Equilibrium

[JoeQ]

Thought I'd follow the experts ( @Mmiller2001 & @Seattle_Aquarist) and see if using Equilibrium in the place of crushed coral helps me grow better plants this year. After an impulse Amazon buy I thought I would just double check.  Is this safe to use along side with Fritz complete/Prime during water changes? And should I remove/burry what I can of the CC?

[Mmiller2001]

I would remove the CC if you can. It's also safe to use with the above mentioned. I used Equilibrium for a while and once I understood a few things, it was clear Equilibrium has a few problems. The biggest problem was the additional TDS it added to the water. Keep in mind it has iron and I believe potassium included. 

If you want to really dial in, plain old CaSO4 and MgSO4 are the best route. Epsom salt is straight MgSO4 and CaSO4 is maybe 4 dollars online.

Equilibrium also leaves a residue behind when used and if added directly to the tank, leaves the water cloudy for a bit.

Here's what 1g adds to 10 gallons.

[JoeQ]

What is the going rate (grams per gallon) on Epson Salts for plant supplementation? I'm pretty sure I've read for some species of fish you need to cut the recommended illness related Therapeutic dose because of sensitivities. 

[Mmiller2001]

I'm note sure the cost per gram, but you can get a bag at a grocery store or pharmacy for a few dollars. It would probably last you many years. Remember, it's just magnesium and sulfur and is 1 component of GH. You use Calcium and Magnesium (in combination) to raise or set a specific GH. Just buy the plain Epsom Salt, no scent added. It will say 100% MgSO4.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Mmiller2001

[JoeQ]

Dose per gallon,  not cost. 🤣

[Mmiller2001]

This depends on how much you want to raise GH. And you want to add Ca:Mg in a ratio. 

I will explain how I set my GH. I use RO water which is 0 TDS (plain old H2O). I want my tanks to be 4.5dGH. I know that a 4:1, 3:1 and 2:1 ratios are recommended. I've found, through trial and error, my tanks do well at 3:1. So that's 3 parts Ca to 1 part Mg. I use large water storage I fill and it's 32 gallons.

I use rotalabutterfly calculator to make the calculation.

 

So here, if I add 10.6g of CaSO4, I get the results to the right. I can see Ca ppm, S ppm and the degrees GH that the water will be. I record the dGH.

Now I will do the same for Mg

Altering my calculator for magnesium, you can see that 8.3g MgSO4 adds the Mg ppm, S ppm and the dGH. I add the Ca dGH to Mg dGH. 2.85+1.56=4.41dGH

So now I have water that's 4.41dGH with 20.37ppm Ca and 6.76ppm Mg. My numbers don't have to be exact, but close enough is good enough. So checking the ratio, 6.76x3=20.28. That verifies a 3:1 ratio.

You can use the calculator to work in the other direct. Say you want a specific ppm in ratio. You can change the calculator to tell you how many grams will dose 20ppm of Calcium. Then you know you need 6.67ppm of Mg to get to the 3:1 ratio.

I know this seems too complicated (maybe) but it's not. It's just new. Once you do it a few times, it's super easy.

I also use this same calculator to dose my dry powder fertilizer, this way I know exactly what's going into the tank and how my water changes changes these numbers so I can dose the correct amount to maintain Xppm all the time.. This is STABILITY.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Mmiller2001

[JoeQ]

"Not that complicated"!  As I was reading that, the drool was rolling down my chin from my confused slack jawed expression!!! 🤣🤣 All I want to do is raise it by a few degrees so snail shells don't erode, I have no intrest in earning a masters in advanced aquatic eco system balancing with a Batchelor degree in chemistry!!! Thanks for the in depth response tho, hopefully one day I will look back and think 'ahhh now I see, it was soo simple'!

[Mmiller2001]

It's only because it's new. I assure you it's easy. 

How many gallons is the tank? What is the GH of the tank? And how many degrees do you want to raise GH?

[JoeQ]

Its 36 gallons, the Gh is about +/- 8dg, 150ppm (if my maths is good).  I went with equilibrium because the dosing was easy (3dg per recommended dose). With my live inhabitants Aqavisor recommended my GH be 8-15 which gives my conscious enough of a cushion that I won't over dose the poor lil guys!

[Mmiller2001]

All you need for snails is 5dGH.

And if for some reason you are worried, use this.

GlasGarten Mineral Junkie Bites (Sticks) for Shrimps, Crayfish, Crabs, Snails (50g) https://a.co/d/ei78NBp

[JoeQ]

When i get home ill see if i can get a pic of my assassins,  shells look horrible. 

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 8/29/2022 at 12:14 PM, JoeQ said:

"Not that complicated"!  As I was reading that, the drool was rolling down my chin from my confused slack jawed expression!!! 🤣🤣 All I want to do is raise it by a few degrees so snail shells don't erode, I have no intrest in earning a masters in advanced aquatic eco system balancing with a Batchelor degree in chemistry!!! Thanks for the in depth response tho, hopefully one day I will look back and think 'ahhh now I see, it was soo simple'!

Hi @JoeQ

That is why I recommended Equilibrium, it is easier to use than going down the rabbit hole however @Mmiller2001 is correct.  When using calcium sulfate (CaSO4) and magnesium sulfate (MgSO4) I dose 2 parts CaSO4 and 1 part MgSO4 and it gets me close enough for government work on the Ca:Mg ratio.  -Roy  

[JoeQ]

On 8/29/2022 at 7:27 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @JoeQ

That is why I recommended Equilibrium, it is easier to use than going down the rabbit hole however @Mmiller2001 is correct.  When using calcium sulfate (CaSO4) and magnesium sulfate (MgSO4) I dose 2 parts CaSO4 and 1 part MgSO4 and it gets me close enough for government work on the Ca:Mg ratio.  -Roy  

That's all im looking to do, just get good enough,  at the same time hopefully improve shell health.

[PerceptivePesce]

cool thread.  @Seattle_Aquaristdo you use ro water too?

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 8/30/2022 at 7:18 AM, PerceptivePesce said:

cool thread.  @Seattle_Aquaristdo you use ro water too?

Hi @PerceptivePesce

No, I live in Seattle and my water comes out of the tap at pH@7.0 (degassed); 2.0 dKH; and 1.0 dGH......so extremely soft (almost RO softness) so I have to add Ca, Mg, Fe, and macro and micro nutrients weekly.  I have helped several individuals that have water softeners or RO units achieve better plant growth; most folks know that plants need the macros (N, P, K) but the secondary nutrients (Fe, Ca, Mg) can substantially effect plant growth (or lack thereof).  Micro-nutrients are important as well but seldom do they actually limit plant growth.  -Roy

[Mmiller2001]

On 8/30/2022 at 10:25 AM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @PerceptivePesce

No, I live in Seattle and my water comes out of the tap at pH@7.0 (degassed); 2.0 dKH; and 1.0 dGH......so extremely soft (almost RO softness) so I have to add Ca, Mg, Fe, and macro and micro nutrients weekly.  I have helped several individuals that have water softeners or RO units achieve better plant growth; most folks know that plants need the macros (N, P, K) but the secondary nutrients (Fe, Ca, Mg) can substantially effect plant growth (or lack thereof).  Micro-nutrients are important as well but seldom do they actually limit plant growth.  -Roy

What's the TDS of your tap water?

[PerceptivePesce]

@Seattle_Aquarist@Mmiller2001

Have y'all ever helped someone who doesn't want to get an ro filter, and has high tds, high ph, decent buffer, moderate softness tap water?  I don't have my tank set-up yet, I'm just trying to get prepared.

But let me ask ya.  Would it be crazy for me to call the water company and ask if they can tell me what's in the water?  I assume the tech required to test water is very expensive since there aren't many retail options.

[Mmiller2001]

It's always a challenge when working with tap water because so much can be a mystery. You can definitely reach out to the water company and get a report listing what's in the water. This will help those who try to help you. 

Knowing the TDS and GH/KH is very important and is a great starting point.

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 8/30/2022 at 9:34 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

What's the TDS of your tap water?

Hi @Mmiller2001

The water is snow melt from the Cascade Mountain range.  It varies over the year but the average is 45 TDS but can be as low as 26 TDS and has high as 70 TDS on the 640 scale......so soft.
 -Roy

Edited August 30, 2022 by Seattle_Aquarist

[Mmiller2001]

On 8/30/2022 at 5:15 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Mmiller2001

The water is snow melt from the Cascade Mountain range.  It varies of the year but the average is 45 TDS but can be as low as 26 TDS and has high as 70 TDS......so soft.
 -Roy

Wow, so jealous. If only I could have that from my tap!

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 8/30/2022 at 11:02 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

It's always a challenge when working with tap water because so much can be a mystery. You can definitely reach out to the water company and get a report listing what's in the water. This will help those who try to help you. 

Knowing the TDS and GH/KH is very important and is a great starting point.

+1 for @Mmiller2001 comment; start with the water quality report of your local water utility.

[Mike]

On 8/30/2022 at 4:15 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Mmiller2001

The water is snow melt from the Cascade Mountain range.  It varies over the year but the average is 45 TDS but can be as low as 26 TDS and has high as 70 TDS on the 640 scale......so soft.
 -Roy

I’m also in Seattle, I can attest this is true. I tested my tap recently and it was 37 TDS.

On 8/29/2022 at 12:14 PM, JoeQ said:

"Not that complicated"!  As I was reading that, the drool was rolling down my chin from my confused slack jawed expression!!! 🤣🤣 All I want to do is raise it by a few degrees so snail shells don't erode, I have no intrest in earning a masters in advanced aquatic eco system balancing with a Batchelor degree in chemistry!!! Thanks for the in depth response tho, hopefully one day I will look back and think 'ahhh now I see, it was soo simple'!

Dosing calcium and magnesium sounds complicated but it’s really not hard once you do it a couple times. Reef aquarists do it regularly since corals consume it in high quantities compared to plants. You’ll feel a lot more confident once you do it. 

[PerceptivePesce]

I checked out my water system's website and found a report for 2021.  I don't know what any of this means tho.

https://ndws.us/water-quality-report

Lowes has tests with more details. I'm gonna get one today.

[Mmiller2001]

Maybe it's my phone, but I can't read the report because it's so blurry.

[PerceptivePesce]

On 8/31/2022 at 10:08 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

Maybe it's my phone, but I can't read the report because it's so blurry.

Yeah, u gotta dl it to read it. I can post ss later if u don't wanna dl