You should use a credit card when buying fish online

[2000tetras]

Most people don’t know this, but the credit card monopolies have legal charge dispute adjudication in their term agreements with vendors who accept credit card payments.
 

This means that you can file a chargeback dispute with your card issuer if a vendor gives you a unsatisfactory product like sickly or low quality fish. The card issuer has the legal authority to grant judgement against the vendor and force them to chargeback the amount you paid.

This is a tool that should be used judiciously as abusing it will get you banned from using it in the future. If you are having a dispute with a vendor even threatening to file a chargeback will often get them to comply with you as they do not want to deal with the adjudication process.

This applies to everything you buy with a credit card, but is especially useful when buying live fish online.
 

 

[Fish Folk]

I'm assuming you've gotten the short end of a stick here. Sorry to hear. Those fish look like they may have really cost you. As a buyer, your caution makes good, judicious sense.

I have another challenge to make note of...

As a breeder, there is a separate though somewhat related issue that sometimes occurs from the other side. Some buyers file a false DOA claim to a transaction management business which mediates the transaction but has terms that ultimately cater  to the buyer. The buyer's money is refunded leaving the breeder to argue over the issue without evidence. Any shipped hard goods may recovered by sellers, but both fish costs and shipping costs can be denied a refund due solely to the buyers assertion. 

A particular very respected full time professional breeder I corresponded recently conveyed a scenario that occurred about seven years ago where a buyer falsely claimed DOA. The transition company refunded the fish and shipping costs to the buyer. Through the grapevine, the breeder learned that the buyer had lied about the fish, and that they arrived perfectly healthy. This happened several times, forcing him to adjust his transition process and shipping means.

At bottom, some sense of dishonestly and a lack of transparency occurs in both your situation and some other good breeders.  

Truth is the most precious currency of all between people.

 

[2000tetras]

On 1/7/2022 at 11:57 PM, Fish Folk said:

I'm assuming you've gotten the short end of a stick here. Sorry to hear. Those fish look like they may have really cost you. As a buyer, your caution makes good, judicious sense.

I have another challenge to make note of...

As a breeder, there is a separate though somewhat related issue that sometimes occurs from the other side. Some buyers file a false DOA claim to a transaction management business which mediates the transaction but has terms that ultimately cater  to the buyer. The buyer's money is refunded leaving the breeder to argue over the issue without evidence. Any shipped hard goods may recovered by sellers, but both fish costs and shipping costs can be denied a refund due solely to the buyers assertion. 

A particular very respected full time professional breeder I corresponded recently conveyed a scenario that occurred about seven years ago where a buyer falsely claimed DOA. The transition company refunded the fish and shipping costs to the buyer. Through the grapevine, the breeder learned that the buyer had lied about the fish, and that they arrived perfectly healthy. This happened several times, forcing him to adjust his transition process and shipping means.

At bottom, some sense of dishonestly and a lack of transparency occurs in both your situation and some other good breeders.  

Truth is the most precious currency of all between people.

 

I just posted my Manacapuru Angels for the thumbnail picture, they are fine.

I would never use this process against a breeder acting in good faith. It is a system that is unfair to the small businessman. I was just sharing it because it is a tool that is useful to ensure you don't get stiffed when buying fish online

 

I have never actually filed a chargeback, but I used the threat of it recently to get money refunded when a seller sold me low quality angels with stumpy fins instead of the premium quality fish I paid for and then was refusing to make it right.

[Fish Folk]

On 1/8/2022 at 1:13 AM, 2000tetras said:

I just posted my Manacapuru Angels for the thumbnail picture, they are fine.

I would never use this process against a breeder acting in good faith. It is a system that is unfair to the small businessman. I was just sharing it because it is a tool that is useful to ensure you don't get stiffed when buying fish online

 

I have never actually filed a chargeback, but I used the threat of it recently to get money refunded when a seller sold me low quality angels with stumpy fins instead of the premium quality fish I paid for and then was refusing to make it right.

I would have done exactly as you did. It's a shame you got skimped. You big into angels? I like Discus. My son did some pretty basic Angel breeding couple years back. I enjoyed watching them develop. They used to play tug of war with live black worms. Hilarious watching them with those...

[Flumpweesel]

It's possibly an old-fashioned habit now but I have always used a credit card for any online or in the olden days mail order just for that extra protection. It's pretty much the only reason i still have a credit card.

PayPal is also very good at protecting the consumer in my experience.

It is unfortunate that people use this to treat sellers unfairly abusing systems designed to protect us is the quickest way to us losing them or venders have to increase their prices to offset the losses. The selfish really do spoil everything.

[Expectorating_Aubergine]

I used to sell plants online. Had people do this to me one too many times. The plants were fine. As a result I no longer sell plants online. It's a useful tool when used properly.