jwcarlson

I've just been feeding straight beef heart from recommendation of a guy who's been friends with Stendker reseller in the US (Discus Hans) for decades and has been feeding straight beef heart "forever". I'm in the US, so sourcing Stendker food isn't likely to be reasonably priced. 🙂 I paid about $110 for 60 pounds of beef hearts that already had some processing done (butterflied and much of the inside waste removed). I will end up with (conservatively) about 25 pounds of beef heart feed. So ~$4.50/pound and in total about six hours of time to trim and grind it. I processed about half of it a couple weeks ago and ended up with 14 pounds. Frozen, pre-made beef heart I've seen available is $20-25/pound and that probably doesn't include shipping? Mine also get freeze-dried Australian black worms, and Hikari (Vibra Bites and Discus Bio-Gold).

Beautiful fish, @Bevs1965! Did you grow them out or purchase adults? I do feed beefheart (my own grind) and freeze-dried australian black worms. Daily 70% water changes. 🙂 Going to look over the filter link.

@Beardedbillygoat1975 I think Etsy is probably where I'd seen them. Pogo grows really well for me in my community tank. I've got a bunch of it with all the other "clippings" in a bucket that I'm using to store plants I might want to use. But I really don't have any use for them, so it's a bit of a waste at the moment. Maybe someone locally would want them. Don't know if Pogo would like the heat in the discus tank, but considering it's just sitting in a bucket... what's the harm. Would do the diluted bleach sanitizing dip, probably. Also nervous of plants. Do you see a theme here? 😄 😄 Pothos is probably a fair compromise to start.

I've got the lights back on at like 5%, which honestly seems to keep them a little more settled on average. Might have to do with shadows/sillouettes. I'd say they're pretty well back to normal and "happy". They've adjusted really well to a sometimes chaotic house. A bit of a step back when moved back to the bigger tank, but that was short lived. They'll still rush up and eat from my hand when I'm putting food in and come greet (beg) anyone who walks to the tank. Discus seem pretty good about letting you know when they're stressed and they don't seem to be exhibiting anything noticeable right now. Lights were off for close to a week. Other than room lights or natural lighting. Today will be the first day that I put them back in "auto" except for turning them on during water changes so I could see a little better. I've thought about potting some plants and agree that it would be nice to do. I am not having luck with the val in my community tank. I have two pothos cuttings rooting in a jar and plan to add them to the tank at some point. Probably would have done it by now if not for the setback last week. I need to remember to pick-up something to hold them in the tank and simply have not remembered to do so. Also have some philodendron that I could make cuttings of. I have several cuttings from awhile back that are just now sending new shoots in a pot. So I guess I could unpot those and use them too. My only concern with pothos like that is that the freeze dried black worms get to floating around a bit and might be difficult to clean out. But I guess with a big water change I could pretty easily rinse roots out while I'm doing that. I'm thinking I'll put them in a shower caddy or something like that. I saw some 3D printed plant holders that would also be OK. Another thought was to do bamboo, but we're just now approaching a time in which I could have some bamboo shipped because of temperatures. My overall goal here is to grow these out which takes roughly a year to get closer to adult size (though I think they'll grow longer than that). And then consider transitioning to something else as far as the tank goes. Not sure what that might be. Community, planted, etc. Or maybe sell them all and put a bearded dragon in there. 😄 I cannot tell you the science behind wiping tanks down, but it seems universally recommended. I haven't wiped sides or bottom for a week between qt and now back to the big tank (understanding any time in qt doesn't translate the film over to the big tank). I'll let it slide for a bit 🙂

@Odd DuckIt's just sponges. Right now double stack, single, and one of the ones that hangs on the wall with two sponges about the size of soda cans. They're in a 75. Trying to keep it relatively low flow, I have been considering a smaller powerhead to connect to one of these sponges. But I'm enjoying "no" flow, honestly. Every tank I have ever had has always had at least one HOB, usually two, plus an air bubbler or wall. I do understand that the film is part of the BB, but have been cautioned about it harboring "bad stuff". However, I think I'm coming off that a little and will either rotate what parts I am wiping down or will maybe not start wiping at all until I get to the point of zero ammonia for a longer stretch. I do think that the large, daily water changes prevent a lot of issues one might otherwise see cycling with fish in. When my community tank dropped out of cycle I water changed my way through. It definitely slows down the cycling process, but if I'm doing the maintenance anyway... *shrug* On my community tank I did 50% water changes twice a day for about three weeks to get through it. Fish never seemed to skip a beat. Me seeking a sponge is simply part of trying to build a little safety margin. At this point the goal isn't to get cycled ASAP, it's to make sure the fish are OK through the process. I wouldn't just buy one of of ebay, but thought maybe there was someone "out there" selling fishless sponges or something. 😄 I have found some, but wouldn't be comfortable. Like I said, I could take one of three filters off of my community tank and plop it over. That would probably solve most of my cycling, but I would be nervous. And I would also be nervous about dropping a mail order sponge in... so I fully realize I'm talking out of both side of my mouth! 🙂 More than anything I'm just thinking out loud. Putting words "on paper" has always helped me think things through. Water checked out fine after work last night and I don't feed after WC so they're in pretty pristine water for roughly 12 hours. I'm still feeding at reduced levels, I don't think they'll be an issue it will just take awhile to get things rolling fully. @Brandon pThat's pretty awesome with the bees. Beekeeping has changed so drastically in the last 40 years. Can't imagine 100+ years! My dad and grandpa started keeping them in 1978. Kept them strictly as a hobby, but when varroa was introduced they couldn't keep anything alive over winter and eventually quit because of that. That's a lot of honey, I usually only produce 1500-2000# of honey per year. My bees do pay for themselves and then some. But honey harvest is actually my least favorite part of beekeeping. I am trying to find the balance of selling off enough nucs and queens to get things a little flatter on the honey production curve. I also haven't fed my bees in three years. I've got a system that works pretty well with timing of what flows we have as well as keeping extra deeps on production colonies so I can dole out frames of feed to nucs in the summer/fall instead of filling feeders. I winter in triple 10-frame deeps and sometimes a production colony will be 5 deeps and some (3-5) medium supers.

You certainly don't have to worry about offending me or anything 🙂 Re: overdoing it... maybe, but I'd to grow out really nice discus otherwise what's the point? 😄 My understanding is that means lots of food and pounding them with clean water. At this point my biggest mistake was dumping the Fritz Zyme in... that must have caused some sort of crash (ph?) or bacterial? Either way, it proved fatal. I believe that I can change my way through the cycle based on a pretty large number of discus folks that say they don't necessarily exchange sponges, they just do large daily changes with prime and stability and eventually filters catch up. Your thoughts are dissimilar to mine as I have not wiped down the sides or bottom for a couple days. I will probably wipe the front tomorrow. Then the sides the following day. Then the back/wires then bottom. I got right to the cusp of being cycled (ammonia and nitrites were 0 or maybe very very slightly above) before I blew it with the Zyme. My tap water starts at 7 and ages to ~8.2 over 24 hours. I am not currently doing anything to chase pH. My understanding is that while my pH is high (and my water is hard as all get out) as long as all of that is stable, it's not a concern. I cannot argue with any of this as my discus are (or at least were) growing very well. Except the little dude. I am tempted to crank up the temp in my 37 and plop him in there. When he was alone in the 10 gallon he didn't eat, but will only take a couple pecks when there's other discus around. So I'm wondering if maybe in a community tank he'd be willing to eat. I have sponges and filters in another tank that I could bring over, but am genuinely afraid because of cross contamination. Which might sound silly, but have seen enough and heard around about it that it doesn't seem worth it. If I was trying to only change water weekly while allowing ammonia and nitrite to build up, then I would be more concerned. As of now, I'm just trying for some safety factor. Yeah I've got bees. I raise queens for my own use and to sell. Also sell nucleus colonies and honey (obviously). It started as a little hobby, but, not to toot my own horn... I have a knack for it and have grown from three purchases colonies to about 40 of them now (eight years). It's morphed into a small business, which has probably taken a little bit of the fun out of it. The main problem with bees as that the time required to maintain them is typically during daylight hours. Hours of which are in short supply for me. Conversely, I do all my discus maintenance after everyone else is in bed. I've gotten exceedingly efficient at keeping bees over the years, though, and because I breed my own - over time I've got a bee that does pretty well with my management style. Here's one of my 2019 queens, pictured in spring 2021 (her second production year):

Still extremely bummed about being down to nine. But the remainder, minus the one that barely eats, are doing well. They do like their nightly water change.

I've got a male thick-lipped gourami (was sold as a honey) in our 37 gallon. In any event, he is pretty interactive and fun to watch. There's not a cubic inch of tank volume that he doesn't frequent. Literally everywhere all the time... patrolling? Not mean to anyone... gets along great with what has probably grown to about 50 cherry shrimp, 15 tetras of a couple different types, and some sterbai corys. Everyone seems to get along well. He particularly loves floating vegetation, will come peck at your finger, and eat flake out of your hand as well.

Cory, not sure what kind (Bronze maybe?). The fact that he was still long enough for you to get a picture is kinda sad as I think corys only have one speed (full). Would probably be ecstatic with some friends. Edit to add he looks maybe a little hungry too, but could be the angle.

I'm glad it's not just me. Checked again tonight... tank water was again about 7.8 or maybe 8. Aged water 8.2 MAYBE like 8.3 if I'm doing my guessing. Holding it out from the card might make a bit of a difference, I guess. It's still all guess work IMO. I will say, though, than an unreliable digital instrument is probably worse than the color coding guessing game.

I used these as weights on top of the sponges to hold them down, they weren't even completely under water. I did probably leave them in there a bit too long. To be clear, I am not complaining or anything. The other suggestion someone gave was to microwave. I'm sure microwaving the sponge would be fine. I do this to sanitize potting soil. But if you microwave the ACO sponge filter you're going to end up needing a new sponge filter or microwave or perhaps both. There's A LOT of metal in the base of it (which is what I did with one of the ruined one... whack it with a hammer until I could see inside of it).

I've always kind of figured this was the case. Or they have strips of some sort. I will say that the Co-Op strips were spot on for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate when I checked them against the API test kit. The argument could be made that the strips might be easier to detect traces of the things you're testing. I will say that I don't look at any of the other colors on the test strip though as my values are off scale for most of them and the pH colors are all too close for me to figure out (or at least I've yet to figure out how to tease out what I think that test is). Which is why I've posted this thread twice 😄

I don't understand why the plastic on the base would warp, but the rest wouldn't... but it doesn't much matter, frankly. It wasn't designed to be boiled, I'm sure. It was a suggestion on the discus forum and that felt cleaner to me than putting some chemical in it and then worrying if I rinsed it all out. Right now I forced one base on and double stacked a set of sponges. The other is quasi floating. Two bases totally useless. 😄 The discus are back in the big tank as of last night. They were happy to see me this AM, though we've certainly taken a step or ten back considering almost all of my interactions with them for a week have involved near-fatal (fatal for one) illness, hands grabbing fish, nets scooping when that doesn't work, etc. While the tank was getting sanitized and everything cleaned/sanitized, I painted "fake sand" on the bottom of the tank (to be clear on the bottom OUTSIDE) and change the background from black window film to blue. As a result the fish look really pale. Which I am not stoked about. They look really pathetic compared to in the 75 w/ black background (and even in the 10 which also has a black back). In their defense, it could be because they just got moved around and crammed into a bucket, a tiny tank, a bucket again... etc. But I think it's the background/bottom doing it. Kind of wishing I would have just left it as is because the fish looked fantastic in person. I've seen so many people say that discus show color best against blue and light colored bottoms. So I'll give this some time and see. Exponentially more concerned with their health at this point, for sure. Can always change the background down the line again.

It's 2022 and I find myself asking why the testing technology for aquarium water is the same as it was 15+ years ago. Also why haven't we come up with grass that doesn't need to be mowed, but we have crops that can get plant killer dumped on them and not die. How we don't have a $50 testing widget that you just dump water in and it spins around for five minutes and then prints you a little receipt for the results is beyond me. I do wonder what stores use to test your water. Everyone holds that up as though it's a very good option. I've never done it, but wondering what fancy thing they've got... And how expensive it is 😄

Don't waste a bunch of time. 🙂 I believe you. I'm really good at following directions and it frustrates me to know end when a company means something different than what they write in their instructions. For example, how hard is this? (not shooting the messenger, by the way) 4. Read the test results by comparing the color of the solution to the pH Color Card. The tube should be viewed in a well-lit area looking through the side of the test tube towards the white area of the card with a one inch space between the tube and the card. The closest match indicates the pH of the water sample. Rinse the test tube with clean water after use.

How'd he get sand in there? And to stick there like that?

Interesting... the instructions (I believe) say "against a white background" which to me would indicate it, well... against it haha. Let me see if I can find the instructions. Might not be the most current version of instructions, but this is more or less what it says in mine. I have heard some people say that you can pop the cap and look "down" the tube against white, but I tried that and there's absolutely no way that would be possible (unless it was backlit or something, which kind of defeats the purpose).

After testing again and re-looking, I think left is 8.2. Right is 8.0. On standard test water on right is clearly off charts high. On Co-Op test strips the color looked the same for pH, but I don't look for specifics from strips. I age my water be cause it comes out of the tap at pH 7 and ages to 8.2. Last night I just decided to do a test and see how far off my discus tank was from their temporary tank so I didn't drop them into a massive pH difference and then saw a pretty big difference (in color at least). So I added a quart of water into the 10 gallon every 7 minutes for about an hour and rechecked. The color resulted looked like I'd mixed the two results pictured, so I figured that means they were closer. So I moved the fish over last night. They seemed OK this AM and ate. Larger issues going on last week that I won't get into here. My bigger complaint about the API test set is the colors for pH look absolutely nothing like they do in the tubes (at least to my eye). The ammonia/nitrite/nitrate seem to track pretty well. But the pH it feels like I am 100% guessing at what the color is actually trying to show. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that my "8.2" is actually off the charts high and my pH is like 9.4 in reality.

These are both high range tests. Done at least twice to confirm same results. What would you call left and right? Left is water from my aging barrels, right is from a tank I currently have 10 discus in on emergency situation. It's a 10 gallon. Has some ammonia and nitrites, will that drive it lower?

I boiled my sponges. Which destroyed the bases on my co-op filters 😞 Whoops. Taking this opportunity to paint the bottom (outside) and change the background. Peroxided the inside wiped/scrubbed everything 3+ times. Rinsed a bunch. Will rinse and scrub again tomorrow, it's all dry right now on end so I could paint it. Got a good source to buy seeded sponges? Thankfully the little sponge filter in the 10 gallon now is keeping nitrite at zero. I didn't test ammonia. Very very very light feeding in the 10 gallon to hopefully just keep them from slipping any further back. When I put the big tank back together and put filtration back in, should I squeeze that smaller sponge into the tank and let the bigger ones slurp up the leavings? Or maybe squeeze it into a bucket of dechlored water so it doesn't drop a bunch of gunk in the tank. That would be easy enough. Put the little filter in the big tank and could feed the filters in the bucket easy enough. I've got more filters coming from the Co-Op because right now all of them in the tank are going to be baseless and floating around. 😄 I tend to have a good cascade of problems once one thing goes wrong. All the other plastic on the filters was fine, but the bases bubbled up like they inflated internally. The top ring where the center tube thing that holds the sponge shrunk down by about 20% so nothing fits on it. The good thing is the fish seem "ok" for the time being. I am, however, very disappointed that I didn't move them sooner. Live and learn. I'll spare the dead fish pic, but it was a beautiful "blue diamond". I only bought two of them and was really considering getting ten just of them. He was already 3.25" long.

Yeah I have a community tank in which everyone seems healthy. My only hangup is the "cross contamination" issue that seems pretty prevalently spoken about in discus circles. There's a guy that I might be able to have ship me a sponge, I vaguely remember him saying he keeps sponges ready for new discus keepers... I'd pay him handsomely for one right now.

I don't necessarily disagree... but I already wipe the inside walls down every evening with water change. Wipe the bottom when I can't get it clean (about every other change). And same with the inside of the lids. Also wipe down the wires/tubes/heaters nightly and then every few days unhook the air hoses and clean the areas inside the sponge tubes. I'm increasingly worried that something entered the system somehow. But I used all the same hoses, barrels, etc to fill the hospital tank. The difference between the two tanks are the filters. I don't know... my mind is racing and at this point there's not much to do but wait. I've already drained the 75... I'm nuking the whole thing, "cycle" be darned. I'm already wrapping my head around putting the same sponges back in at all, honestly. Enough of my rambling. Nothing to do but wait at this point.

Thanks 🙂 In the 10 gallon the change was... almost instantaneous. The one who was previously in the tank started pecking at stuff. The rest of them except one went after a little piece of beef heart after they'd been in there for an hour or so. They didn't eat much, but they hadn't faced the front of their tank since Wednesday. They're at least scooting around this little tank. What's the best way to completely sterilize everything? I'm talking wipe everything out in all the sponges and everything.

One dead this evening, probably only a matter of time now. The remaining all joined the QT tank. No idea what to do with the 75. I am stumped. Fin damage on tails, backs of dorsals, and pectoral now too. Really difficult to believe a bottle of Fritz Zyme did this especially considering the single guy got a few glugs of the same bottle. Really depressing. They seemed unchanged this AM which I took for a good sign. 😞

@Torrey I appreciate your reply. I am not fretting too much after they weren't dead this afternoon and they weren't doing any tiltawhirl maneuvers. I am aware of the mighty discuses' famed finicky-ness, which is probably part of the allure, if I am honest. I like a challenge. And I am hard on myself when I make mistakes. I am unsure what possessed me to put the stuff in, but maybe I am over focusing on that and not attributing enough to the water temp. But they're been dealing with going from 86ish down to 83 pretty much daily. BUT water changes have been stepping up daily from 40% now to 70%. Thankfully the heater showed up so aged water should better match tank temp from here out. The point about low fish on the totem pole is not lost on me and I waited about 10 days to finally move him. He does not seem ill at all, but seems to just not be interested in eating. If he doesn't start in a week, I am not sure what I will do. Thinking back, I also finished a bottle of stability and decided not to open a new one. So this could be any number of things, which stinks... But I troubleshoot and fix stuff for a living, so I think I am up for the challenge. And not unprepared to lose "livestock" as I raise honey bees and chickens. The next 8ish hours should hopefully help me further access what is going on. And I won't even attempt feed until they start begging again, if they get back to that point. And it's only been 3.5 weeks, so maybe I screwed it up right before we exited the first tunnel. 🤣 One, perhaps not often pondered, side effect of a bare bottom might be that there is less surface area for bacteria, and I am wiping almost every surface every other day(rotating a bit). I have three large co-op sponge filters, and one of the sponge filters with finer sponges (two about the size of soda cans). So I should have entry of aeration and surface area for bacteria in the sponges, I think. Cory and Zenzo answered my question on the member stream today, which was unrelated to all of this, actually. But has been the subject of a lot of my thoughts about flow rate vs bacterial colony "size". Gave me some things to think about.