IAL vs Seachem Purigen

[KittenFishMom]

I'm doing some shopping for my 55 gallon tank set up and came across Seachem Purigen. Its features say it removes tannins. I thought tannins were good for fish tanks, which is why I keep adding IALs as the snails eat them. Something that removes tannins sounds like a problem, not a feature.

What am I misunderstanding?

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/5/2022 at 8:43 PM, KittenFishMom said:

What am I misunderstanding?

Purigen is a resin based chemical media. Think carbon, but it can be used more than once. It is usually recharged with bleach and is also something used in water treatment facilities on some level.  (Someone on the forums has experience in that field and can speak to that)

Purigen is used for something like a planted tank to remove unwanted things with the caveat that it "shouldn't" remove the things your plants want available. Kind of similar to poly filter, I imagine that purigen removes whatever organics is in excess at the time of use.

It "works" by removing things and there's very little data for me that I've seen as to how to control what it removes and what it can or can't remove.

If you ever want to remove something, I'd suggest carbon or purigen. If you're going to use purigen once and throw it away (a lot of people do), then just use carbon.

Tannins are a very specific thing and you wouldn't want to remove them because of those benefits.  So if your plan is to have a blackwater tank, then you wouldn't use purigen.

To speak to what you're saying though, you can have a tank with botanicals and tannins without having dark colored water. You can use carbon or purigen to clarify the water and then remove it and control the color with water changes and keep some of those benefits in your tank by leaving some of those dissolved organics in the water.

[KittenFishMom]

@nabokovfan87 I have plants and IAL in my tanks. The water does have a tannin tint to it, but I think it is good for the fish. I never use carbon/charcoal in my tanks because I read it can remove trace elements that the fish need. 

I have a very high KH and a zero for GH so the pH is very high. I need to do the 24 hour water test with an air stone. Found that bucket to use and the air pump, just need to clean the bucket well and get it started. I might try a second bucket with a active sponge filter, to see how long it takes to bring the ammonia to zero. I wish I could figure out a way to increase calcium without upping the pH.

Trying to pick some carpeting plants that will grow in my water. The plant descriptions talk about light levels, but don't mention pH or KH. 

I'm going to sleep on it and maybe post a question in the plant forum.

Thanks so much for all your help.

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/5/2022 at 10:04 PM, KittenFishMom said:

I have a very high KH and a zero for GH so the pH is very high.

I think equilibrium (or something like that) might be useful for you to slightly give the plants some GH without affecting PH too much.  I would have to verify, but I think adding a GH buffer won't affect KH/PH if it's one that doesn't use those ions.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/ph-gh-kh

 

Quote

How to Measure GH

We recommend using the multi-test strips if you’re trying to reach a certain GH level or if your animals and plants are showing health issues. Symptoms of low GH include:

• Fish with poor appetite, slow growth rate, lethargy, or faded colors
• Plants with signs of calcium or other mineral deficiencies
• Shrimp having trouble with molting
• Snails with thin, flaking, or pitted shells

Remember that GH measures both calcium and magnesium, so if your water has high GH but you still see these symptoms, it’s possible your water has lots of magnesium but very little calcium. In this case, use a calcium test kit (specifically for fresh water) to determine if you’re lacking that particular mineral. 

Bottom line: Don’t let your GH values get too low because it may result in poor growth or even death with your animals and plants.

How are pH, KH, and GH Related?

pH, KH, and GH all measure specific kinds of ions. When you add a natural source of minerals, it tends to release multiple types of ions, which then affects multiple types of water parameters. For example, limestone contains a high percentage of calcium carbonate, which contains both calcium and carbonate ions and therefore raises both GH and KH. If you want to increase only GH but not KH, you must increase the specific ions for GH (calcium and magnesium) without including ions that affect KH (carbonates and bicarbonates). In fact, African cichlid keepers often buy or create specific salt mixes to individually raise KH or GH.

 

On 11/5/2022 at 10:04 PM, KittenFishMom said:

Trying to pick some carpeting plants that will grow in my water. The plant descriptions talk about light levels, but don't mention pH or KH. 

There are some videos I've seen.  I would encourage you to head to Bentley Pascoe's next live stream and feel free to ask the question directly there. Last time I asked one we got a video out of it to reference.  I have heard KH / GH discussed and it is beneficial to some plants and crustaceans.  I did have concerns in my tank that low enough KH was leading to deficiencies I was seeing.

As far as your tank though and the question at hand, agreed.  I wouldn't use carbon / purigen because the tank in question doesn't require it's use.  If you had sick fish, wanted to remove meds, etc., that is when you'd want to use it.

[KittenFishMom]

@nabokovfan87 I measure GH with strips and API tests. Water system people also say our water has no calcium or magnesium, but lots of carbonate., KH.  I have tried using wondershells and crushed coral, but the pH goes higher. Made I should try a bit of the Equilibrium before I give it away. The person I gave the guppies to had a 50 gallon tank with 3 fish in it. He wasn't familiar with the idea of adding anything to the RO water he was getting from the RO tap. I think the guppies will need calcium if they are reproducing.

My husband and I are tossing around the idea of getting an RO system for the water here. No one at our end of the lake drinks their well water.

[KittenFishMom]

@nabokovfan87 I have 4 gallon of well water in a 5 gallon bucket with a heater and a sponge filter I just took out of an active fish tank. I also have 3 gallons in a 5 gallon bucket with an air stone. I took readings and will check them again in about 24 hours.

[nabokovfan87]

very nice. Looking forward to hearing results 🙂

[KittenFishMom]

@nabokovfan87 I've been studying the tests and noticed that with the ACO test strips, my GH is off the high end of the scale, and with the API test tube tests the GH and Ca and at zero. I am pretty sure this means my water has a large quantity of magnesium. 

Seachem's Equilibrium is 8.06% calcium and 2.41%  water soluble magnesium, along with other things I can not test for.  It is supposed to make RO water just right for plants and fish. I guess my next step, before trying it in my tanks, is to find out the hazards of too much magnesium. I might give Seachem a call tomorrow too.

I can buy a magnesium test kit, but I don't recognize the manufacturers.  I can also pay twice the price and have the water lab test for magnesium, but I'm not sure if they give the concentration or just if they do or do not find magnesium.

[tolstoy21]

Equilibrium will only contribute to GH and do nothing to the KH that I have ever experienced during use. It's very good for plant heath, especially if you have no mineral hardness in your water at all. However, be forewarned, it will make your water cloudy for a day or two, but that cloudiness will go away.

Personally love Equilibrium and have used it a lot.

Tannis are good and beneficial and will tend to acidify the water a bit (but probably not enough to put a dent in your Kh). So, yeah, hold onto to those!

I would skip using Purigen unless you were using it to specifically remove something from the water that you knew you did not want in there.  I think people tend to use it to create crystal clear water and remove any tea-colored tint from the water that might be caused by tannins leaching from new driftwood (if they find that unappealing for the aesthetic they are going for).

I know Purigen will remove more than just tannins from the water column, but I'm not sure what else to be honest.

I've used it a few times and it does produce some pretty crystal clear water.

EDIT:

Here is the description of it at the Seachem site: 

Quote

 It is not a mixture of ion exchangers or adsorbents, but a unique macro-porous synthetic polymer that removes soluble and insoluble impurities from water at a rate and capacity that exceeds all other competing products by over 500%. Purigen® controls ammonia, nitrites and nitrates by removing nitrogenous organic waste that would otherwise release these harmful compounds. Purigen’s impact on trace elements is minimal

So it doesn't not appear to be an ion-selective resin like one would find in a water softener or other type of DI resin. Instead it seems to target larger compounds and wastes.

Edited November 7, 2022 by tolstoy21