Would the Walstad Method Be Possible With My Desired Aquarium?

[Tony s]

On 7/4/2024 at 6:22 PM, Shiba said:

They say that they were fin nippers and would nip the fins of a male

Haven’t done cherry bards yet. On my list. But they’re supposed to be among the most peaceful fish. You could always try a plakatt male or female. Much faster than regular bettas. Or a trio of honey gourami. Or another schooler. So many combinations to try 🤣

Actually did a refresher on cherry barbs. Not supposed to be that nippy. The bettas behavior is on a fish by fish basis 

[Shiba]

On 7/4/2024 at 5:29 PM, Tony s said:

Haven’t done cherry bards yet. On my list. But they’re supposed to be among the most peaceful fish. You could always try a plakatt male or female. Much faster than regular bettas. Or a trio of honey gourami. Or another schooler. So many combinations to try 🤣

Actually did a refresher on cherry barbs. Not supposed to be that nippy. The bettas behavior is on a fish by fish basis 

Huh. Well, maybe it'll work out after all.

Regarding fish, there are a multitude of fish that are out there, but I only have a small mom-and-pop fish store and a PetSmart in my closest "big" town which lowers my choices. I could go to a Petco, but those are a good 30-45 minutes at least which is less than ideal when you're traveling with fish. I will have to look around. Maybe they're all available. If I can't get Cherry Barbs, I may try some Black Skirts like I had originally thought. Maybe another tetra or something. I may not be able to find panda cories, but I should be able to find some type.

Edited July 4 by Shiba

[Tony s]

On 7/4/2024 at 6:37 PM, Shiba said:

I may try some Black Skirts like I had originally thought

My experience with skirt tetras is they are nippy. When I was first putting bettas in communities, I almost lost one to them. Found him hiding under some decoration very shredded. 
 

and local fish store is all relative. I have to drive an hour for a small store and a big box store. But I also drive 2 hours to Indy or 3 hours to Chicago. I count Indy as local. Haven’t explored Chicago enough yet for fish. Heard of a couple of good places though. I wouldn’t worry about the time in a bag. Fish get transported much longer than that every day. 4-6 hours in a bag is not a problem. The only problem I’ve ever had is I transported some skunk cories and had a stop in between. Apparently one or more released their venom in the bag. When I put them in the tank, they were fine. But I did a little maintenance then. My arm broke out in hives where it was in the water 

[Shiba]

On 7/4/2024 at 6:08 PM, Tony s said:

But I did a little maintenance then. My arm broke out in hives where it was in the water 

Oh no. That's awful. I'll make sure that doesn't happen to me lol.

On 7/4/2024 at 6:08 PM, Tony s said:

Fish get transported much longer than that every day

You are not wrong about that. I think I may go to a Petco for bettas. They seem to have a decent variety. My PetSmart has some but just doesn't seem as many.

[Tony s]

On 7/4/2024 at 7:12 PM, Shiba said:

think I may go to a Petco for bettas. They seem to have a decent variety. My PetSmart has some but just doesn't seem as many.

I usually get mine from either. But just be aware they usually don’t last as long from there. It’s a rough life for them. And genetically they’ve gotten off a bit. They develop weird tumors and seem more susceptible to disease. They usually only last 6 months to… I think my oldest is 2.5 years old now. I figure I have some space, and I can get them out of the cups

[Pepere]

On 7/4/2024 at 6:29 PM, Tony s said:

  On 7/4/2024 at 6:22 PM, Shiba said:

They say that they were fin nippers and would nip the fins of a male

I have 8 Cherry Barbs in a tank with 2 AngelFish…. 
I have not seen any hint of them going after the Angelfish fins or any other fish…

On 7/4/2024 at 6:37 PM, Shiba said:

I could go to a Petco, but those are a good 30-45 minutes at least which is less than ideal when you're traveling with fish.

Given that fish travel across country in bags, I dont perceive a downside to traveling 30-45 minutes with fish other than the time inconvenience to do so,..

 

And purchasing fish to be shipped to you is always an option as well.

[Shiba]

On 7/4/2024 at 6:20 PM, Tony s said:

I usually get mine from either. But just be aware they usually don’t last as long from there. It’s a rough life for them. And genetically they’ve gotten off a bit. They develop weird tumors and seem more susceptible to disease. They usually only last 6 months to… I think my oldest is 2.5 years old now. I figure I have some space, and I can get them out of the cups

Well my mom-and-pop store doesn't have a lot of options with bettas. I think they get some and then some new ones. Last time I saw they had some white/light purple/pink dumbos which were GORGEOUS but I don't know if they would work with the tank setup, but maybe who knows.

On 7/4/2024 at 6:25 PM, Pepere said:

I have 8 Cherry Barbs in a tank with 2 AngelFish…. 
I have not seen any hint of them going after the Angelfish fins or any other fish…

Given that fish travel across country in bags, I dont perceive a downside to traveling 30-45 minutes with fish other than the time inconvenience to do so,..

 

And purchasing fish to be shipped to you is always an option as well.

Okay that seems great

Yeah I could purchase fish to be shipped I never thought about that. I just always thought you'd have to buy a lot and shipping would be expensive.

[Tony s]

On 7/4/2024 at 7:25 PM, Pepere said:

And purchasing fish to be shipped to you is always an option as well.

Yeah. I do that occasionally as well. It’s the only way I could keep guppies alive. Some really good online shops. And incredible selections. Just way expensive to overnight fish 

 

On 7/4/2024 at 7:25 PM, Pepere said:

I dont perceive a downside to traveling 30-45 minutes with fish other than the time inconvenience to do so,..

I have my daughter conditioned for that as well. She gets to go to gymnastics meets. I get to go to fish stores. Which is cool. We’ve been to some neat little shops. 

On 7/4/2024 at 7:37 PM, Shiba said:

shipping would be expensive.

Shipping is expensive. But lots of different fish 

[Tony s]

On 7/4/2024 at 7:37 PM, Shiba said:

Well my mom-and-pop store doesn't have a lot of options with bettas

You could try shipping in a higher quality of betta. Prism bettas has some very nice looking ones 

Jason Adams. Prime time aquatics was talking about them a couple of weeks ago 

[Pepere]

 

On 7/4/2024 at 7:37 PM, Shiba said:

Yeah I could purchase fish to be shipped I never thought about that. I just always thought you'd have to buy a lot and shipping would be expensive.

I am ever so appreciative that Aquarium Coop introduced me to Aquahuna.com 

 

$12.99 flat rate shipping usps Priority.  Orders have always arrived within 48 hours for me from Washington State to Maine.  Aqua Huna specifies the group size of fish. Ie groups of 6 for some species, 8 for others, 10 for some.  Ie you can not order a specific number..  I have been most pleased with price, quality, and service…

 

As to shipping cost, consider gas, wear and tear on vehicle and time you might spend traveling to a store…. I know I am much happier spending $13.00 on shipping compared to driving 45 minutes out and back…

[Shiba]

On 7/4/2024 at 6:49 PM, Pepere said:

 

I am ever so appreciative that Aquarium Coop introduced me to Aquahuna.com 

 

$12.99 flat rate shipping usps Priority.  Orders have always arrived within 48 hours for me from Washington State to Maine.  Aqua Huna specifies the group size of fish. Ie groups of 6 for some species, 8 for others, 10 for some.  Ie you can not order a specific number..  I have been most pleased with price, quality, and service…

 

As to shipping cost, consider gas, wear and tear on vehicle and time you might spend traveling to a store…. I know I am much happier spending $13.00 on shipping compared to driving 45 minutes out and back…

Oh that is cool! I'll have to look into them a little more.

On 7/4/2024 at 6:43 PM, Tony s said:

You could try shipping in a higher quality of betta. Prism bettas has some very nice looking ones 

Jason Adams. Prime time aquatics was talking about them a couple of weeks ago 

The bettas at Prism Bettas look cool, but it looks really fancy, lol. I just want a nice looking one that will last. I'll have to look into though.

My local mom-and-pop pet store did at one time say that they would order ghost shrimp for me when I was wondering about them, so perhaps they could for others. I think I would just have to buy bulk though, which I can't do.

This is if they don't have them. They may.

Edited July 5 by Shiba

[Shiba]

I am watching some of Corey's videos on plants. I'm getting a lot of good ideas for plants. I probably will buy some plants on the website because my local pet stores don't have a lot of choices

[Shiba]

My question right now is how do you balance your pH with driftwood and aqua soil in your aquarium (sorry if I'm asking a lot of questions I'm just beginning to really get serious and I don't want my new setup to end up like the one before that I had)? I am thinking of having an aqua soil that doesn't lower the pH (apparently it exists), but I still will have some decent amount of driftwood and I'm wondering exactly what's the best way to go about it. If you have done it before or at least know of how other people do it I would love to know. Thanks.

[Tony s]

On 7/4/2024 at 9:18 PM, Shiba said:

I am thinking of having an aqua soil that doesn't lower the pH (apparently it exists),

Oh. Yeah, never used aqua soil. So can’t help there. Have a bag of it. Been sitting for 2 years now. 
 

for wood, I usually don’t worry about the ph from it. Ph usually doesn’t do much. As long as it’s a consistent level 

[Rube_Goldfish]

On 7/4/2024 at 9:18 PM, Shiba said:

My question right now is how do you balance your pH with driftwood and aqua soil in your aquarium (sorry if I'm asking a lot of questions I'm just beginning to really get serious and I don't want my new setup to end up like the one before that I had)?

Firstly, ask away! Not to speak for the community or anything, but folks here a) love seeing new people join and succeed in thr hobby; b) love seeing fish thrive; and c) love to talk about fish and aquariums. Plus we were all beginners ourselves at one point.

Secondly, I don't know what your KH is, but if you have a moderate to high KH and keep up with your water changes, the chances of the wood really moving the pH are fairly low. Aquasoil can be different, in part because it might directly absorb KH.

But I broadly agree with @Tony s; I wouldn't worry about the wood.

[daggaz]

Hey, cool thread.  Thought I would toss my hat into the "organic soil tank" ring (as Streetwise puts it).  

I did a bunch of different things:  Father fish style heavily fertilized soil with a 2-3 inch sand cap.  Big load of rotting wood for a "hybrid" style walstad CO2 production layer.  And a plastic tray for an isolated under-gravel filter as the only filtration system.  My tank is a bit over 50 gallons (180L) and current residents are:

about 20 chili rasbora (hard to find and count)

20 CPDs

11 norman's lampeye fish

6 kuhli loaches

5 glass catfish

3 siamese algae eaters

2 hillstream loaches

1 albino bristlenose

1 giant vampire shrimp

2 amano shrimp

about 10 cherry shrimp (also hard to find and count) which are now breeding!

and probably two nerite snails but I havent seen them in a looong time.   Oh and I've got probably a dozen species of plants, I lose track.   Is that lightly stocked?  I don't know, I am definitely going to add a bunch more chili's and will top it off with some kind of flashy central fish at the end, maybe a honey gourami or two.  

So, its my first tank.  I've got an educational background in various stem fields that helps support what I am doing, but for the most part I just read a lot online, watched youtube, and picked out what I felt made the most sense and went for it, hence the mish-mash of various techniques.  I think Streetwise hits the nail on the head when he says the biggest concern is how you can move it if you ever need to.  I built a custom stand (hey im a carpenter, too!) and the top is an easily removable 7/8" heavy plywood flat that can support the weight, though I would empty the tank of water first of course.  I don't really think these tanks are "hard to balance" however, the entire point is that the living ecosystem you create ends up creating its own balance (which itself is a hell of a misnomer - balanced ecosystems are extremely dynamic and a non-stop murder-spree).  As far as pH goes, your fish are more tolerant than you probably believe and most systems are going to come out somewhere close to neutral in the first place.  This tank for example, has a load of gardening lime in it as well as a bunch of peat and leaves, and my tapwater is super hard, and the pH is only about 7.5 and neither that pH nor the KH seem to bother the fish much at all.  The point is, most of the substrate ingredients themselves, have a pH that is somewhere close to neutral.  If you aren't adding loads of volcanic salts to your soil, you are probably going to be just fine.

I just want to say, other than not buying better lights on a timer, not using some initial liquid ferts to help plants get started, and not buying enough plants IMMEDIATELY, the tank went off without much of a hitch.  Had one early crash, solved with a big water change and fixing the forementioned mistakes.  My tank is now totally thriving, you can check out my journal if you are curious.  I'll add some more pictures too (this is an older one), but recently I did some infusoria infusions to up the biodiversity of microflora, and I've been away from home so I've only been feeding every two to three days.  Last time I checked in, every single bit of algae, including the old dead stuff clinging to the bottom plants, was gone.  The water is super clear, but has some tannins so is sporting a nice blackwater look.   With my UGF and powerhead, I have the option to put some charcoal in the uptake tube to lighten the water color, but I quite like it like this so... (my crappy phone camera really doesn't do the tank any justice).

I am definitely happy with the tank, and my family LOVES it.  Best purchase in a long time.  

[Shiba]

On 7/4/2024 at 9:17 PM, Rube_Goldfish said:

Firstly, ask away!

Thank you!

On 7/4/2024 at 9:17 PM, Rube_Goldfish said:

Secondly, I don't know what your KH is, but if you have a moderate to high KH and keep up with your water changes, the chances of the wood really moving the pH are fairly low.

I actually don't have any water in the tank. My tank is currently empty (but won't be for too long lol)

On 7/4/2024 at 9:17 PM, Rube_Goldfish said:

Aquasoil can be different, in part because it might directly absorb KH.

Interesting. I'm thinking some fertilizers (like Easy Green) will at least slightly raise KH? I never heard that it would absorb it. Have you noticed that? How long does it usually last? Months, years, decades?
 

On 7/5/2024 at 2:31 AM, daggaz said:

I don't really think these tanks are "hard to balance" however, the entire point is that the living ecosystem you create ends up creating its own balance

Huh. Well, I'm not sure if I will do FF or Walstad for the 20 gallon but I might for one of my 10 gallons. Thanks for the advice! Nice aquarium! I actually briefly skimmed through your journal. Seems pretty cool.

 

[Tony s]

On 7/5/2024 at 9:56 AM, Shiba said:

I'm thinking some fertilizers (like Easy Green) will at least slightly raise KH?

Really the easiest way to raise kh is by water changes. Unless you happen to be in a place that doesn’t have any in their water. You ca also supplement it with some additives as well. 

Fertilizer won’t work. Kh is the carbonates already dissolved in your water 

[Rube_Goldfish]

On 7/5/2024 at 9:56 AM, Shiba said:

On 7/4/2024 at 10:17 PM, Rube_Goldfish said:

Aquasoil can be different, in part because it might directly absorb KH.

Interesting. I'm thinking some fertilizers (like Easy Green) will at least slightly raise KH? I never heard that it would absorb it. Have you noticed that? How long does it usually last? Months, years, decades?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Liquid fertilizers shouldn't have any effect on your carbonate hardness (KH). As @Tony s says, you almost definitely have at least some in your tap water, and maybe a lot. If you've got a test kit or test strips, get a glass of tap water, let it sit out for 24 hours*, then test it for every parameter you can, and write it down. (Tap water can change seasonally, but it's a start.)

As for absorbing KH, some substrates, mostly so-called "active substrates" or "active aquasoils" absorb and hold on to things like carbonates and nutrients. This can be part of their appeal: they can pull things out of the water column and hold them where the plant roots can access them. And they can be used to buffer the water's pH down, if that's what you want. But it's something that has to be factored in, especially in the first fews days and weeks that a tank is running. After that, the substrate usually reaches its capacity to absorb and everything stabilizes.

As for how long it would take to reach that equilibrium point, I think that would depend on the type of substrate, the water volume of the tank, and the water parameters.

[Rube_Goldfish]

Just realized I forgot to make that asterisk go anywhere:

If you don't know, the reason for the 24 hour waiting period is because a lot of tap water has some amount of dissolved CO2 in it, either naturally or added by the water utility. In fresh water, dissolved CO2 takes the form of carbonic acid and lowers the pH, but in time, through the gas exchange at the water's surface, the CO2 will gas off into the atmosphere and the water's pH will settle into its "true" pH.

[Shiba]

Okay,

So this is what I am thinking of...

I am thinking of a more normal tank loosely taking inspiration from more sustainable aquariums, mostly just using a lot of plants.

I am going off an aquascape that MD Fish Tanks made (I included the video earlier in the thread) with a couple decently sized pieces of driftwood, about 4-5 large-medium sized rocks (with detail gravel and pebbles) and lots of plants.

I will use gravel (for the bottom), some aquasoil (possibly) and cap it all with sand. The Back will be higher than the front for that classic slope look (also gives me more planting room)

The list of plants that I am considering are as follows ...

• Bacopa Caroliniana (background plant)
• Java Moss (on driftwood)
• Java Fern (on driftwood)
• Anubias Petite (on driftwood)
• Dwarf Sagitarria (background) - I may not do this one
• Cryotocoryne Wendtii Red and/or Green (midground)
• Pogostemon Stallatus 'Octopus' (background)
• Anubius Nangi (on driftwood) - I may not do this one
• Monte Carlo (front)
• Water Sprite (background)
• Dwarf Water Lettuce (floating plant)

This list may grow/shrink.

I may get the stones from the creek next door to my home. I don't have a million dollars to spend on this and I want to get plenty of plants. I will see how it goes.

Edited July 5 by Shiba

[Rube_Goldfish]

On 7/5/2024 at 11:09 AM, Shiba said:

Okay,

So this is what I am thinking of...

I am thinking of a more normal tank loosely taking inspiration from more sustainable aquariums, mostly just using a lot of plants.

I am going off an aquascape that MD Fish Tanks made (I included the video earlier in the thread) with a couple decently sized pieces of driftwood, about 4-5 large-medium sized rocks (with detail gravel and pebbles) and lots of plants.

I will use gravel (for the bottom), some aquasoil (possibly) and cap it all with sand. The Back will be higher than the front for that classic slope look (also gives me more planting room)

The list of plants that I am considering are as follows ...

• Bacopa Caroliniana (background plant)
• Java Moss (on driftwood)
• Java Fern (on driftwood)
• Anubias Petite (on driftwood)
• Dwarf Sagitarria (background) - I may not do this one
• Cryotocoryne Wendtii Red and/or Green (midground)
• Pogostemon Stallatus 'Octopus' (background)
• Anubius Nangi (on driftwood) - I may not do this one
• Monte Carlo (front)
• Water Sprite (background)
• Dwarf Water Lettuce (floating plant)

This list may grow/shrink.

I may get the stones from the creek next door to my home. I don't have a million dollars to spend on this and I want to get plenty of plants. I will see how it goes.

I'm out of reactions for the day, but that plan sounds perfect! When hardscaping, don't forget to leave a little room for a heater, if you'll need one, and filter inlet/outlet, and a little room between the hardscape and glass so you can clean the glass* and trim/replant plants. Make sure to take pictures!

* Personally, I only clean my front glass. I leave the other three walls to grow whatever because my otos and snails like it that way.

[Shiba]

On 7/5/2024 at 10:18 AM, Rube_Goldfish said:

When hardscaping, don't forget to leave a little room for a heater, if you'll need one, and filter inlet/outlet, and a little room between the hardscape and glass so you can clean the glass*

Oh I will. I fortunately already have the heater, filter, and hood so I should be set. The heater is not too big (big enough for the 20g). It's not Aquarium Co-Op but it's similar so I can get the exact temperature which I still think is sensational lol. I'm used to those that are just 78.

On 7/5/2024 at 10:18 AM, Rube_Goldfish said:

Make sure to take pictures!

Oh I will lol.

On 7/5/2024 at 10:18 AM, Rube_Goldfish said:

* Personally, I only clean my front glass. I leave the other three walls to grow whatever because my otos and snails like it that way.

Fair enough. I will make sure there is at least some algae. I first planned to get snails/otos for the possible algae growth. I think now I'm planning to get algae for the otos and snails that I want lol. What is going on? I want algae...?

In the old tank I had black beard algae so I hope that doesn't occur again.

Edited July 5 by Shiba

[Rube_Goldfish]

On 7/5/2024 at 11:24 AM, Shiba said:

Oh I will. I fortunately already have the heater, filter, and hood so I should be set. The heater is not too big (big enough for the 20g). It's not Aquarium Co-Op but it's similar so I can get the exact temperature which I still think is sensational lol. I'm used to those that are just 78.

Oh I will lol.

Fair enough. I will make sure there is at least some algae. I first planned to get snails/otos for the possible algae growth. I think now I'm planning to get algae for the otos and snails that I want lol. What is going on? I want algae...?

In the old tank I had black beard algae so I hope that doesn't occur again.

Yeah, black beard algae is no joke. Some people use a black background because they like the way it can make everything else stand out but also if you get a little green dust or green spot algae it can hide it from view (though not from snails and otos!). My thought was mostly that if I can just grow stems tall enough, I won't see the back pane anyway. And I like the way green spot/green dust looks on hardscape, just so long as it leaves my plants alone!

[Shiba]

On 7/5/2024 at 10:46 AM, Rube_Goldfish said:

And I like the way green spot/green dust looks on hardscape, just so long as it leaves my plants alone!

Yeah some normal algae on wood and rocks is fine in controlled amounts.

Would sedimentary rocks be a problem in an aquarium? That appears to be mostly what I can get right now. I have some rocks from a pile in my backyard.

Edited July 5 by Shiba