Why is my plants worsening so quickly?

[martinmin]

I have a small tank, about 4 gallons. This is a new tank, and the 1st photo is in its 2nd month, looking good.

But the 3rd month, the foreground plants is turning yellow, brown, and I guess it is going to be black.

No significant parameters changed. I didn't dose any fertilizer, and given this is a new tank, I don't believe it is due to lack of fertifizer.

Please help diagnosize and save my tank!

 

 

[Tony s]

You probably do need to dose fertilizer. A good balanced one. With the correct ratio of micronutrients in it. You may be fine on nitrates. But could easily run out of other nutrients your need. Especially things like phosphorus and potassium. 

[JoeQ]

Fish need fish food, plants need plant food.

[martinmin]

On 7/28/2024 at 1:09 AM, Tony s said:

You probably do need to dose fertilizer. A good balanced one. With the correct ratio of micronutrients in it. You may be fine on nitrates. But could easily run out of other nutrients your need. Especially things like phosphorus and potassium. 

But when I use AC test strip test it, the nitriates, KG, GH looks good. Do those reflect the right level of fertilizers in the tank? Or regardless of what parameters tests show, it always need additional dosing of fertilizers?

And for a new tank, when should I start to dose fertilizers?

 

[JoeQ]

The time to start fertilizing is when you add plants. For the most part nitrites, kh and gh are considered water parameters. With the exception being gh is made up of calcium and magnesium which plants need as part of their diet.

Edited July 28 by JoeQ

[martinmin]

On 7/28/2024 at 12:43 PM, JoeQ said:

The time to start fertilizing is when you add plants. For the most part nitraites, kh and gh are considered water parameters. With the exception being gh is made up of calcium and magnesium which plants need as part of their diet.

When liquid fertilizer is dosed, which parameters are going to be affected among the three?

[JoeQ]

On 7/28/2024 at 4:14 PM, martinmin said:

When liquid fertilizer is dosed, which parameters are going to be affected among the three?

None of the 3 you listed, it will change your nitrAtes which plants need in large quantities. Below are the nutrients plants need.

 

[martinmin]

On 7/28/2024 at 1:33 PM, JoeQ said:

None of the 3 you listed, it will change your nitrAtes which plants need in large quantities. Below are the nutrients plants need.

 

I just took a test of my tank using AC strip. 

Nitrate: 15-25

Gh: about 300

Kh: about 40

 

If I dose liquid fertilizer, will it affect nitrate only? But fertilizer also boosts calcium and potassium, so it will increase GH and KH. Right? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony s]

On 7/28/2024 at 3:25 PM, martinmin said:

Do those reflect the right level of fertilizers in the tank

Not really. The things plants need most are nitrogen (in your ammonia, nitrites, nitrates), phosphorus and potassium primarily. Then they need iron, calcium, manganese, magnesium. Even things like boron, selenium, sulfur are important for plant growth. A balanced fertilizer gives you the correct ratio for most of these ingredients. We test for more in a field crop. But you get the idea.

 

to fight algae and grow plants you need all that. And more plants to keep your nitrates lower than 20. Excess nitrates cause excess algae 

[martinmin]

On 7/28/2024 at 5:54 PM, Tony s said:

Not really. The things plants need most are nitrogen (in your ammonia, nitrites, nitrates), phosphorus and potassium primarily. Then they need iron, calcium, manganese, magnesium. Even things like boron, selenium, sulfur are important for plant growth. A balanced fertilizer gives you the correct ratio for most of these ingredients. We test for more in a field crop. But you get the idea.

 

to fight algae and grow plants you need all that. And more plants to keep your nitrates lower than 20. Excess nitrates cause excess algae 

Do you recommend the AC all in one fertilizer? I haven't used it. 

[Tony s]

It’s supposed to be top rated. There are several other brands. Seachem flourish and flourish trace are good. And there are expensive ones just for aquascapers. 
 

and you may need a good root tab as well. Coop root tabs work well. 

On 7/28/2024 at 8:05 PM, martinmin said:

If I dose liquid fertilizer, will it affect nitrate only? But fertilizer also boosts calcium and potassium, so it will increase GH and KH. Right? 

Most fertilizers are designed not to raise either. 

[martinmin]

On 7/28/2024 at 7:17 PM, Tony s said:

It’s supposed to be top rated. There are several other brands. Seachem flourish and flourish trace are good. And there are expensive ones just for aquascapers. 
 

and you may need a good root tab as well. Coop root tabs work well. 

Most fertilizers are designed not to raise either. 

I did another test with API kit. The leftmost is my tap water, and the rightmost is about 20ppm? The two in the middle are similar to 

to my tap water? It seems my tap water already contains nitrates 5-10ppm? I don't think it is 0 when compared 

to the colors on the kit. If it is already 5-10ppm, I don't need to dose fertilizer?

[Tony s]

For nitrogen, no. But yes for everything else. Nitrates only contain 1 element of the many elements that plants need to grow healthy. Phosphorus and potassium being the other most important elements.  If you look at a bag of soil fertilizer you’ll find 3 numbers. Often 10-10-10. That’s 10% by weight of nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium. Aquatic plants need the same thing. Nitrates are only the first number of that. Nitrates are your nitrogen source only. It doesn’t have any phosphorus or potassium in it. And that’s not counting all the rest of the trace elements plants need to grow.

The key is to balance the nitrogen with everything else your plants need. 
 

[Tony s]

This is the nutrient breakdown of seachem flourish. All of these are important for growth. Nitrates are just the nitrogen  

Amounts per 1 g of flourish 

Total Nitrogen (N)0.07%

Available Phosphate (P₂O₅)0.01%

Soluble Potash (K₂O)0.37%

Calcium (Ca)0.14%

Magnesium (Mg)0.11%

Sulfur (S)0.2773%

Boron (B)0.009%

Chlorine (Cl)1.15%

Cobalt (Co)0.0004%

Copper (Cu)0.0001%

Iron (Fe)0.32%

Manganese (Mn)0.0118%

Molybdenum (Mo)0.0009%

Sodium (Na)0.13%

Zinc (Zn)0.0007%

[martinmin]

On 7/28/2024 at 10:14 PM, Tony s said:

For nitrogen, no. But yes for everything else. Nitrates only contain 1 element of the many elements that plants need to grow healthy. Phosphorus and potassium being the other most important elements.  If you look at a bag of soil fertilizer you’ll find 3 numbers. Often 10-10-10. That’s 10% by weight of nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium. Aquatic plants need the same thing. Nitrates are only the first number of that. Nitrates are your nitrogen source only. It doesn’t have any phosphorus or potassium in it. And that’s not counting all the rest of the trace elements plants need to grow.

The key is to balance the nitrogen with everything else your plants need. 
 

"For nitrogen, no. But yes for everything else. "

Do you mean my tap water contains Phosphorus and potassium, but not nitrogen (nitrates)? 

[Tony s]

No, you did your test on the tap and it came back slightly positive for nitrates . That’s okay. That’s your nitrogen. We don’t have any way to measure phosphorus or potassium without specialized tests. Which you don’t have, and that’s okay. And we wouldn’t have any test for the rest. Also okay. But for really good growth you need everything in the bottle of seachem flourish as well.

here is the breakdown on coops easy green. It has less of the trace elements, but enough to work fine 

Guaranteed Analysis:
—  Water Soluble Nitrogen (N) 2.66%
—  Available Phosphate (P2O5) 0.46%
—  Soluble Potash (K2O) 9.21%
—  Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg) 0.7%
—  Boron (B) 0.015%
—  Water Soluble Iron (Fe) 0.13%
—  Water Soluble Manganese (Mn) 0.036%
—  Molybdenum (Mo) 0.00098%
—  Water Soluble Zinc (Zn) 0.0072%
NPK 2.66 - 0.46 - 9.21

[martinmin]

On 7/28/2024 at 10:34 PM, Tony s said:

No, you did your test on the tap and it came back slightly positive for nitrates . That’s okay. That’s your nitrogen. We don’t have any way to measure phosphorus or potassium without specialized tests. Which you don’t have, and that’s okay. And we wouldn’t have any test for the rest. Also okay. But for really good growth you need everything in the bottle of seachem flourish as well.

here is the breakdown on coops easy green. It has less of the trace elements, but enough to work fine 

Guaranteed Analysis:
—  Water Soluble Nitrogen (N) 2.66%
—  Available Phosphate (P2O5) 0.46%
—  Soluble Potash (K2O) 9.21%
—  Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg) 0.7%
—  Boron (B) 0.015%
—  Water Soluble Iron (Fe) 0.13%
—  Water Soluble Manganese (Mn) 0.036%
—  Molybdenum (Mo) 0.00098%
—  Water Soluble Zinc (Zn) 0.0072%
NPK 2.66 - 0.46 - 9.21

In the above list, why isn't there potassium? It's very important, right? 

[Tony s]

On 7/29/2024 at 1:37 AM, martinmin said:

In the above list, why isn't there potassium? It's very important, right?

Potash is the old name for potassium. Very common in use around here. It’s the K2O

Around here being where I’m at, not the forum. 

It’s at 9.21% by weight. Mostly because it doesn’t move in the soil and doesn’t runoff into the water supply. It can be rare in water systems. 

[martinmin]

On 7/28/2024 at 10:39 PM, Tony s said:

Potash is the old name for potassium. Very common in use around here. It’s the K2O

Around here being where I’m at, not the forum. 

It’s at 9.21% by weight. Mostly because it doesn’t move in the soil and doesn’t runoff into the water supply. It can be rare in water systems. 

Let's say if I dose easy weekly, do I need to change water weekly?

Imagine I want to do a water change monthly, what's your recommendation of dosing easy green? 

[Tony s]

On 7/29/2024 at 1:50 AM, martinmin said:

Let's say if I dose easy weekly, do I need to change water weekly

Depends on how fast the nitrates build up. More nitrates there are, the more algae will use them for growth. And more water changes are not a bad idea. It keeps the water fresh and brings in some elements that are not in easy green. But I understand completely. Sometimes there isn’t enough time to do what we need to anyway.

[martinmin]

On 7/28/2024 at 11:01 PM, Tony s said:

Depends on how fast the nitrates build up. More nitrates there are, the more algae will use them for growth. And more water changes are not a bad idea. It keeps the water fresh and brings in some elements that are not in easy green. But I understand completely. Sometimes there isn’t enough time to do what we need to anyway.

If I want to do monthly water change, should I dose fertilizer significantly less than instructed on the product?

[JoeQ]

On 7/28/2024 at 8:05 PM, martinmin said:

If I dose liquid fertilizer, will it affect nitrate only? But fertilizer also boosts calcium and potassium, so it will increase GH and KH. Right? 

Most all in ones do not include sizeable amounts of calcium/magnesium to affect GH. For that you would need a specific GH booster fertilizer.

KH is your carbonate hardness of your water, not to be confused with calcium. Carbonates are not included in liquid fertilizer(s). For this you would need to be dosing a KH booster or other carbonate source such as baking soda (NaHCO3)

As for potassium: IMO it is under dosed in aquariums. Aquatic plants love potassium and it is not available in public water systems or in sizable amount from other sources (example fish food/fish waste)

Edited July 29 by JoeQ

[Tony s]

On 7/29/2024 at 2:31 AM, martinmin said:

If I want to do monthly water change, should I dose fertilizer significantly less than instructed on the product?

Really not, if you want your plants to thrive you need the other elements. Otherwise you starve your plants. And then the nitrates allow the algae to grow rapidly. What you want is fast growing plants to remove as much nitrates as they can. To do that they need the other nutrients. It’s probably easier in the long run to do the extra water changes. Either that or you may spend more time fighting the algae. 

 

On 7/29/2024 at 6:09 AM, JoeQ said:

As for potassium: IMO it is under dosed in aquariums. Aquatic plants love potassium and it is not available in public water systems

This is very true. The reason being it’s one of the few positively charged nutrients. Most soils are negatively charged. Potash binds very tightly to soil. It’s considered immobile in soil. Therefore no runoff or leaching into the ground water. It’s much harder to get into aquatic systems that way. Where nitrogen has to be reapplied every year and becomes something of a pollutant. Phosphorus is somewhere in the middle. It moves, but not quickly. The problem it has, it doesn’t disappear from the environment as easily. And over accumulates.  And for a long time was included in products like laundry soap and went directly into the water supply.