kh problems...

[Oreganoodle]

The ammonia and nitrates in my tap water lead to water changes needing to be more frequent than I'd like, so I've started using RO and adding Seachem's equillibrium for gh + crushed coral for kh/ph. The KH was right around 3 and ph 7.4 - 7.6 ish. I was hoping to get the KH just a little higher - so  I also doubled the amount of crushed coral in the tank (roughly 2 pounds in the tank + 4 tbsp or so in the filter).  It is a 34 gallon tank - so I know I am using less crushed coral than is recommended - but I wanted to move slowly. Doubling the crushed coral had the effect of raising the ph to 8, but has not impacted the kh -- in fact the kh is now 2 (After about 3 weeks and average 10% water change/week).  I'm afraid that adding more crushed coral will bring my ph above 8 -- which I don't think my platty's will love.

Previous to double the crushed coral, I tried a wonder shell - but that primarily raised my GH or so it was seeming.

Does anyone have any experience with Seachem's Alkaline buffer?  Other thoughts on raising kh?

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/23/2022 at 3:33 PM, Oreganoodle said:

The ammonia and nitrates in my tap water lead to water changes needing to be more frequent than I'd like,

What is the results of your water out of the tap, after 24 hours of aeration?

 

 

On 5/23/2022 at 3:33 PM, Oreganoodle said:

RO and adding Seachem's equillibrium for gh + crushed coral for kh/ph

Your best bet for something like this is going to be to have a place to "condition" water for water changes.  55G or something trashcan with wheels is pretty common way to do it with a pumphead inside.  I think Zenzo (Tazawa Tanks) has a video on his channel of how he ran his business and it was a very common tool he used to move water around when working on business tanks.

 

 

On 5/23/2022 at 3:33 PM, Oreganoodle said:

I was hoping to get the KH just a little higher - so  I also doubled the amount of crushed coral in the tank (roughly 2 pounds in the tank + 4 tbsp or so in the filter).  It is a 34 gallon tank - so I know I am using less crushed coral than is recommended - but I wanted to move slowly.

1 lb per 10G, slightly less if you are using it in a high flow situation.  This is for KH specifically (ignoring GH).  What is your setup for how the coral is in your tank?  I am running it in my HoB in a media bag right now and was considering this:
 

 

 

On 5/23/2022 at 3:33 PM, Oreganoodle said:

Doubling the crushed coral had the effect of raising the ph to 8, but has not impacted the kh -- in fact the kh is now 2 (After about 3 weeks and average 10% water change/week)

Water changes of higher volume might give the PH a better chance to stabilize while the KH is slowly being buffered.  Someone else, please comment on this one.  This is something where I think a lot of us are struggling with buffer/KH issues.

On 5/23/2022 at 3:33 PM, Oreganoodle said:

Does anyone have any experience with Seachem's Alkaline buffer?  Other thoughts on raising kh?

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/ph-gh-kh
 

Quote

For instance, we’ve observed that if you have a higher pH of 8.0 and you add a buffering agent like crushed coral, KH will rise but the pH value doesn’t move as much. However, if you have a lower pH and add crushed coral, both pH and KH values tend to increase.

There is an Alkaline / Acid buffer.  One of those was my next step for my tank if the ziss idea didn't work out.  I'll have to order it and then let you know.  Directions are "fun" but might give you an idea of how to use the two to balance out your issues.

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Oreganoodle]

On 5/23/2022 at 6:47 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

What is the results of your water out of the tap, after 24 hours of aeration?

.5 ppm ammonia 10 ppm nitrates

On 5/23/2022 at 6:47 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

What is your setup for how the coral is in your tank?

2 pounds of it is in a very large filter bag just below the filter in a high flow area. 4 tbsp of it is in a filter bag in the filter.

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/23/2022 at 5:05 PM, Oreganoodle said:

.5 ppm ammonia 10 ppm nitrates

Is this after aeration?

On 5/23/2022 at 5:05 PM, Oreganoodle said:

2 pounds of it is in a very large filter bag just below the filter in a high flow area. 4 tbsp of it is in a filter bag in the filter.

Interesting. I was able to get just over 1/2 lb in my filter box (obvious issues with this), but it's slowly raised the KH by about 1 degree in that time.  I need it to go up 2 more to be consistent when I change water.  I just ordered some of the alkaline buffer, I'll report back when it gets here and after a few weeks of use.

[Oreganoodle]

On 5/23/2022 at 8:13 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Is this after aeration?

I guess that depends what you mean by aeration. I let it sit in a large container with the lid off - occasionally kicking it as I walked by so that the air bubbles on the side bubbled up 🙂

I am thinking of that alkaline buffer as well - just hesitating b/c it isn't mentioned in that article you linked.

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/23/2022 at 5:19 PM, Oreganoodle said:

I guess that depends what you mean by aeration. I let it sit in a large container with the lid off - occasionally kicking it as I walked by so that the air bubbles on the side bubbled up

airstone in the water for 24 hours (not in a tank, but just a cup or something).

On 5/23/2022 at 5:19 PM, Oreganoodle said:

I am thinking of that alkaline buffer as well - just hesitating b/c it isn't mentioned in that article you linked.

Correct.  The co-op recommends crushed coral for KH issues because it's a bit more stable long term.  The issue with buffers like what we're discussing is that you might have success for 1-2 weeks and then the buffer drops off. It's been reported with things like PH up and PH down and how this can actually emphasize swings.  There's been people who use baking soda and other common items to change water parameters as well. There is definitely options!  I will run some stability tests, but the seachem directions specifically point to a situation like yours where you use the acid buffer to drop PH, then alkaline buffer to boost the KH+PH back to normal at certain ratios. 

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[modified lung]

On 5/23/2022 at 3:33 PM, Oreganoodle said:

The KH was right around 3 and ph 7.4 - 7.6 ish. I was hoping to get the KH just a little higher

 ...Doubling the crushed coral had the effect of raising the ph to 8, but has not impacted the kh -- in fact the kh is now 2 (After about 3 weeks and average 10% water change/week). 

Sounds like something is consuming the CO2 and KH in your tank. Is this a new tanks? Or have you had any recent bacteria, algae, or greenwater blooms?

Unfortunately your crushed coral won't dissolve very well at your higher pH so your KH might not go up. You can add 1 tsp of baking soda to 35 gal to raise 1 KH. Don't do too much at a time.

The baking soda or crushed coral wont raise your pH above ~8.2. But if something is consuming the CO2 in your water, your pH might go to 9 or even 10 if there's no KH to buffer it. 

Adding KH will also increase how much CO2 your water can hold. But you have to be careful if you have a lot of ammonia or nitrate in your system because then you might just be feeding whatever is causing your problems.

 

 

[Oreganoodle]

On 5/24/2022 at 1:09 AM, modified lung said:

Is this a new tanks? Or have you had any recent bacteria, algae, or greenwater blooms?

The tank is 4-5 months old.  Recently algae did grow on the side for the first time, but it was pretty gradual - I don't really think it would count as a bloom.  I did add more carbon to the tank filter b/c I was worried about some weatherization work being done in the house and the chemicals getting in the tank.  That work wrapped up about a week ago and I was planning to leave it in til this weekend even though I don't think that the chemicals from the weatherization work ended up being that bad.  The only other thing that has changed is that 4 new baby fish were born - but I don't think the tank is overloaded.   I have 5 full grown platys, 4 plattys that are about 2 months old, and 4 1 week old plattys.  I intend to find a home for the 4 2 month old plattys shortly.

Other than that I am at a loss for what has changed.  Around 4 months ago is when I switched to RO water, and I keep the nitrates/ammonia down that way - generally I don't let the nitrate go about 20 ppm. However it is at 20 ppm now and I am hesitant to do a water change b/c my kh is now down to 1. 

When I first started with the RO water, I was waiting for crushed coral to get here in the mail (my nearest lfs is 45 min away); and I used small amounts of baking soda instead -- but ended up losing a fish to ph swings so I am very hesitant to go that route.

Any other suggestions?

 

[modified lung]

On 5/24/2022 at 2:53 PM, Oreganoodle said:

The tank is 4-5 months old.  Recently algae did grow on the side for the first time, but it was pretty gradual - I don't really think it would count as a bloom.  I did add more carbon to the tank filter

New carbon can raise pH. That might be it. Maybe the pH will return to normal after taking the carbon out. The KH could be dropping from natural causes or because of the ecosystem shift that carbon can cause.

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/23/2022 at 5:13 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I just ordered some of the alkaline buffer, I'll report back when it gets here and after a few weeks of use.

Water direct from tap:

Water after 24 hour Aeration

1/8 tsp of buffer added to ~4 gallons of water, then aerated for another 24 hours.

I apologize mif the testing is difficult to read. I did see a small improvement on this initial test. I also feel like randomly I'm having very low GH from some test results or my eyes are just tripping me out.  I hope it all looks "correct" as far as the way the buffer is supposed to work. I will give it a second look in the morning.