Tam

I'm by no means the most experienced with keeping plants but I've struggled with keeping certain plants thriving myself so I've gone through a lot of trial and error, specifically with stem plants that I could never get growing well in my substrate. In my personal experience at least I couldn't get them growing well with just root tabs and inert substrate and found that a nutrient rich substrate is what finally got them going. I've very recently hit a bit of a stride in general with my plants so I thought I'd chime in and ask how long you keep your light on for? Previously I had a hard time keeping mine on for more than, say, 6 hours tops without algae taking over, but now that I've finally managed to keep it on for 8 my plants are already doing much better, growing more and larger leaves, having better coloring and looking healthier in general. I would also recommend getting some sword plants because they were the only heavy root feeders that did well in my tank when everything else was struggling. From all the research I've done baby tears also are a difficult plant to keep without high light and co2.

That's a relief! I just added the day 2 packet, held me breath when I opened it to avoid the initial cloud of powder and then mixed it in a glass before pouring it in, thanks for the tip! I don't actually have any carbon, is it necessary to use it or is it fine to just let it dilute out with regular water changes?

Thank you, you've set my mind at ease 😅

It won't let me upload a video...? But here are screenshots from the videos I took, the first one is after I first added it and the second one is what I took just now about 4 hours later. There's even more now... 😐

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea I might've already discovered that the hard way 😂

Oh good, I was getting worried. It's been a couple hours now and there's still a lot of fizzing/foaming in the bubbles over my sponge filter... I'll probably do this for the next dose tomorrow so it can disperse through the water more easily. I also made up the catappa leaf tea today and added some, so my water is looking quite dark/yellow. I won't add quite that much in the longterm but right now I wanted to add a lot in the hopes it could help with any pathogens as well 🤷‍♀️ Thanks again for all your help! I get really nervous whenever I try new things with my tanks, like right now even though it specifically says on the package that the medicine is safe for snails I'm still worried it'll hurt my nerites... on one hand I don't actually want to have snails anymore because they're so messy, but I'm still attached and don't want anything to happen to them.

So I just did the water change on my 10 gallon and added the first packet of maracyn to it after and it immediately started fizzing and making a lot of bubbles above my sponge filter, is that supposed to happen?? I feel like it's immediately killing off my beneficial bacteria 😬 I mean it's still a better option to kill off bad things than just tearing down the entire tank and starting over, and I know some beneficial bacteria will be caught in the crossfire, but anytime something unexpected happens it makes me nervous... @nabokovfan87 Has this happened for you?

Got it, thank you! Perfect, I'll definitely be using this! I already have hydrogen peroxide in a spray bottle that I use against bugs on my houseplants.

Oh that's great, I actually sprayed it down with hydrogen peroxide when I initially cleaned it out but I wasn't sure if it was enough so I also did the bleach. I currently have the tank back on its stand and filled up with water and like ten pumps of the fritz water conditioner since I don't know how much is needed. Also hoping the tank still holds water, it's a pretty cheap tank with unnervingly thin glass and every time I bumped it even slightly while cleaning it I was cringing. A part of me wouldn't mind if it leaked and gave me the excuse to upgrade the tank, but otherwise I can't quite justify the expense on top of everything else 😆

@nabokovfan87 @Chick-In-Of-TheSea Duly noted, clearly the dishwasher is a bad idea, thanks guys! I'll just make liberal use of the dechlorinator after very thoroughly rinsing. I have a lot to learn 😅

Thanks again @Chick-In-Of-TheSea, this video was a great watch in general! Hearing about her experience spreading columnaris to her other fish was so sad but validating in a way, it's something that happens to pretty much everyone at some point, no one can be perfect. Right now I have the filter from Jupiter's tank along with the spiderwood and a few little lava rocks in one of my 3 gallon QT tanks with the rabbit snail that was his tankmate, so I just need to sterilize the heater for now since it's the only thing I plan to reuse aside from the tank itself, well and the net, I wonder if I can bleach dip that too? I'm not sure what to do with bunny, I'm worried about putting him in my 10 gallon or into the 16 or 6 when they're up and running in case he has contaminants on him or something... So long as the dishwasher won't hurt the tank or something I think I might just do it anyway, I feel like it will be able to do a much better job of rinsing the tank of bleach than I can, and maybe I can throw the net in there as well. I have fritz complete water conditioner that I bought to have on hand even though I'm on well water and don't technically need something that removes chlorine, I assume that would work instead of the seachem safe? I was going to just do several pumps of it since I don't know how many exactly would be needed. I think I might start a sort of Journal thread on here once I get going on my 16 gallon and 6 gallon tanks to document the whole process since I have a lot of ideas and am really excited about it, and the methods I'm going to be using are new to me, just to sort of keep track of it all for myself but also if anyone wants to follow along and maybe has tips or advice. I will probably put updates on my 10 gallon on there as well. I don't know if anyone would be interested in following along but I think I would enjoy writing about it. I'd like to participate on here in ways that aren't just asking for help when I have a sick fish. I really enjoy the community here, everyone has been so great! I've never been a part of a forum before so I hope I don't end up doing it wrong or something, I don't really know the etiquette 😆

Gotcha, thanks! All right, I had a peek at the box and it says it's safe for snails, so maybe I'll just leave them in, though it still makes me a little nervous. I think I'll give it a try, if there's a chance it could help reduce pathogens I think it's worth it, and I trust your personal experience! I don't have any visible cyanobacteria right now after swapping out the tank and the substrate and having a couple black out days, but I don't trust that it's actually gone, that stuff is stubborn! I'll probably start the treatment at my next scheduled water change. I do have another question if you don't mind. I've taken down Jupiter's tank and am working on disinfecting it, since I've decided I want to use it to dry start some plants and then possibly fill it up later and decide in time what I want to put in it. Right now I have a mixture of 1 cup bleach to 9 cups water in a spray bottle and am spraying it down several times throughout the day and letting it sit, and then I was thinking about sending it through a high heat cycle in my dishwasher without any detergent. Do you think that 1. it would be safe to put it in the dishwasher and 2. if this is enough to sterilize it? Do you have any other methods of sterilizing? I'm really paranoid and want to be thorough about it. I won't be reusing any of the hardscape or plants I had in it and will be starting over from scratch. I'm going to bleach dip the heater and I have an unused HOB filter I'm going to use for it down the line.

I only added the controsoil recently when I swapped out the tanks, it's been in there for maybe two weeks and actually the tank appears to be doing really well right now. I tested the ammonia a few days after adding it and it was 0ppm, and when I tested it again when I cleaned the tank the other day it was stil at 0, so no ammonia spike. When I made all the tank changes I kept using all my hardscape/plants/filter so there's still a lot of beneficial bacteria in there keeping my nitrogen cycle going. Is treating the tank with maracyn safe for the beneficial bacteria? And the plants/snails? I've heard about people using maracayn for cyanobacteria but I was hesitant to try it because I didn't know if it would affect my beneficial bacteria and I didn't want to risk crashing my tank. I've been wondering if there was anything that I could add to the tank like an antibiotic that could also help get rid of any pathogens, so if the maracyn is safe it's very tempting to try since I have it on hand as well. I'm a little confused though because I'm seeing different instructions on how to dose it, on the box it says to add one package every day for 5 days, but on the ACO page it says to add just one package and let it sit for a week and then do a 25% water change. I think either way I'll probably add catappa leaves/tea since it can't hurt anything and it has antibacterial properties so maybe it'll help kill any pathogens 🤷‍♀️ I plan on using it in my tanks once there are fish in there again anyway since it's so healthy for them. Thank you for the article on GH/KH/PH, it was very helpful! I'll have to get my tests and check them all out, now that I have the controsoil especially I want to see if it's dropped my PH at all like it says it's supposed to. I'm not really sure what else to do to drop the PH since the water coming out of my tap has a naturally high PH. I love the hydrocotyle too! It's one of my favorite plants to have in an aquarium, I'd really love to have it growing up out of my tank as well, it's so cute. And I'll add the article on shrimp to my to-read list. Thanks again @nabokovfan87 & @Odd Duck for all the useful information, you're keeping me busy 😁

Oh wow! When I tried to do some research on it it said they should be kept in minimum 20 gallon but if I could keep one in a 10 that would be amazing, I'm really tempted to try that after the shrimp have had at it in there for a few months. Those videos were both really enjoyable, especially the second one, that alien betta was stunning and I loved listening to them talk! I didn't start doing the large water changes until after Lucien had died and only the snails were in there because I was trying to clean it out as much as possible, before that I was doing a roughly 25% water change once a week. The snails themselves have been blithely unaware of everything going on around them. I actually struggled with the tank for quite a while getting the plants to thrive, I was previously using an inert substrate and I recently swapped it out for UNS controsoil because I just really couldn't get anything to thrive in it even with root tabs, aside from a couple swords, and since I didn't have any well established plants growing in the substrate I've always vacuumed a lot. I had no idea how messy those two nerite snails would be, once they're gone I don't think I'll be keeping snails anymore. As it is I have a rabbit snail that was Jupiter's tank mate that I have no idea what to do with now since I don't want to keep Jupiter's tank as it is. I've also struggled with just about every kind of algae and also cyanobacteria in my 10 gallon, it's only in the last couple of months that I've been able to get things a bit more under control. Even so I've had a hard time having the light on for more than, like, 6 hours without algae taking over. Since I just added in some new healthy plants in the last couple weeks along with the fresh substrate I've been trying to keep the light on for 8 hours, but after a week I still need to get in there and clean up some algae because I don't want it to get out of control again. It's been a really long road with this tank which is why now that things are doing better I'm so resistant to the idea of just nuking it and starting over, I'm really attached to it. Plus in my heart it will always be Lucien's tank, and the thought of taking it down is really upsetting. As for the water parameters, ammonia and nitrite are 0ppm, nitrates are usually around 5ppm but that's because I dose with fertilizer, otherwise the plants keep it at 0. PH is somewhat high because that's how my tap water is naturally, it's sits at around 8, though I haven't tested it since adding the controsoil, it says on the package that it lowers PH, but that wouldn't really reflect anything regarding Lucien because I didn't change it until after he died. I have a preset heater that keeps the water temp at 78, I plan to get an adjustable one before I put another fish in there. Regarding GH and KH, I don't know what those are. I can test everything afresh but I'm afraid it wouldn't give a clear picture of what things were like when Lucien got sick since I've made changes to the tank since then. The last time I tested GH and KH it was several months ago and I don't remember exactly what they were, just that they were in an acceptable range. I'm not sure how helpful any of that is! At this point I guess I'm not really trying to figure out how Lucien died since I've accepted it's probably not possible, I just want to do everything I can to make sure the tank is as safe as possible for another fish, without actually starting over from scratch. I'm getting quite excited at the prospect of keeping shrimp now, though I still don't want a whole lot of them, so if slightly cooler temps result in less breeding I'm fine with that. I'm actually toying with the idea of repurposing Jupiter's tank, since I have no attachment to it I'm fine with completely disinfecting it and starting over. I want to use it to dry start some moss on lava rock and some carpeting plants, I'm thinking monte carlo and hydrocotyle tripartita, and then maybe using it as a dedicated shrimp tank. If I did that I could do like you said and use one of my other tanks, whichever has a betta in it, as a cull tank. Thanks for all the ideas and inspiration and help! 😁

I really wish I could go to ACO to pick out a betta but it's a little too far for me. Both my bettas were plakats and I got them from a great place local to me in Portland called The Wet Spot, I actually learned about them through a video on the ACO channel and was stoked to find out they were local. I know that auqa huna is associated with ACO, do you know much about their bettas? I could potentially order one from there, though I'm very nervous about having a fish shipped to me, I'd be so worried something would happen to them. I will check out Jimmy Gimbal and also the thread about the Bolivian ram you mentioned! Actually the one fish outside of a betta that I've been interested in is a ram of some kind, but from what I understand a 10 gallon tank is too small for one, even the 16 gallon would be pushing it on the small side, and when it comes to the 16 gallon if I'm starting a fresh and uncontaminated tank 10 times out of 10 I will choose to put a betta in it, I love them even if they're so difficult. The heart wants what it wants! Thanks so much, I looked forward to reading through it! The tank itself has actually been empty of fish since the beginning of November when Lucien died, and I've done weekly 50% minimum water changes since then, usually more than 50%, especially in the first month when I was doing like 75-80% water changes. After Lucien died I worked really hard not to let any cross contamination happen between his and Jupiter's tanks but having Jupiter die just makes me nervous about Lucien's tank again, in case it got any contamination from Jupiter's tank despite my efforts. Do you think that catappa leaves, tea or otherwise, could help reduce any potentially present pathogens? I haven't been using it in the tank since there wasn't a fish in it. I don't really expect the shrimp to work magic or anything, it's a good idea but I'm mostly interested in having something in there other than just the snails because I'm so sad looking over at the tank, and I've always liked the shrimp. If they can help clean up anything that's a bonus but I won't hang my hat on it. I mostly wanted the blue + red ones just because I like the colors, I guess I'll have to choose one or the other which is fine. That's funny that people have tried to breed them to make purple, I wouldn't have even thought of that! How quickly do the shrimp breed? I'm a little worried about the population getting out of control without a fish in there to eat the babies. I was thinking I'd just start off with 10 of them since I vastly prefer an understocked tank, and I already have the two nerite snails in there who make enough mess on their own. I'll try not to beat myself up too much over the loss of my fish and do my best to learn from it. Talking things out has made me feel a little better about everything and encouraged me to keep going and keep trying, I really appreciate all the info and help and kind words! I'm incredibly grateful to have found this forum. I had no idea there were even vets who could treat fish, that's amazing to me. If anyone is curious this is the tank in question, I just did a water change and thorough cleaning yesterday so it's looking nice and tidy at the moment.

With regards to fish I'm really only interested in keeping bettas, I'm so devastated to have lost both my little guys, I loved them so much and really tried my best for them even if it wasn't enough. The fact that they died within two months of each other when I know there had to have been contamination between the tanks really makes me think it was the same thing, plus the similar symptoms and how quickly they went after the onset of the really obvious ones, but there were a couple things that were slightly different so I guess it's not impossible. And clearly I don't really know very much about this. I'm not sure if that's better though, on one hand it would mean there wasn't contamination, on the other it means I had two different things kill my fish which makes me think I really am just bad at fish-keeping. I just don't know how these illnesses get into tanks in the first place? It's not like I ever slacked off on cleaning, I was always very consistent about it. I'm warming to the idea of getting some shrimps for the tank, though, and letting them have at it for a few months, and then down the line I can decide if I want to risk putting another betta in there. I'm not sure how well they would cohabitate, though I've seen some people pull it off. I've always kind of liked watching the shrimp, maybe a mix of red cherry shrimp and blue velvet shrimp. Do you think I would need to wait the minimum of a month before introducing shrimp too? I think for right now I'm going to focus on getting my 16 gallon going, and I'm going to work extremely hard at preventing any contamination. I love the hobby and the thought of stopping here is upsetting to me, like I can't imagine not having a tank up and a little betta buddy. Already I realize how I'm constantly looking over at them without even thinking about it, now that my fish are both gone and there's no one to look at. It feels very sad at feeding time too 😞 I really appreciate your replies, thank you again! It's been really hard not feeling like a total failure and like if I'd been better my fish would still be alive. It's so frustrating having this mysterious illness and feeling like there's no way to completely get rid of it without destroying everything I've worked so hard on for the past year and half. I suppose following people on social media who have tanks and seeing them keep their bettas for a long time with no illness doesn't help, it makes me wonder what they're doing right that I'm doing wrong. Thank you, I appreciate your kindness!

@Odd Duck Thank you, unfortunately Jupiter passed away last night, I buried him next to Lucien today 😞 I'm really at a loss for what to do, I have just the two tanks and will just take down Jupiter's because I could never get it growing plants properly, the only thing it ever grew well was algae, but I'm really attached to Lucien's tank and after all this time it's finally growing well. After leaving it empty since the beginning of November when Lucien died I just recently changed the actual tank out because it had a leak near the top, swapped out the substrate, but put back in all the hardscape, plants and filter, and I was hoping that whatever the pathogen is it would've died out without a host and I could introduce a new fish, but now with Jupiter dying of the same thing I have no idea what to do. I'm afraid now that there could be contamination back from Jupiter's tank into Lucien's despite my best efforts to keep them quarantined from each other. I really really don't want to have to nuke the tank because of all the work I've put into it over the past year and a half, plus the cost of having to throw out everything and replace it is a big obstacle for me. I wish I just knew exactly what this pathogen is so I could be certain of how to treat it, but it seems like once the really obvious symptoms show up it moves too quickly for meds to help. I'm sure that how I treated Jupiter initially helped or else he wouldn't have improved over that time right?? But I don't know if the one round of kannaplex followed by the two weeks of metroplex wasn't enough, or if he just got reinfected once he was back in his tank. If it's so contagious in the tank how could I treat the fish in a QT and then reintroduce it to its tank without it getting reinfected anyway, that's something I've never understood, but everyone says to treat in a QT and then return them to the same tank?? I also have a 16 gallon tank that I want to get going, I have everything gathered to hook it up with co2 and everything, but I'm afraid to even start up that one because it could get contaminated too. If you have any advice/wisdom/experience to share about any of this I'd really appreciate it, because I'm really upset and at a loss for what to do. I still feel very new and inexperienced in this hobby and the last thing I want to do is get another fish and then have it die of the same thing, I would feel so guilty. I really wish this hadn't happened with my first fish and tank, it's so discouraging 😣 If anyone else reads this and can weigh in too I'd also really appreciate it. I feel way out of my depth.

@Colu I can dose the metroplex in the water column but I'm afraid he's actively dying at this point, I think it's too late for anything to help him.

Jupiter is still alive this morning but his coloring is completely washed out and he's very bloated and he darts erratically up to the surface very frequently for air, much more than he normally would, like he can't actually breathe properly. Again all of this is just like what happened to Lucien. I'm not sure doing an epsom salt bath is worth the stress it'll cause him when I don't think it will be able to help him at this point. I have no idea what this is that suddenly comes on and progresses so quickly, he looked pristine even a few days ago, it makes me really worried about getting other fish because I feel like everything I have is tainted, and even with a whole slew of medications and interventions and watching him like a hawk it still didn't prevent this from happening, like I still didn't take action quickly enough 😞 I feel like a total failure that I can't even keep him alive and healthy for a year and I should've done better.

@Odd Duck Thanks for the response. Unfortunately I really don't think I can get him to eat at this point, and all the symptoms are identical to what happened to my fish Lucien in the 48ish hours before he died. Whatever it is it goes very quickly, literally a week ago he was swimming around happily and making bubble nests. These are the best photos I can get at the moment, he's in the corner of the tank thus the distortion of his face, but you can see his bloating in the first photo, it's a little exaggerated by the curve in the tank but not by that much. In the last photo you can see whatever it is that's on his side, is that his slime coat?? Jupiter is only my second betta so I'm really unfamiliar with these things, I'm trying my best but I feel like I keep failing him. I don't have a specimen container, if he's still hanging on in the morning I'll do an epsom soak but he's looking so bad I hate to have to net him and move him, he's hanging down at the bottom exclusively so I can't scoop him up in a cup like I normally would.

All right, not exactly happy to be returning to this thread, I was hoping I wouldn't need too, but Jupiter is having problems again. He did well in his tank for a couple of weeks making bubble nests and swimming actively, eating enthusiastically, and then over the last couple of days he started either hanging out all the time at the bottom or at the waterline and not moving much. His swimming was kind of erratic at times and he kept shaking his head. I checked his water parameters but ammonia/nitrite/nitrate were all 0ppm, still I was worried there's something going on with the water that I can't test for so I moved him back into the QT last night with aquarium salt since then I would for sure know the water is clean but I'm not sure what to do from here, thinking of maybe treating with another round of kannaplex... I have maracyn and maracyn 2 now as well. I was hoping he'd have perked up a bit more by this morning but he hasn't, and his swimming is kind of weird, like he's not using his fins as much to move around and he's just moving his body more, if that makes any sense. It reminds me of how Lucien was swimming before he died. I got him to eat this morning but he wasn't really excited about it, and he's also not as active and responsive when I go up to the tank. Otherwise I can't really see anything with his outward appearance that stands out as any different. He's not a very old fish, I got him in March of last year so I haven't even had him for a year yet. @xXInkedPhoenixX Would very much appreciate some input if anyone is still willing to weigh in! ETA: His stomach has been bloating over the the course of the day but he's had a bowel movement so he's not constipated, I wasn't sure what meds to use so I dosed kannaplex. It's really looking a lot like how Lucien died right now, I'm not sure if he'll be able to come back from it, once Lucien started really going downhill it happened very fast 😞 ETA2: He has some of the weird sort of fuzz on his side that Lucien got right before dying too, it's hard to see unless I'm looking at him straight on, but it wasn't even there earlier in the day. I still don't know what the fuzz is because when I look up pictures of fungus it doesn't look like any of it, and it only appears near the end of whatever this is... so whatever it is I can pretty much confirm it's what Lucien had. I have no idea why it didn't respond to meds, or if it did respond to meds the first time he just got reinfected after I put him back in his tank?? I upped the dose of aquarium salt but at this point I don't have high hopes.

Hello, I'm just checking in to say Jupiter returned to his tank yesterday after 2 weeks in the QT with aquarium salt and the metroplex mixed into his food and he's doing great! He even started making bubble nests while in the QT, and now that he's back home he's happy as ever, zipping around all over the place and never holding still. His eye still looks pretty much the same, but I think it's just always going to look like that, and it's clearly not hurting him so as long as he's happy I'm happy. Thanks so much again for all your help, I learned a lot through this and the support was amazing! I hope you had a good holiday season and have a happy new year! I've included a picture of Jupiter back in his tank, he's such a good lil fish 😊

Thanks @xXInkedPhoenixX! He's back to acting all mopey in the QT, even though I'm pretty sure that's all it is it still makes me a little nervous. He started his meds yesterday and ate the bloodworms no problem, though today he had a not great looking poop and idk what that's about because they were fine before. Tonight will be his 3rd epsom bath and he's been doing just fine with them so I'll do the full 7 days, I'm just not sure how long I should do the meds for? I would really like to get him back in his own tank since he's so miserable in the QT. If I need to do the meds for longer than a week I'm wondering if I could put him back in his tank after the first week and then continue giving him the meds while he's in his own tank.

Update on Jupiter! He seems to be doing well, he really perked back up while he was back in his tank, he was very active and zipping all over. At one point when I fed him he got so eager jumping out of the water for it that the splash he created actually hit my glasses 😆 As of yesterday evening I gave him the first epsom bath for ten minutes which he had no problems with and now he's back in the QT with aquarium salt. To my eye it seems like his one enlarged nostril is looking smaller and he's very active and alert. I think his eye looks the same, but now I know it'll take time to see any changes there, and I don't expect it to ever quite look the same. I got the frozen bloodworms yesterday and the good news is the meds are actually both going to arrive today, several days early! My question is @xXInkedPhoenixX how much of the bloodworms do I feed him in one meal and how many times a day? Is it just once a day with the bloodworms and then feed him his usual food, or is it supposed to be his every meal? ETA: Also is it okay for me to thaw a whole cube and keep the leftovers in the fridge until he finishes them?

@Odd Duck Great, I'll keep up the aquarium salt then, I've had it at 1 TBSP per 3 gallons. Tomorrow I'll completely change out the water from the QT to start off fresh and add back in the aquarium salt. I'll feel better knowing he's getting some kind of additional treatment too while I'm waiting for the meds to get here. I wonder if there's anything I can add to his tank to give him something to do so he doesn't get so despondent and feel exposed in the empty tank, I wish I had one of those little suction cup betta tunnels.