mbwells

Hello everyone! I want to note quickly that I'm *not* trying to sell fish on this forum. Just asking about general avenues I could pursue should I wish to sell the fish at a reasonable price so I could populate the tank with other inhabitants. Barring that, I'd like some general advice on how to swap out an unsatisfactory substrate for something better for my water. I have a 40 gallon breeder with 42 white cloud fish, a number of Malaysian trumpet snails, and 4 Amano shrimp. I have 14 Tanichthys albonubes (mostly gold white clouds, but a few wild type), 14 Tanichthys micagemmae (Vietnamese white clouds), and 14 Tanichthys kuehnei (yellow or lemon white clouds). The fish are maintained in a heavily planted tank at a pH of 6.4 to 6.6 using a UNS Controsoil substrate. I've been dissatisfied with the Controsoil substrate. My water comes out of the tap naturally soft and slightly acidic, so frankly it's not the best setup for where I live. I was thinking about changing out the substrate for gravel with some crushed coral. I have a 20 gallon aquarium with some orange hatchet danios, and I like the setup much better. However, I've been feeling lately that it's likely a waste for me to keep the tank as it's set up. The T. micagemmae and T. kuehnei fish in particular aren't that common, and really would be best maintained in separate species tanks by a hobbyist who is capable of maintaining these populations indefinitely, and my apartment just doesn't have room for that. I was thinking about instead getting a decent size school of pearl danios (Danio albolineatus). I feel terrible contemplating giving up the fish, but I was wondering if any fish keepers here could let me know if there's any options for me selling fish locally at a price that could cover at least the cost of a school of danios. A swap would be even better. I don't know how often fish keepers move fish around. Of course, I may ultimately just keep the fish and change the substrate out, because I frankly feel guilty even contemplating giving the fish up. I don't know if the fish recognize their owners or if they are distressed when they get moved somewhere. Is it possible to change the substrate to gravel and crushed coral with the fish I already have? I have concerns with having the pH rising gradually with the crushed coral might not be good for them. Any general advice on any of these avenues would be greatly appreciated!

Really appreciate your help as always @Colu!! I hope that this is just a one-off sort of thing, and not an indication that my water chemistry won't suit this fish species long term. I had thought their care requirements were the same as other white cloud species.

Dear friends, I could really use some advice on a concerning development in my 40 gallon breeder aquarium. I have a yellow white cloud (Tanichthys kuehnei) in my tank with a bulge on his head and slightly protruding eyes (can't see in this photograph). I change my water every 2 weeks (just did one last evening in fact) and my water chemistry is as follows: pH: 6.4 Hardness: 75 ppm Alkalinity: 0 (I use Controsoil, which buffers the water to 6.4 using an organic acid buffer. So, the alkalinity reading *should* be 0.) Ammonia: 0, as you'd expect at such a low pH Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 20 - 50 ppm The temperature ranges between 72 and 74 F (I don't use a heater) Fish: 14 Tanichthys albonubes, 16 Tanichthys micagemmae, and 16 Tanichthys kuehnei I'm concerned by the appearance of this disease because it indicates that I am either not performing routine maintenance (which is not so), or, more alarmingly, that the water parameters I'm keeping the fish in aren't appropriate for the species. I'm also keeping them with Tanichthys albonubes and Tanichthys micagemmae, and these water conditions seem to be doing quite well for them. The other Tanichthys kuehnei fish also seem fine, though, I have to say. They're growing and spawning. I don't know what the bulge on the fish's head is. It *could* be an injury I suppose, but I know that in injuries typically only 1 eye is affected. As a precaution, I'm already treating with Maracyn, since the eyes are slightly bulged. The fish's activity and appetite seems normal, so hopefully I caught it early enough to treat. @WhitecloudDynasty any advice on how this could have happened, and if I should treat further beyond Maracyn?

@WhitecloudDynasty you have given me so much relief. Boy I’m sure glad I waited!! The moment I saw that patch I was about to dump Maracyn in my tank in a panic. Great lesson for a first time fish keeper! By the way, I have a heavily planted aquarium, but do you know if white clouds might like particular plants, decorations, or caves or something? I love my white clouds and I’d like to make my tank white cloud heaven! Got about 45 in a 40 gallon breeder. Nothing else but a few snails.

@WhitecloudDynasty thank you so much for your reply!! I posted some pictures above in my initial post. There’s 4 of them. The problem now is that I can’t find the male that head patch, and I did a head count and I’m not missing any fish. Coincidentally, my males aren’t fighting anymore. I guess it isn’t anything I need to medicate…

I can't believe I've never made this connection. Come to think of it, within an hour after the male beats one of my leaves, I see multiple white clouds around my Cryptocoryne plants picking around my substrate.

Ok, I'm completely flummoxed right now. Does anyone know why the gold patch is fading in intensity? I'm having a hard time finding the sick (?) fish among my males after an hour has passed. I don't get it. I could spot that gold patch from several feet away from my tank, now I struggle to find it when my face is pressed against the glass. @WhitecloudDynasty, have you ever kept yellow white clouds (Tanichthys kuehnei)? I'm starting to wonder if a dominant male gets a kind of golden crest on the top of their head, since my females *just* started to get gravid. But my Tanichthys albonubes and Tanichthys micagemmae do *not* seem to get dominant male coloration.

If someone could look at this picture and tell me whether this is a bacterial infection, I'd greatly appreciate it. Ordinarily, I wouldn't hesitate to medicate, but the problem is I don't know of any bacterial infection that would give my fish a *gold* colored patch!! It certainly isn't fungal - the patch doesn't stretch out into space in any way, shape, or form. As you can see, the male is fighting vigorously, and ate vigorously this morning as well. Some pictures include other yellow white clouds to show what they normally look like. As for parameters: Temp: 70F pH: Ranges from 6.4 to 6.6 over the course of the day Ammonia: None at this low pH Nitrite: 0 ppm Nitrate: Currently, 25 ppm. Always fluctuates between 10 ppm and 40-50 ppm Gh: ~75 ppm Kh: I use controsoil, which removes the carbonate buffer, so my Kh is always 0. However, controsoil has an organic based buffer that keeps my pH right at 6.4 to 6.6 without fail. In 5 months of operating my aquarium, I've never seen a reading outside of this range. @Colu, any ideas on this?

@Biotope Biologist that is a huge relief to hear that that can be a dominance behavior among at least some fish. I’ve dealt with flashing before and on the surface this can look like flashing. It turned out that I had bought a rare danio species, Danio nigrofasciatus, that requires unusually warm temperatures, and my 74 degree tank was causing the issue. The flashing was an all day occurrence with both males and females and disturbingly the fish used plants, substrates, rocks, and the filtration to get relief. This is why I’ve been slow to medicate with this. I’m new to fish keeping, but I just couldn’t understand if this was a gill fluke or water quality issue why the behavior was so predictable and of short duration. One thing I’ve noticed is that these intense sparring matches (well, intense for white clouds 🤣🤣🤣) began when I added Tanichthys kuehnei to my tank. T. albonubes has never been territorial for me. Male T. micagemmae can be weakly territorial. However, male T. kuehnei is pretty territorial. They have favorite spots and they actively chase away all other fish. Cryptocorynes are favorite spawning places, and the other two species will actually fight the male kuehnei over those spaces. Maybe adding all 3 species together caused this aggression.

I watch almost everything Aquarium Co-Op produces @Cory. Your wonderful videos got me into the hobby and they remain a source of enjoyment and knowledge as I take care of my own 40 gallon breeder full of white clouds. Really appreciate all you guys do for the hobby!!

I'm a first time fish keeper. Only been doing it for 4 months or so. I have ~45 white clouds in a 40 gallon breeder. I can say without question that any of the 3 white cloud species, the white cloud mountain minnow (Tanichthys albonubes), the Vietnamese white cloud (Tanichthys micagemmae), or the yellow white cloud (Tanichthys kuehnei) are an absolute joy to keep. The only water parameter they are picky over is temperature (I'd say upper 60s to mid 70s is ideal, and anything close to 80 downright dangerous), they spawn easily even when fed freeze dried foods and spirulina flakes, and they surprisingly intelligent and active. Gold white cloud mountain minnows are as colorful as any tropical fish, are dirt cheap, and are easy to find. But I'd say the somewhat less common Vietnamese white cloud is the most stunning, as males develop gorgeous long finnage. They also have a beautiful fluorescent neon band that is a fascinating mixture of pink and cyan. The yellow white cloud, which is actually exceedingly hard to come by (couldn't believe I was lucky enough to get some!!), isn't as impressive visually as either gold or Vietnamese white clouds and I wouldn't recommend the expense and trouble of tracking them down for a beginner. I'm thinking about getting a smaller 20 gallon aquarium as well. I'm currently trying to decide whether I'd want to get a bunch of orange hatchet danios or rocket killifish in there. If anyone has experience with either species let me know!!

Thought I'd say that all the white clouds have a health appetite. I give them a steady diet of Fluval Bug Bites, freeze dried blood worms and Daphnia from Hikari, and Xtreme spirulina flakes.

Hello friends!! Hope everyone is doing well. I have a 40 gallon breeder set up with about 15 fish each from the gold white cloud mountain minnow (Tanichthys albonubes), the Vietnamese white cloud (Tanichthys micagemmae), and the yellow white cloud (Tanichthys kuehnei). I've never seen a tank where someone had all 3 species of white clouds so I thought it would be fun to set that up. I have a question about some strange behavior I've noticed. I have to say at the outset that I have far more males than females, and I have females that are ready to spawn almost every day. As you can imagine, the sparring between males gets ... intense sometimes. This usually takes the form of the males flaring their fins at each other, or chasing, but sometimes several males will stubbornly fight around my Cryptocoryne tropica and Cryptocoryne wendtii red plants. The chasing and flaring lasts for anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes and ends when one of my males will dramatically swim over to the same few leaves on each plant and thwack them vigorously with his tail. This happens several times, the male swimming around the plant erratically and hitting the leaves for about 10 to 15 seconds, and then stops. Again, it's bizarre but it's always the same few leaves on each plant as well. At first, I thought this was flashing, and gave a treatment of ParaCleanse. The treatment had no effect, and I started noticing that this behavior is *repeatable* but only during the early morning and late afternoon (when my lights either start slowly growing or waning in intensity). Other than these regular sparring sessions, I never see this behavior! And curiously, I never see this flashing like behavior in females, just whatever male happens to "win" the sparring match. Moreover, it's the same broad leafed plants (the crypts) not my sponge filter or Ziss bio bubble filter, or my stem plants rotala or wisteria. Is this a normal behavior for male white clouds? If not, is it flashing? The behavior has gone on for over a month now. The fishes external coloration and appearance is immaculate, and my water parameters are always consistent: pH: 6.4 to 6.6 (buffered with Controsoil) Temp: 72 to 74 degrees this time of year (I don't heat the aquarium) Hardness: Somewhere between 50 and 75 ppm Ammonia: always zero as you'd expect at my low pH Nitrite: always zero Nitrate: Anywhere from 10 to 40 ppm (I always change water at 40 ppm) and add Easy Green three times a week Any insight from a fellow white cloud keeper would be greatly appreciated!

@BrettD I have never kept flagfish at all. No experience with them. However, I looked over a number of forums and saw several people keeping their flagfish with crypts with no problems. The general consensus is that flagfish will voraciously consume duckweed (and possibly other floating plants) when they no longer have a good source of algae. If the tank doesn't have enough decorations so males can stake out a specific area as "their" territory, then you can also have aggression issues. Those are the only issues I've seen. Sorry I couldn't offer any first hand experiences.

@nabokovfan87, thank you for your suggestion! However, I would strongly prefer to maintain the Asian theme of my tank, so I'd be more likely to get some neocardinia shrimp or dwarf anchor cats over corydoras. I hope one day to do a large South American tank however with a large school each of tetras, corydoras, and hatchetfish!