Angelfish suddenly stopped moving, inactive and floating (columnaris?)

[Guppy Guy]

Hi all,

Out of nowhere, my angelfish just stopped moving and floated around the tank. She isn't eating because it appears that there is no strength left. She was fine yesterday. My water parameters are fine (PH 7.5, nitrate 10, buffer 40, temp )

There is red around the fin bases, which I know from experience is an ammonia spike, but the other angelfish in the tank is fine, as are all the other fish. I also haven't added any new fish, or fertilizer recently so I doubt it is ammonia.

There is also red around her mouth, almost like bleeding under the skin. I think it might be a bacterial infection, but again, no other fish are affected.

I do have a quarantine tank on hand, but it is currently empty. the meds available to me right now are melafix, pimafix, prazipro, maracyn, focus, metroplex, and aquarium salt. Please help me choose what to dose, and how much if needed.

Thanks in advance

PS. in the picture, she is still moving her gills slightly, and her fins as well. I don’t know how much longer she will last though

Edited March 25 by Guppy Guy
added picture

[Colu]

It could be an injury from swimming into something in the tank that would explain the red patch is  hemorrhaging caused by the impact I would move your angelfish to your quarantine tank i would add some cycled media from your main tank I would add a small amount of aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 5 that will aid Gill function and add essential electrolytes I would also do a course of maracyn just in case there's a bacterial component I would test your ammonia and nitrite just in case you had a spike @Guppy Guy

[Guppy Guy]

Thank you!

[Guppy Guy]

@Colu, as I moved her to the quarantine tank, I noticed that her gills are very red inside. The quarantine tank does have an airstone, and I did add salt. I didn't realize thst my  maracyn is expired, so I will grab some from my LFS later. Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance.

[Colu]

On 3/23/2023 at 4:17 PM, Guppy Guy said:

@Colu, as I moved her to the quarantine tank, I noticed that her gills are very red inside. The quarantine tank does have an airstone, and I did add salt. I didn't realize thst my  maracyn is expired, so I will grab some from my LFS later. Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance.

It's possible ammonia burn to the Gill's I would up the level of salt to one table spoon for 2 gallons the aquarium salt will speed up the removal of ammonia from your Fish s blood stream 

[Guppy Guy]

She didn't make it. I appreciate the help though.

Before burying her, I looked at the gills, and they looked a little pale with a couple black spots. There was some black skin around that area (normal coloration), so is it normal for the gills to look like that? Also, one eye was a little cloudy, but I think it is just from where she had been dead for an hour or 2 before I took her out. Any ideas as to if those contributed to her death? I just want to figure out what happened so it won't happen to anyone else in that tank.

Edit: Oh, and one more thing. Every fin base was red, as were certain parts of skin. I have never seen that before, and find that very strange as it was all fine yesterday.

Edited March 23 by Guppy Guy

[Colu]

On 3/23/2023 at 8:42 PM, Guppy Guy said:

She didn't make it. I appreciate the help though.

Before burying her, I looked at the gills, and they looked a little pale with a couple black spots. There was some black skin around that area (normal coloration), so is it normal for the gills to look like that? Also, one eye was a little cloudy, but I think it is just from where she had been dead for an hour or 2 before I took her out. Any ideas as to if those contributed to her death? I just want to figure out what happened so it won't happen to anyone else in that tank.

Edit: Oh, and one more thing. Every fin base was red, as were certain parts of skin. I have never seen that before, and find that very strange as it was all fine yesterday.

Have  you check the  ammonia level in the main tank to rule out ammonia burn  fish decompose really quickly in warm water the pale Gill's and cloudy could have happened after it died there's also a possibility of a bacterial infection with the redding at the the base of the fins I would keep a close eye on your other fish over the next couple of days I would get holed of kanaplex or maracyn2 they are more broad spectrum antibiotic treatments just in case you need to treat the main tank 

[Guppy Guy]

On 3/23/2023 at 5:57 PM, Colu said:

Have  you check the  ammonia level in the main tank to rule out ammonia burn  fish decompose really quickly in warm water the pale Gill's and cloudy could have happened after it died there's also a possibility of a bacterial infection with the redding at the the base of the fins I would keep a close eye on your other fish over the next couple of days I would get holed of kanaplex or maracyn2 they are more broad spectrum antibiotic treatments just in case you need to treat the main tank 

If I do need to treat the main tank, won't it kill my filter media bacteria? its not a big deal, as I know Dr. Tims one and only will fix it, but I just want to be safe. Thanks.

[Colu]

Theirs always a possibility that antibiotic treatment will kill  off some of  your benefial bacterial there's a lot of debate on bottled bacteria I think it doesn't do anything to help speed up the cycling process just my opinion if I have a wobble in my cycle I do 50% water changes daily and add a double dose of prime every 24hr to help detoxify any ammonia and nitrite till it constantly stays at zero if you have other tanks you can always take some cycled media from that 

@Guppy Guy

[Guppy Guy]

Thanks @Colu, I'll update in a day or 2 to make sure everything is good.

[Guppy Guy]

@Colu, I don’t know if I am just being paranoid or if Michael (now my only angelfish) misses his friend, but he seems to be laying low today. Its not really hiding, but he isn’t out and about like he usually is. Also, his lips are a little white, but this has happened before and usually goes away in a few days. I’ll attach a picture though so you can judge.

He gobbled up some frozen brine shrimp this morning, so I’m not concerned about eating. He occasionally chases the danios and guppies, so I am guessing that he bumped into something, as it has happened before.

Thanks in advance.

[Colu]

On 3/24/2023 at 10:29 PM, Guppy Guy said:

@Colu, I don’t know if I am just being paranoid or if Michael (now my only angelfish) misses his friend, but he seems to be laying low today. Its not really hiding, but he isn’t out and about like he usually is. Also, his lips are a little white, but this has happened before and usually goes away in a few days. I’ll attach a picture though so you can judge.

He gobbled up some frozen brine shrimp this morning, so I’m not concerned about eating. He occasionally chases the danios and guppies, so I am guessing that he bumped into something, as it has happened before.

Thanks in advance.

White mouth can also be a sign of mouth rot often associated with columnaris I would air on the side of caution and do a course of maracyn2 or kanaplex just in case there's a bacterial component 

Edited April 8 by Colu

[Guppy Guy]

On 3/24/2023 at 8:27 PM, Colu said:

White mouth can also be a sign of mouth often associated with columnaris I would air on the side of caution and do a course of maracyn2 or kanaplex just in case there's a bacterial component 

I hate to say it, but that makes perfect since. I had a molly die from columnaris a couple years ago in the same tank, and there is a good chance that it is the cause of some minor guppy deaths that I've had as well.

Do you approve of this method by Michael's Fish Room? Long story short, you do a 50% water change, add 2.5 tablespoons of kosher rock salt per gallon, and dose methylene blue for the entire tank. Is this better then maracyn2 or kanaplex? I know I will have to remove my catfish if I go this route, but I would rather treat the whole tank since this seems to be a recurring issue. Any opinions are welcome.

[Colu]

On 3/25/2023 at 12:45 AM, Guppy Guy said:

I hate to say it, but that makes perfect since. I had a molly die from columnaris a couple years ago in the same tank, and there is a good chance that it is the cause of some minor guppy deaths that I've had as well.

Do you approve of this method by Michael's Fish Room? Long story short, you do a 50% water change, add 2.5 tablespoons of kosher rock salt per gallon, and dose methylene blue for the entire tank. Is this better then maracyn2 or kanaplex? I know I will have to remove my catfish if I go this route, but I would rather treat the whole tank since this seems to be a recurring issue. Any opinions are welcome.

There's a couple of treatment options if it were a confirmed case of the columnaris as it's a gram negative bacterial infections that spreads more quickly at higher temperatures and can kill fish anywhere from 24hr to 7 days depending on the stain the Most effective treatment I have found is a combination of kanaplex and jungal fungus clear fizz tabs containing nitrofurazone following this treatment plan if your not sure it's columnaris then I would just do a course of maracyn2 or kanaplex  I wouldn't add methylene blue to your tank it will kill your benefial bacterial high levels of salt can be effective at the level need it would be harmful to your catfish

Edited March 25 by Colu

[Guppy Guy]

On 3/24/2023 at 8:57 PM, Colu said:

spreads more quickly at higher temperatures and can kill fish anywhere from 24hr to 7 days depending on the stain

Could it still be columnaris if it only kills one fish every so many months (at least in my case)?

[Colu]

On 3/25/2023 at 1:02 AM, Guppy Guy said:

Could it still be columnaris if it only kills one fish every so many months (at least in my case)?

You usually get mass mortality with columnaris not the odd random deaths I still couldn't rule out a bacterial infections with this angelfish so still think it would be beneficial to do a course of maracyn2 or kanaplex just in case there's a bacterial component 

Edited March 25 by Colu

[Guppy Guy]

OK, thanks. One more thing. It is OK to treat the whole tank right? My whip tail catfish will be fine I assume? I would prefer to treat the whole tank if possible though, as it will permanently remove this problem, right? Thanks.

[Colu]

On 3/25/2023 at 1:13 AM, Guppy Guy said:

OK, thanks. One more thing. It is OK to treat the whole tank right? My whip tail catfish will be fine I assume? I would prefer to treat the whole tank if possible though, as it will permanently remove this problem, right? Thanks.

antibiotic treatments such as Maracyn2 or kanaplex are fine to use with whiptails 

[Guppy Guy]

ok, thanks. I’ll give it a try as soon as I can.

[Guppy Guy]

Just got back from my LFS. They recommended kanaplex and metroplex mixed into some frozen food. I did that, and everyone ate it, so I'll update when something changes, hopefully for the better:)

[Colu]

On 3/26/2023 at 9:20 PM, Guppy Guy said:

Just got back from my LFS. They recommended kanaplex and metroplex mixed into some frozen food. I did that, and everyone ate it, so I'll update when something changes, hopefully for the better:)

I wouldn't recommend kanaplex in food as it's poorly absorbed by the intestinal tract it's not very effective in food you could dose the tank with kanaplex and add the metroplex to food

[Guppy Guy]

On 3/26/2023 at 8:56 PM, Colu said:

I wouldn't recommend kanaplex in food as it's poorly absorbed by the intestinal tract it's not very effective in food you could dose the tank with kanaplex and add the metroplex to food

Ok, I will try that tomorrow then. Thanks!

[Guppy Guy]

I know it has been almost 2 weeks, so I will give an update. Michaels mouth is looking a little better, and he’s not hiding any more. I have started medicating the tank and food every other day, and everything seems to be going good. I think this treatment knocked out whatever was causing my problems, so thanks for the help @Colu.

Edited April 8 by Guppy Guy