Apathetic betta

[VanDogh]

Ever since I got my betta, 2-3 weeks ago maybe, he's been appearing really apathetic. It's almost as if he struggles just to swim, so he mainly just floats by the surface without even moving his pectorial fins. He eats whenever food conveniently gets put in front of his face, but won't bothering searching food or chasing food. All the bettas I've seen in stores have been superactive and swimming around...

I got him from a person when buying shrimp so I did not buy him from a store.

What is wrong with him?he mainly just floats like this all day long nitrate and nitrite is good and he lives in a 14 gallon so it's not too small for him to swim around either. I had to remove some Amazon frogbit because he kept getting stuck 

 

Edited August 1 by VanDogh

[Scaperoot]

Any idea how old he is? 

[VanDogh]

On 8/1/2024 at 8:48 PM, Scaperoot said:

Any idea how old he is? 

The previous owner said they got him in January of this year and I am not sure how old bettas are when they get sold 🤔

[Scaperoot]

What's the temp in the tank? 

[VanDogh]

26 celcius which Google says is 78.8 Fahrenheit 

[johnnyxxl]

Might be getting old. They only live about 2 years I think 

[mynameisnobody]

Age and fin type. The longer and larger the fin, the harder to swim with as they age. 

[VanDogh]

Oh that's sad if he is getting old, especially since I have not even had him for that long. Someone suggested... I don't know the English term for it, but exposing him to a mirror for 10 minutes each day to release testosterone so he could "build muscles" or something of that nature. Is that a good idea?

[Stef]

He’s got big beautiful fins. Like swimming in a wedding dress. Does your 14 gal have a low flow filter set up?  Fighting a current is exhausting. 
 

I personally don’t like the mirrors. Why stress him if he’s tired. A young active fish for a minute or two is ok. 

[mynameisnobody]

It couldn’t hurt. You can buy one that’s connected to a floating ball. Then you could use it on all your future bettas.

[VanDogh]

On 8/1/2024 at 11:37 PM, Stef said:

He’s got big beautiful fins. Like swimming in a wedding dress. Does your 14 gal have a low flow filter set up?  Fighting a current is exhausting. 

Yes he is really pretty! His coloring is even better irl 🙂

The current from the pump is almost non-existent, all floating plants remain still and I keep it low. If I did have some current in my tank he would not be able to float like he is doing right now without being moved by the current and he mostly just stay in the same spot. Every once in a blue moon he moves to a new spot just to stay put and float again.

On 8/1/2024 at 11:37 PM, Stef said:

I personally don’t like the mirrors. Why stress him if he’s tired. A young active fish for a minute or two is ok. 

On 8/1/2024 at 11:38 PM, mynameisnobody said:

It couldn’t hurt. You can buy one that’s connected to a floating ball. Then you could use it on all your future bettas.

Now I feel a little conflicted 🤔

[mynameisnobody]

Look up betta mirrors and make a call, don’t overthink it. 

[VanDogh]

Alright should it be inside the tank? Cus I have a tiny mirror 

Edited August 2 by VanDogh

[AtomicSunfish]

On 8/1/2024 at 4:22 PM, VanDogh said:

Oh that's sad if he is getting old, especially since I have not even had him for that long. Someone suggested... I don't know the English term for it, but exposing him to a mirror for 10 minutes each day to release testosterone so he could "build muscles" or something of that nature. Is that a good idea?

Showing a male betta a mirror for a few minutes a day is a great idea. It basically simulates life in a pond, where every now and then you have to defend your territory against another male. It’s good for them, it’s not stressful, and you can’t get physically injured like in a real fight. As long as it’s not constant, “fighting” a reflection is a natural and healthy behavior.

As for activity, yes, the longer the fins, the harder it is to move. Male bettas naturally have only slightly longer fins than females, so these varieties with very long fins can suffer for that.

For stimulation, have you considered adding other creatures to the tank? You could add snails, or certain other community fish that are compatible with bettas, like small tetras or Cory cats (guppies may or may not work, depending on your betta). Don’t introduce gouramis, since they are closely related to bettas and will be the target of territorial aggression. Also, don’t introduce fish from the minnow family (barbs, danios), because they are naturally fin-nippers, and those long fins would be an easy target. I wouldn’t add African dwarf frogs either, because in my experience, bettas can kill them, although some have had success with that combination. But otherwise, having compatible species can be a good way to perk up any aquarium fish.

Edited August 2 by AtomicSunfish

[dangerflower]

I think the mirror is a great idea to give him some mental stimulation. I wouldn't leave it in the tank as seeing the reflection constantly can stress them, but you can give him a minute or two of mirror time daily.

There are lots of products you can buy that will provide resting spots near the surface. There are little plastic flat leaves that suction cup to the side of the tank, and plastic hollow betta tubes - you can find them on etsy easily.

What are you feeding him? Feeding a variety of foods can be more interesting for them and helps maintain nutritional balance. Trying a live or frozen food might entice him.

[AtomicSunfish]

On 8/2/2024 at 10:27 AM, dangerflower said:

What are you feeding him? Feeding a variety of foods can be more interesting for them and helps maintain nutritional balance. Trying a live or frozen food might entice him.

Great point; I forgot to mention diet! Yes, bettas will accept pellets, although flakes can lead to bloat. But for real good betta food, try a little brine shrimp, tubifex worms, or blood worms. Too much of a good thing can lead to bloat, too, but some of those nice, high-protein foods are really good for small predators like bettas.

[VanDogh]

On 8/2/2024 at 1:55 PM, AtomicSunfish said:

It’s good for them, it’s not stressful, and you can’t get physically injured like in a real fight. As long as it’s not constant, “fighting” a reflection is a natural and healthy behavior.

This was my concern that it might be stressful in a negative way but if it is positive stress then it's all good 👍 

On 8/2/2024 at 1:55 PM, AtomicSunfish said:

As for activity, yes, the longer the fins, the harder it is to move. Male bettas naturally have only slightly longer fins than females, so these varieties with very long fins can suffer for that.

That is quite sad. I got him as a part of a package when I mainly was interested in buying vampire shrimp so I wasn't really looking specifically for a long finned betta. I still find his inactivity to be abnormal as I have seen males with finns of similar length in pet stores being a hundred times more active then what he is. 

On 8/2/2024 at 1:55 PM, AtomicSunfish said:

For stimulation, have you considered adding other creatures to the tank? You could add snails, or certain other community fish that are compatible with bettas, like small tetras or Cory cats (guppies may or may not work, depending on your betta.)

He actually lives with 3 corydoras, one bristlenose pleco and a bunch of (5 maybe?) Amano shrimp. Doesn't care about them. It's like he doesn't even notice them. He is too busy floating by the surface haha

I would let him live with my very active and curious guppies only if I knew that it was 100% safe but it's not a risk I am willing to take because I really adore them

On 8/2/2024 at 5:27 PM, dangerflower said:

I think the mirror is a great idea to give him some mental stimulation. I wouldn't leave it in the tank as seeing the reflection constantly can stress them, but you can give him a minute or two of mirror time daily.

I'm wondering... should I put the mirror inside the tank for x minutes, like holding it in the water, or should I show him the mirror through the glass?

On 8/2/2024 at 5:27 PM, dangerflower said:

There are lots of products you can buy that will provide resting spots near the surface. There are little plastic flat leaves that suction cup to the side of the tank, and plastic hollow betta tubes - you can find them on etsy easily.

I have a lot of plants with long leaves but he tends to get stuck on them and also rests on them occasionally. Isn't more going to make it even harder for him because he gets stuck so easily?

On 8/2/2024 at 5:27 PM, dangerflower said:

What are you feeding him? Feeding a variety of foods can be more interesting for them and helps maintain nutritional balance. Trying a live or frozen food might entice him.

On 8/2/2024 at 5:34 PM, AtomicSunfish said:

Great point; I forgot to mention diet! Yes, bettas will accept pellets, although flakes can lead to bloat. But for real good betta food, try a little brine shrimp, tubifex worms, or blood worms. Too much of a good thing can lead to bloat, too, but some of those nice, high-protein foods are really good for small predators like bettas.

I have tried feeding him freeze dried blood worm as well as frozen blood worm but he simply won't eat it if it isn't conveniently sized (small.) He just kind of gives up if it's too big. So I give him color flakes that's crushed up. Maybe I should give him brine shrimp (ocean food) only problem is they sink too fast and he does not bother with sinking food unless it is in front of his face and slow enough for him to catch it

 

Edited August 2 by VanDogh

[AtomicSunfish]

On 8/2/2024 at 1:18 PM, VanDogh said:

I would let him live with my very active and curious guppies only if I knew that it was 100% safe but it's not a risk I am willing to take because I really adore them

I'm wondering... should I put the mirror inside the tank for x minutes, like holding it in the water, or should I show him the mirror through the glass?

I have tried feeding him freeze dried blood worm as well as frozen blood worm but he simply won't eat it if it isn't conveniently sized (small.) He just kind of gives up if it's too big. So I give him color flakes that's crushed up. Maybe I should give him brine shrimp (ocean food) only problem is they sink too fast and he does not bother with sinking food unless it is in front of his face and slow enough for him to catch it

 

Supposedly male guppies could become the target of male betta aggression, because with those long caudal fins they look a bit like a male betta themselves. I’ve never really had any trouble with that, though. Yes, the betta may flare his gills at them a bit (mine would do that with neon tetras, too), but it was pretty mild and normal, and he didn’t pursue them. Contrast that with how bettas treat their cousins, the gouramis, which is with a forceful attack to drive them out of their territory. It’s almost like attacking another betta, only instead of fighting back, the gourami dashes around the tank, trying to get away. As with most territorial aggression, it’s strongest between relatives. I think guppies are fine, although as usual, there’s less aggression in a more spacious tank.

Just press the mirror against the glass from outside the aquarium; no need to stick it in the water. Do this for just a couple minutes a day, and it will remain interesting and fresh. If you just leave it there all the time, the betta eventually tires of it and doesn’t flare up at it anymore. But in small doses, it tricks him into thinking he has vanquished a foe, and seems to perk up his mood. 😁

As for food, try a little frozen brine shrimp. It’s good stuff!

Edited August 4 by AtomicSunfish

[VanDogh]

On 8/4/2024 at 12:39 PM, AtomicSunfish said:

Supposedly male guppies could become the target of male betta aggression, because with those long caudal fins they look a bit like a male betta themselves. I’ve never really had any trouble with that, though. Yes, the betta may flare his gills at them a bit (mine would do that with neon tetras, too), but it was pretty mild and normal, and he didn’t pursue them. Contrast that with how bettas treat their cousins, the gouramis, which is with a forceful attack to drive them out of their territory. It’s almost like attacking another betta, only instead of fighting back, the gourami dashes around the tank, trying to get away. As with most territorial aggression, it’s strongest between relatives. I think guppies are fine, although as usual, there’s less aggression in a more spacious tank.

Just press the mirror against the glass from outside the aquarium; no need to stick it in the water. Do this for just a couple minutes a day, and it will remain interesting and fresh. If you just leave it there all the time, the betta eventually tires of it and doesn’t flare up at it anymore. But in small doses, it tricks him into thinking he has vanquished a foe, and seems to perk up his mood. 😁

As for food, try a little frozen brine shrimp. It’s good stuff!

Thanks! Maybe I will try it if I get a bigger tank but in a 14 gallons I am a bit skeptical with guppies and bettas sharing space.

I have been using the mirror now and I have never seen him as active as he is now! He now swims towards me when I enter the room and act curious, instead of floating apathetically. Though, he gets tired really easily and settles to continuing with the floating at the surface after a while. Maybe he can regain "normal" stamina in a couple of weeks 😃

Edited August 8 by VanDogh

[VanDogh]

I just discovered that one of the corys had totally ripped dorsal Finn and a small wound on its tail. Then I saw the betta having slightly torn fins (the ones underneath)

I think he will be kept in solitude now except from the shrimp and maybe the bristlenose pleco (as she rarely comes out of her hiding so she does not bother anyone)

[VanDogh]

They are in the new tank and this is the ripped finn for the cory

[VanDogh]

Unfortunately the Cory died so I don't think he will ever live with guppies or cories 😢

Are cories and bettas really compatible? I've seen that combo recommended in my places so I assumed it was safe

[AtomicSunfish]

On 8/10/2024 at 6:07 AM, VanDogh said:

Unfortunately the Cory died so I don't think he will ever live with guppies or cories 😢

Are cories and bettas really compatible? I've seen that combo recommended in my places so I assumed it was safe

Generally, yes. I’ve kept a betta with Julii Cory cats, no problem. As a rule, territorial aggression is strongest against the same and related species, as well as other territorial species. So, the perch-like anabantoids and cichlids are usually not very interested in tetras, minnows, loaches, and catfishes. That’s why they can usually be kept together, even if the perch-like fishes are aggressive with each other (an exception being the shark minnows, which are also territorial and aggressive). Killifishes and livebearers are technically perch-like, but they’re pretty different, and also usually ignored (of course, bigger fish may eat smaller fish, but that’s predation, not territorial aggression).

So, I was a bit surprised when you said the Cory cat and betta had torn fins. Are you sure they were fighting, or could it have been something else?

Edited August 11 by AtomicSunfish

[VanDogh]

On 8/11/2024 at 11:07 AM, AtomicSunfish said:

Generally, yes. I’ve kept a betta with Julii Cory cats, no problem. As a rule, territorial aggression is strongest against the same and related species, as well as other territorial species. So, the perch-like anabantoids and cichlids are usually not very interested in tetras, minnows, loaches, and catfishes. That’s why they can usually be kept together, even if the perch-like fishes are aggressive with each other (an exception being the shark minnows, which are also territorial and aggressive). Killifishes and livebearers are technically perch-like, but they’re pretty different, and also usually ignored (of course, bigger fish may eat smaller fish, but that’s predation, not territorial aggression).

So, I was a bit surprised when you said the Cory cat and betta had torn fins. Are you sure they were fighting, or could it have been something else?

I see! Have any of your bettafish been red? I've heard something about coloration and genetics having an impact of how aggressive/territorial they are.

I am pretty sure they must have been in a fight because there's only amanos and one bristlenose pleco that resides in that tank. Since the betta had torn fins as well some sort of altercation between the two of them must have happened

[AtomicSunfish]

On 8/12/2024 at 8:56 AM, VanDogh said:

I see! Have any of your bettafish been red? I've heard something about coloration and genetics having an impact of how aggressive/territorial they are.

I am pretty sure they must have been in a fight because there's only amanos and one bristlenose pleco that resides in that tank. Since the betta had torn fins as well some sort of altercation between the two of them must have happened

Yeah, you’d think they were in a fight then.

I’ve read about the genetics of color and aggression in bettas, but I forget the findings. Were red ones generally supposed to be more aggressive? I’ve usually kept iridescent blue ones (my favorite color), but I’ve had one or two red ones, but not in community tanks, so I can’t really compare.

In my experience, the trick with bettas is they are tough for a small fish, particularly with other gouramis. So, I’ve been able to keep them with almost anything their size or even larger, as long it’s not too aggressive (eg aggressive cichlids or minnows). The exception is they’ve killed my African dwarf frogs. But with tetras, livebearers, and catfish, they’ve been fine for me. However, in a smaller tank, fish can get more aggressive, so that may explain it.

Edited August 12 by AtomicSunfish