Shrimp people!

[Rita]

Hey shrimp folks, I have a question specifically about Caridina shrimp. Can people successfully keep them in high pH hard water? I was reading about caridina shrimp in particular and everything I read says they’re hard to keep, need neutral pH and soft water… but I also came to the realization that amano shrimp are a caridina species and they do beautifully in my water… so what gives? Is the internet being the internet again and over generalizing?

here’s a pic of one of my fat and happy amano shrimp 

[CJs Aquatics]

Just getting into shrimp but I just recently heard people have managed to keep them in hard water but the discussion consisted of you have better success with that long term if you can manage to get them to breed in it. Leads me to believe the trick is in raising them from young in harder water but to answer your question I just watched videos where people have done it I just think it isn’t prevalent or easy so it’s suggested by the internet not to… personally I have had a terrible time keeping regular neos over the years. Currently trying again. My water is perfect for neos, every parameter, did everything I was supposed to and they have died time and time again, hopefully this time it goes right bc I love shrimp… Flip side of the coin, I kept crystal reds in a 2.5 gallon using distilled water and really nothing else and they bred like crazy so the moral of the story is, in my opinion, I don’t see why you couldn’t…. Happy shrimping 🙃

[itsfoxtail]

Just my two cents: I've found the more ornamental caridina species seem to rely more on TDS than others. Higher ph/harder water usually means higher TDS so therefore we have a harder time keeping them in higher ph. I know there are some awesome shrimp people out there who are adapting them to neocaridina parameters and for that I cannot wait! I keep my caridina in soft water out of fear mostly (lol) but I'd say if you have a low TDS and minimal gh/kh in your water there's always room for experimentation! 

[Remi de Groot]

I think the rule about the caridina shrimps and low ph works in most of the times. But def. not in all.
Never had Amano shrimps, but i have different kinds of caridina and neocaridina shrimp at the moment.

Some of the caridina shrimps are actually better of in harder water with higher ph, like the Caridina Dennerle (Sulawesi).
So as for every rule there are exceptions and you should read the info before buying a new line.
Also always good to check the parameters of the breeder they come from if possible.

The Crystal Reds/Blacks are known to be a sturdy line that is able to survive and breed in harder waters to.
Here in the Netherlands that means we can use tap water for them instead of RO water.
This are lines tho that are born and grown in tap water. Doing this to shrimps that are born in RO water gives problems.

I've tried both and on the long term i found less problems with the Crystals on softer water tbh.

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/18/2022 at 4:55 PM, Rita said:

Can people successfully keep them in high pH hard water? I was reading about caridina shrimp in particular and everything I read says they’re hard to keep, need neutral pH and soft water… but I also came to the realization that amano shrimp are a caridina species and they do beautifully in my water… so what gives? Is the internet being the internet again and over generalizing?

My amanos have stress issues when PH gets above 7.4 for a long period.  Red shells and molting early (or they can't molt).  My water is very hard. 300 PPM+ usually.  That isn't the issue.  My KH fluctuates and that's the typical issue for Caradina vs. Neo shrimp.  I am not saying high GH, low PH/KH water is good for all shrimp, but I am simply saying that there's a difference between "hard water" and "high PH water".  Not all rectangles are squares...

Alright so, for most shrimp, you're specifically talking a certain TDS (usually) and a certain PH range.  I would always look up something from Chris Lukaup or some database somewhere on shrimp species.  I don't know if there is a planetcatfish for shrimp, but that's what I would go to. 

Often you're using substrate to soften water, like a blackwater setup, but it's the type of thing where you are often trying to pull things down and the substrate is a major mechanism for that (in addition to hardscape).  

If you're question is simply put, "will PH affect the shrimp"? Yes. It will.  Depending what's going on long term you'll see issues.  Shrimp like consistency.  That's the whole thing with them.  When something fluctuates, that's when you're going to see issues.

Your shrimp is a little red.  So it might be due to eating a ton of red food, but who knows.  Just something to keep an eye on.  What are your water parameters?

Edited November 20, 2022 by nabokovfan87
wrote is, meant to say are.

[Rita]

On 11/19/2022 at 6:22 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Your shrimp is a little red.  So it might be due to eating a ton of red food, but who knows.  Just something to keep an eye on.  What are your water parameters?

Here’s a pic from the test strips, this tank has been running for 2 years and I’ve had some of these amano shrimp in there almost as long. I have noticed they look a little darker/ dull when they’re about to molt, but I can’t say I was ever concerned about them. Here’s what my test strip looks like today 

[nabokovfan87]

Adding some tannins might sort things out.  Wood, pods, cones, leaves, etc.  I would try to slowly drop KH with hardscape/Tannins.  Beyond that. looks like my water before I had KH issues.  I have to use Seachem Alkaline booster.  They also have one that might work for you, if you ever do run into issues called Seachem Acid buffer.  I use 2x 1/8 of  tsp per 5G bucket of water change.

[Minanora]

I keep my neocaridina in high pH, high GH and KH. I've been thinking about trying caridina shrimp, like tigers or crystal reds, and starting them with whatever parameters the seller has and then seeing if I can shift them to my local water over a few generations. I haven't read much about people doing this but with how hardy my neos have become, I'm almost tempted to try.

They're just expensive so it's hard to justify a high maintenance experiment without several other tanks to put them in where they will thrive and make backup shrimp.

I know Cory is keeping some caridina in his fish room that appear to be thriving on his tap water, but I don't know what the parameters are. Being the PNW, it probably is super soft by nature.

Amano shrimp aren't the same as the dwarf caridina varieties. They go into brackish water to breed and hatch young, so I imagine that's why they do okay in hard, high pH water.

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/20/2022 at 8:09 AM, Minanora said:

Amano shrimp aren't the same as the dwarf caridina varieties. They go into brackish water to breed and hatch young, so I imagine that's why they do okay in hard, high pH water.

Late to see this, but yeah. Basically they are similar family, but a different species.  Mine definitely didn't do well when PH climbed. Could've been the swing in parameters, but above 7.4-7.6 And they weren't happy. I lost about 30%. 

Caridina are a lot more, and I mean a lot more notorious for being sensitive. Just keep that in mind when considering what to keep them in and how to do so. For most shrimp keepers the difference between Neocaridina vs. Caridina is about as plain as what water goes into the tank and what substrate is used. Neos would use the inert substrate while the Caridina would use the variety that shifts PH down.

On 11/20/2022 at 8:09 AM, Minanora said:

I've been thinking about trying caridina shrimp, like tigers or crystal reds, and starting them with whatever parameters the seller has and then seeing if I can shift them to my local water over a few generations. I haven't read much about people doing this but with how hardy my neos have become, I'm almost tempted to try.

They're just expensive so it's hard to justify a high maintenance experiment without several other tanks to put them in where they will thrive and make backup shrimp.

I know Cory is keeping some caridina in his fish room that appear to be thriving on his tap water, but I don't know what the parameters are. Being the PNW, it probably is super soft by nature.

Check out Saluwesi before going right to Caradina. Might or might not fit better.

[mynameisnobody]

@Rita excellent question! As I read it, I didn’t realize I’ve been wondering the same thing, but just thought I was nutty. Also excellent replies all around. 

[Procrypsis]

For the most part as I beleive you are looking at the highly colorful, very delicate species:

 

no

no

and - no

My experiences:

pH 6.5 and above = deaths 

pH 6.0 to 6.5 and 150-200 um - they will live, but not thrive

pH 4.5 to 5.5 100-150 um - will live and thrive

To be sucessful:

#1 is stable water quality within the desired range - cannot stress that enough. Buy an RO system and remineralize. Alternative - use rainwater and pray.

#2 - DO NOT overfeed - remove uneaten food within a few hours of feeding. If you don't = dead shrimp.

#3 - regular water changes are a must, if you don't = dead shrimp. Regular = weekly or bi-weekly. Longer than that = dead shrimp.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Procrypsis

[Remi de Groot]

On 1/17/2023 at 4:10 PM, Procrypsis said:

For the most part as I beleive you are looking at the highly colorful, very delicate species:

 

no

no

and - no

My experiences:

pH 6.5 and above = deaths 

pH 6.0 to 6.5 and 150-200 um - they will live, but not thrive

pH 4.5 to 5.5 100-150 um - will live and thrive

To be sucessful:

#1 is stable water quality within the desired range - cannot stress that enough. Buy an RO system and remineralize. Alternative - use rainwater and pray.

#2 - DO NOT overfeed - remove uneaten food within a few hours of feeding. If you don't = dead shrimp.

#3 - regular water changes are a must, if you don't = dead shrimp. Regular = weekly or bi-weekly. Longer than that = dead shrimp.

Agree on #1 and #2, not so much with your #3.

As long as you keep your water clean (by following step #2) and check your water parameters there is no need of water changes that often.
Changing water only highers the risk of changing your parameters to fast when the new water doesn't match the current water (=death shrimp).
One of the local breeders here with thriving colonies and tanks full with shrimp only does a water change every 6 months.