Incompatible plants?

[MWilk]

Some of you guys around here are absolute wizards when it comes to plants and tank parameters and I’d love some critique. 
 

I have been having an issue with this tank, it is unheated, limiting my fish options, and is primarily a mystery snail breeding tank and living room decoration. 
 

I don’t mind the light green algae growing on the rear glass, though I’m not sure the mystery snails actually ever touch it. The surface of the water is completely covered with red root floaters, minus two loops of airline tubing in the center front and rear to give the paradise fish room to breathe. I tossed in an assortment of plants when I set this tank up around 3-4 months ago, to see what would grow. 4 pots of Pearlweed was consumed overnight by the Flagfish trio. The hairgrass lasted long enough to be planted, but I believe it was snuffed out by the floaters stealing the light. 
 

my problem now is algae growth on the nessaea pedicellata and scarlet temple plants. They are growing very well, all things considered, but they look rough. From the couch everything looks great but up close, it looks like dirt everywhere. I’m afraid to gravel vac because of the baby mystery snails mixed in with the fine gravel. Should I separate some of these plants? I normally take handfuls of floaters to the LFS every week but the past 2 I have been unable. 
 

my water is extremely hard, with a low pH6-6.4, near zero KH. Dosing heavily to keep nitrates present and still barely detectable.

[Pepere]

On 9/1/2024 at 10:56 AM, MWilk said:

I normally take handfuls of floaters to the LFS every week but the past 2 I have been unable. 
 

my water is extremely hard, with a low pH6-6.4, near zero KH. Dosing heavily to keep nitrates present and still barely detectable.

The floating plants are likely removing the nitrates very aggressively.  As the leaves are out of the water they have no shortage of co2.. And dense cover of them definitely reduces light to the other plants..

If you cant make it to the local fish store, the trash can is always open.  It just doesnt give you credit for anything you might want like an LFS might…

[MWilk]

On 9/1/2024 at 11:03 AM, Pepere said:

The floating plants are likely removing the nitrates very aggressively.  As the leaves are out of the water they have no shortage of co2.. And dense cover of them definitely reduces light to the other plants..

If you cant make it to the local fish store, the trash can is always open.  It just doesnt give you credit for anything you might want like an LFS might…

Yea, the LFS doesn’t either lol, I just hate to see anything go to waste. 
 

I spread them to my other tanks as well, but the filters and fish in the other tanks beat them up well enough that they don’t spread. You think the low nitrates is causing more algae buildup? 
 

don’t mind that chain sword in the foreground by the way. It showed up in that condition, I’m not expecting it to live. 

[Pepere]

On 9/1/2024 at 12:16 PM, MWilk said:

You think the low nitrates is causing more algae buildup? 

In my non co2 injected tanks I like to see nitrates between 5-10 ppm.  Given your low bioload you might consider eliminating the floating plants or confining them to a small portion and ruthlessly thinning weekly.

As to reducing algae, I find healthy thriving plants defend themselves well against algae, and struggling plants tend to get covered with it on the older leaves.  Low nitrates and light blocking is not great for plant growth.

 

 

”Plants that are growing robustly produce an array of anti-microbial chemicals; various  alkaloids, terpenes, phenolics, as a defence against pathogens and microbes. Plants will prioritize defending the valuable new leaves first, as these newest leaves are optimized and adapted to the current environment and contribute the most. Leaves have limited plasticity, so older leaves have limited ability to be adapted to new environments. Parallel to this, the plant may draw reserve energy and nutrients from older leaves to fund the growth of new leaves. The bigger the change in environment, the more we see this in play. As the plant abandon defending the older leaves, metabolites leak from the leaf margins and attract algae to spawn.

 

While the exact mechanism of plant defences and algae triggers can be complicated, the useful observation is this: Old or unhealthy leaves attract algae, while robustly grown, fresh new leaves are algae resistant. While hobbyists have been obsessed with correlating particular nutrients or parameters with algae growth, the far more common trigger for algae in most tanks is unhealthy/old leaves which plants have given up defending. Plants sacrifice old growth when they are under adaptation stress or not getting their needs fulfilled.””

 

The above quote from the 2 hr Aquarist website  says it well…

 

https://www.2hraquarist.com/blogs/algae-control
 

wealth of tips to reduce algae in above link.

[MWilk]

I have been hesitant to clear the floaters for fear of excessive light causing more algae buildup, but I might be exactly backwards in this thinking. I’ll give it a shot, and keep the floaters on the moss side only for a while. I can tell you the scarlet temple will grow up and out of the water about every 2 weeks and has to be trimmed back, the leaves that grow out of the water are a vibrant purple and pink underneath. Very pretty. When I replant them, they stay pink underneath but green algae builds up on top. 

[Pepere]

On 9/1/2024 at 12:29 PM, MWilk said:

I can tell you the scarlet temple will grow up and out of the water about every 2 weeks and has to be trimmed back, the leaves that grow out of the water are a vibrant purple and pink underneath. Very pretty. When I replant them, they stay pink underneath but green algae builds up on top. 

Scarlet temple was perhaps the plant most responsible for my increasing skill on plant horticulture.  It was also the most frustrating…. It would thrive and then collapse…I finally gave up on it…. But I spent over a year and a half trying….

[CoryWithAKatana]

Hey! If you want some algae eaters may I recommend Ottos. I have 2 ottos in my tank and within the first week of them in there they decimated a wall that had algae on it. They are great for keeping algae off your hardscape since they have a sucker and just nibble away. They are extremely Passive and I keep them with my dwarf chilid pair. 

For your plant problem.. the floaters do take out most of the light. You could get a bigger opening( more tubing to extend the loops)  to let more light in for the bottom plants. Algae grows with nutrient imbalances or excess light. Im unsure what is causing your algae since the floaters take most of the light, your plants could be dying because the algae is taking all the nutrients. 

[MWilk]

On 9/1/2024 at 1:25 PM, CoryWithAKatana said:

Hey! If you want some algae eaters may I recommend Ottos. I have 2 ottos in my tank and within the first week of them in there they decimated a wall that had algae on it. They are great for keeping algae off your hardscape since they have a sucker and just nibble away. They are extremely Passive and I keep them with my dwarf chilid pair. 

For your plant problem.. the floaters do take out most of the light. You could get a bigger opening( more tubing to extend the loops)  to let more light in for the bottom plants. Algae grows with nutrient imbalances or excess light. Im unsure what is causing your algae since the floaters take most of the light, your plants could be dying because the algae is taking all the nutrients. 

This tank stays at 69-70 degrees and really isn’t optimized for Otocinclus, unfortunately. I tried Amano shrimps and they were either all picked off by the paradise fish or disappeared into the shrimp dimension. 
 

I have killed plenty of scarlet temple in the past. In this tank, I haven’t lost a single stem but it’s all covered in algae. 

[MWilk]

On 9/1/2024 at 1:15 PM, Pepere said:

Scarlet temple was perhaps the plant most responsible for my increasing skill on plant horticulture.  It was also the most frustrating…. It would thrive and then collapse…I finally gave up on it…. But I spent over a year and a half trying….

I’ve found a few plants to be that way. I’m not sure what nutrient AR is really looking for yet, I’ve been just going broad spectrum in this tank and it’s doing what you see here.