tank, but a seasoned sponge filter should technically alleviate that, right?  

I was also looking for the forum post from a year or so ago from another member raising snabies (love this term) for the first time. It had a ton of good instruction and pics of the clutch as it progressed. Do you know how to find it?
 

 

[Guppysnail]

Yes a seasoned sponge will jump start it enough. Just watch parameters and do extra water changes it will be fine. I do it all the time. @Chick-In-Of-TheSea is the one with all the care instructions in their mystery snail eggs and inverts journal also signature links with care sheets. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Links! 👇

[Stef]

Thanks @Guppysnail and @Chick-In-Of-TheSea  Looking forward to this breeding experiment.
 

The parents:

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/12/2023 at 10:34 AM, Stef said:

Thanks @Guppysnail and @Chick-In-Of-TheSea  Looking forward to this breeding experiment.
 

The parents:

Oh, I'm so excited. Those are the 2 colors I have in my tank as well, so I'm looking forward to seeing what the genetics yield.  And the little shrimplet, oh my goodness, so cute.

[Cinnebuns]

On 6/12/2023 at 9:34 AM, Stef said:

Thanks @Guppysnail and @Chick-In-Of-TheSea  Looking forward to this breeding experiment.
 

The parents:

Is that magenta and jade or gold?

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea this may interest you too. 

Here's a chart of their genetics. There are 3 traits that determine their color. A is foot color with dark being dominant. Y is the base color. S is stripes or not with having stripes being dominant. 

 

Without knowing each snails parents and grandparents it's hard to say if they carry recessives or not. Assuming that is a jade, if they both carry recessives then you have the possibility of literally every color possible. A rainbow clutch!  Of course we can't be certain if they actually do carry the recessives or not. If I at least knew their parents I could take an educated guess as to the most likely colors. Genetics aren't perfect though and there's no guarantees. Let's cross our fingers that they both carry recessives and you will get literally every color to pop out!!!

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

I’ve seen you post that before @Cinnebuns, I just always lose it. 😂

I just uploaded it to files so I know where it’s at.

[Stef]

@Cinnebuns the larger snail is a regular chestnut. I think the lighting gave off some purple/magenta sitting under the tiger lotus plant.
 

Here’s some other pictures of same snail and the dad. I think he’s a blue. 
 

How do they pull off their balancing act?😄

 

Hoping the clutch is viable. Seems to be ok in incubation. No major changes other than turning darker pinkish color. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/14/2023 at 8:25 AM, Stef said:

Hoping the clutch is viable. Seems to be ok in incubation. No major changes other than turning darker pinkish color.

It should go to like a dark gold color, which is what it looks like now in your photo, then over time the clutch will have various colors.  Some say clutches can get a moldy color, that's because dark shells will start to be visible through the eggs, but I never experienced that because all my snails were gold.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Cinnebuns]

Those shells seem to be in rough shape. What are you feeding them?  What's your gh and ph?  Are you adding a calcium source to the water?

The dad does look to be blue. Are you sure that's chestnut?  Do you have any pictures of it when it was younger?  Sometimes magenta can look similar to chestnut. 

If it is chestnut X jade then you have the highest possibility of gold, jade, chestnut and black. Others are a very low possibility. 

The clutch takes 2-4 weeks to develop so you have time. It won't change much until the last few days. Then it will get darker. This is the baby snails developing and eating their way out of the clutch. Like @Chick-In-Of-TheSea said, if they are ivory or gold you may not notice it get very dark since the snails themselves are light.  I have a clutch about a day or 2 away from hatching. I can't get a pic of it in a bit. I can't right now because I have a cat on my lap and the laws of pets says I can't move lol. 

Given this is your first clutch, keep in mind that it's possible that it is not fertile. Females often lay 1-2 infertile clutches first even if they have mated. It's still always possible to be fertile so keep incubating it. If you have seen no development after 4 weeks, assume it is infertile and discard it. They also tend to start to smell if they are infertile. 

[Cinnebuns]

Here is my current clutch. It should be ready to hatch in a day or 2. You can see not all of the eggs are viable and developing. Some have even broken free already and honestly I could crumble it now but I'm going to wait because some seem to need some more development. 

 

Here's a video I made in the past of hatching a clutch. At the beginning it shows a very developed clutch. This one was so ready it almost crumbled apart as I picked it up.

 

Here is a chart so you can tell the colors of the babies immediately after they hatch. Some of them are harder to differentiate between and they are so tiny sometimes I give up and wait until they grow a little. They are able to tell color immediately though. 

 

 

 

And for fun, here's some pictures of my current snabies.  

 

[Stef]

@Cinnebuns, appreciate the tips, videos and pictures. I’ve had the “chestnut” snail for a year+.  She (I think she) is quite large. The earliest picture I could find of her is the first one below dated Nov 27 2021. The blue one was added probably 6-7 months ago. The “lightning bolt” scar started appearing after he was added and new growth started. The last two pics were just taken this evening. 
 

My parameters are good, just checked tonight. GH 300, KH 120, pH 7.2 - 7.4. I add a nano block every couple of months. Food wise, their base is canned green beans and have been pushing a couple of crab cuisine pcs into the beans to keep the betta from nabbing the crab cuisine. I’ve tried snello recipes with Repashy but I don’t think they like my recipe (I have morning wood, bottom scratcher and community). If they’re awake and I’m feeding frozen bloodworms I’ll drop in some via pipette right in front of them so they can nosh before the betta hogs it all. Do you think they need more calcium?  Should the shells be smoother? If they’re napping I don’t drop any food in.

 

i ❤️ that purple snaby, the color is so rich already. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/14/2023 at 6:57 PM, Cinnebuns said:

.  

 

The foot look kinda marbled. VERRRYYY COOL @Cinnebuns😍

[Cinnebuns]

On 6/14/2023 at 11:02 PM, Stef said:

@Cinnebuns, appreciate the tips, videos and pictures. I’ve had the “chestnut” snail for a year+.  She (I think she) is quite large. The earliest picture I could find of her is the first one below dated Nov 27 2021. The blue one was added probably 6-7 months ago. The “lightning bolt” scar started appearing after he was added and new growth started. The last two pics were just taken this evening. 
 

My parameters are good, just checked tonight. GH 300, KH 120, pH 7.2 - 7.4. I add a nano block every couple of months. Food wise, their base is canned green beans and have been pushing a couple of crab cuisine pcs into the beans to keep the betta from nabbing the crab cuisine. I’ve tried snello recipes with Repashy but I don’t think they like my recipe (I have morning wood, bottom scratcher and community). If they’re awake and I’m feeding frozen bloodworms I’ll drop in some via pipette right in front of them so they can nosh before the betta hogs it all. Do you think they need more calcium?  Should the shells be smoother? If they’re napping I don’t drop any food in.

 

i ❤️ that purple snaby, the color is so rich already. 

Sorry for the slow reply. I haven't been feeling the best. 

They do have some roughness to the shell but your parameters and feeding seem fine. The only other thing may be temperature but I'm not convinced that's the issue here. Depending on the other inhabitants it might not hurt to add a wonder shell every once in awhile or adding some more calcium to the snello but honestly between green beans and crab cuisine they should be fine with calcium in their diet. Idk. It honestly seems like you are doing it all right already. Not sure if you really need to change anything. 

I guess the one last thing could be that gh isn't just a measurement of calcium but magnesium too so it's possible you still have low calcium in the water. That's really the only thing that's left. 

[Stef]

Thank you again for the advice @Cinnebuns  hope you are feeling better. I have some wonder shells on hand, just need to be more regular about using them. 
As to the incubating clutch, it hasn’t changed in appearance. I swap out the top paper towel every night. I find the top paper towel is mildly damp. Is it supposed to be bone dry?  The clutch itself seems to have like a fine “dew” over the top. When I change the paper towel, I rotate the clutch so the bottom gets some time exposed to air. I don’t see any darkening of an embryo. 

[Cinnebuns]

On 6/17/2023 at 10:54 AM, Stef said:

Thank you again for the advice @Cinnebuns  hope you are feeling better. I have some wonder shells on hand, just need to be more regular about using them. 
As to the incubating clutch, it hasn’t changed in appearance. I swap out the top paper towel every night. I find the top paper towel is mildly damp. Is it supposed to be bone dry?  The clutch itself seems to have like a fine “dew” over the top. When I change the paper towel, I rotate the clutch so the bottom gets some time exposed to air. I don’t see any darkening of an embryo. 

Mine get moldy from time to time too. It's natural. The clutch should be humid but not wet. Yes I like to keep the top towel dry but maintain humid air in the incubator.  

If you collected this clutch on June 11th then it's still early to tell. They take at least 2 weeks and can take up to 4. I would give it the 4 weeks before you give up on it. It may start to smell by that point. 

[Stef]

Exciting news. I’ve got 6 live snabies tonight. Have been incubating for 16 days and when I checked late tonight, I could see parts of the clutch eaten away with a snail shell inside. I crushed the clutch in a container of tank water. It broke apart pretty easily. Out of a huge clutch I count just 6. Did I crush too early?

I’ve got them in their own tank with heater and small seasoned sponge filter. The sponge is a fine foam and I squeezed it out a bit for them. I used tank water from the tank they were incubating in. I added some but not all of their clutch remnants. While eggs were hard boiling (for yolks) I added powdered Repashy solient green and some easy fry food. Very small amounts of both. Also added a soggy catappa leaf that my betta donated 😄and some of his sand with gunk.

There’s a 7th snail that’s still laying on its side and hasn’t moved in two hours. Worried he didn’t make it. 

I was surprised at how quickly they “woke up” and started moving about. When I added the hard boiled egg yolk (half pea size), 5 of the 6 are up at the water edge. Is that normal? Gosh they’re tiny but oh so cute. Those antennas!! 🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌

So tomorrow, I think I siphon out uneaten foods, feed fresh and repeat? 
 

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea, @Cinnebuns, @Guppysnail anything you see that I’m missing or need to fix?  

 

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea, I also made it to page 60 of 65 of your journal. Entertaining and educational. Thank you

Edited June 28, 2023 by Stef

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/28/2023 at 12:24 AM, Stef said:

Did I crush too early?

Baby snails! Congratulations! 🎉 I would have crumbled at the same time; once you see snails hatching it usually means it’s ready to go. @Cinnebuns and @Guppysnail may know best though, as they have done this quite a few times.

On 6/28/2023 at 12:24 AM, Stef said:

There’s a 7th snail that’s still laying on its side and hasn’t moved in two hours. Worried he didn’t make it

I would take this guy out and put in a white cup/mug of tank water for observation, so as not to expose the other guys to the ammonia, if he had died. Hopefully he will start climbing the walls of the cup, but I also used a flashlight and a magnifying glass, or you can try using the Magnifier app.

On 6/28/2023 at 12:24 AM, Stef said:

the hard boiled egg yolk (half pea size)

In the beginning I used too much egg yolk, and @Guppysnail gave me a tip to just moisten a toothpick, dip it in hard boiled egg yolk, and swirl it in the water. You want a dust to coat the walls but not chunks of egg yolk sitting in the tank. Egg yolk does tend to foul the water quicker than other things. The Repashy is a good choice; it does contain protein and veg for them, and they will eat the crumbled clutch for their calcium.

On 6/28/2023 at 12:24 AM, Stef said:

 

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea, @Cinnebuns, @Guppysnail anything you see that I’m missing or need to fix?

Daily ammonia test. These little guys are sensitive to water quality.

On 6/28/2023 at 12:24 AM, Stef said:

5 of the 6 are up at the water edge. Is that normal?

I think I remember my guys wall climbing a lot in the beginning, but do a water test just in case. 

On 6/28/2023 at 12:24 AM, Stef said:

 

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea, I also made it to page 60 of 65 of your journal. Entertaining and educational. Thank you

Thank you! 🙏 I’m glad you like it! I’m surprised I wasn’t banned for too many snail pics. 😂. But I couldn’t help it. They are suuuuper cute!  Especially when they are babies.

Is the other clutch still incubating?

Edited June 28, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Guppysnail]

Congratulations. 🎊 

If they started chewing through the casing and there were no others with shells it was not too soon to crumble. Usually that means the humidity was a bit to high in the incubator. 

[Cinnebuns]

What likely happened is that the other eggs weren't fertile. You crushed at the right time. It just wasn't a very fertile clutch. Next one should be more fertile assuming there's males in with her!

[Stef]

On 6/28/2023 at 4:29 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Is the other clutch still incubating?

Only had the one clutch.  No secondsies. She never laid another clutch, tho I’m keeping the water level up (about 1 inch from rimless tank). 
 

All 6 alive this morning. The 7th was still motionless laying on his side in a cup 😢 He was the smallest of all of them. 
 

The Fab6 aren’t super active, tho still on the glass. Two found the catappa leaf. Do they nap like adults or should they be more active/feeding?

I plan to siphon out uneaten food after work. 

Their water parameters were decent this morning:

0 Ammonia

0 Nitrate

20-40 Nitrate

GH 300 ppm 

KH 40-80 ppm (low, tank I took water from has OTS)

pH 7.2

[Cinnebuns]

Do be aware that it's not uncommon to lose 50% or more of the snabies even if you do everything perfectly. They should have 24/7 access to food. I personally have never had great luck with a breeder box whereas hatching directly into the tank gives me more than I want, but everyone is different and finds their own route. My thought as to why the tank may work better for me is access to food as well and keeping it clean. Those boxes get nasty. You also have to keep on it with feeding. I was mostly doing first bites and supplementing with cholla wood, marimo moss balls, and bacter ae. I have medical issues so sometimes I would get behind by just 1 day and lose them all. The added benefit of the box over a tank though is you can monitor them. I mostly end up saying "good luck, I'll see ya later if you make it!" to mine in the tank. With 6 you can monitor them individually even. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/28/2023 at 2:41 PM, Stef said:

Only had the one clutch.  No secondsies.

Looks like 2 here?

On 6/29/2023 at 4:00 AM, Cinnebuns said:

I personally have never had great luck with a breeder box

I had great success but was massively OCD and spending a lot of time maintaining it, checking all snails for health and well-being.  Putting any questionable ones into the cup for further observation.  

On 6/29/2023 at 4:00 AM, Cinnebuns said:

Those boxes get nasty. You also have to keep on it with feeding.

Truth!  I got up an hour and a half earlier every day to do the morning maintenance on it, and then again at night I'd spend time maintaining, checking, over and over.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea