Redo my dirt/soil substate

[Moz]

Hi All, I have a strong feeling my dirt/soil substate is keeping the ammonia levels high in my 10gal. I had it for a couple of months now, and I can't keep shrimp, and a fish or two will die after a water change. I would get an ammonia spike after each WC. I eventually lost my live stock. When I added the organic soil, I didn't remove the twigs or bark that's mixed in (noob mistake). I think it's taking longer to "break-down" and spiking the ammonia.

I have live plants, not a lot, but a fairly good amount that are growing. I ordered more. I would like to redo my substrate with fresh substrate by removing the twigs and large debris and adding a little sand and clay in the mix before a layer of sand, but I'm afraid of killing the plants I have by removing them from the old soil and replanting them to the new. Thinking of putting everything in a plastic tote, some substrate with the same water while I take on the project.

What would you do?

Let the current substrate "mature" a few weeks/months more?

Or a complete substrate overhaul, which will also require a cycle of a few weeks before adding live stock?

I'm concern of the old substrate that it has way too much debris to break down before it settles just right.😕

 

Thank you!!

[AllFishNoBrakes]

Have you tested your tap water for ammonia? Are you only seeing ammonia after a water change, or all the time?

[Moz]

On 3/30/2024 at 8:36 PM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

Have you tested your tap water for ammonia? Are you only seeing ammonia after a water change, or all the time?

Yes, test is good.

Ammonia all the time! 😕

Edited March 31 by Moz
Added an answer

[AllFishNoBrakes]

Word. While I can’t say for sure that the ammonia is coming from the dirt, I think it’s a good possibility. With enough patience, the bacteria colony should eventually grow to handle what’s coming from the substrate. Just takes time. 
 

If you’re set on redoing the dirt I would definitely recommend removing anything you can out of it. I used a fine mesh screen on mine to be left with just dirt. I would also recommend using only a 1/4” of dirt. I did that in my cube, and 2.5 years later that tank is going super strong. 

[Moz]

On 3/30/2024 at 9:48 PM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

Word. While I can’t say for sure that the ammonia is coming from the dirt, I think it’s a good possibility. With enough patience, the bacteria colony should eventually grow to handle what’s coming from the substrate. Just takes time. 
 

If you’re set on redoing the dirt I would definitely recommend removing anything you can out of it. I used a fine mesh screen on mine to be left with just dirt. I would also recommend using only a 1/4” of dirt. I did that in my cube, and 2.5 years later that tank is going super strong. 

Thanks AFNB!

I really appreciate the help!

[johnnyxxl]

Currently I am running sand and gravel from the garden section no ammonia spike just the smallest hint then gone.  But I planted the heck out of my tank as soon as it was aged.  I would be concerned you might have ammonia in the water bound with something or maybe tied to your additives possibly.   I think it was prime that caused ammonia spikes?

[Moose]

I redid the substrate system in my tank recently because I'd put aquasoil in filter bags and capped that with sand but I was having a very hard time planting in to it (also soil bags were too thick + sand cap was too shallow, wasn't banked appropriately toward the back, etc....noob mistakes). Process looked a little different because I reused my substrate but the plants I took out of the tank seem to (approx 3 weeks later) be doing well. Here's the basic rundown of what I did: 

• filled hospital tank with water from main tank
• filled 3 gal bucket with tank water, placed hardscape pieces that had plants attached in there. Also put some potted plants I was planning on adding to the tank in there. 
• gently pulled out plants with tweezers and placed them on a small baking sheet (half-sheet I think?) I had lined with wet paper towels. Once all the plants were removed, I covered them with another paper towel layer. 
• took a break (got sore lol) 
• siphoned out as much of the remaining tank water as I could and pulled out the bagged soil
• realized I did not have the skills to siphon the tank out entirely, so my partner helped me carry and gently pour it in to the bathtub. The wet sand stayed pretty well in the tank during this process (sticky) 
• Scooped sand out with a plastic container. Didn't get out all the remmnents because a little sand here in there in the bottom of the tank wasn't an issue for what I was doing, but you definitely could do a deep rinse at this point to get everything all the way out 
• Arranged hardscape 
• Mixed substrate (gravel, aquasoil, wet sand in my case) 
• added substrate, capped with sand 
• sprayed everything down generously with a misting bottle to keep hardscape plants sufficiently damp
• took another break 
• planted in remaining plants
• re-filled tank 
• water was pretty cloudy from all the substrate disturbance so I added some filter floss and it cleared up pretty quick 

All in all, took me pretty much the whole day from start to finish (I move slow); plants held up really well. Your mileage may vary depending on what plants you have, how dry your air is, etc, but I would highly recommend the wet paper towel plant sandwich for smaller/more delicate plants. It worked great and they didn't get as separated as I'm sure they would have if I'd just dropped them in a bucket of water. If what's holding you back is worrying that the plants won't make it, I say give it a shot bc mine turned out way more durable than I was worried they would. I haven't done a dirted tank though so I don't know anything about waiting for the tank to mature vs changing the substrate out. 

Editing because I forgot to add: when I took longer breaks I placed the tray with the wet paper towels and plants in a plastic bag to prevent anything from drying out. 

Edited March 31 by Moose
adding info

[Moz]

On 3/31/2024 at 3:22 AM, Moose said:

I redid the substrate system in my tank recently because I'd put aquasoil in filter bags and capped that with sand but I was having a very hard time planting in to it (also soil bags were too thick + sand cap was too shallow, wasn't banked appropriately toward the back, etc....noob mistakes). Process looked a little different because I reused my substrate but the plants I took out of the tank seem to (approx 3 weeks later) be doing well. Here's the basic rundown of what I did: 

• filled hospital tank with water from main tank
• filled 3 gal bucket with tank water, placed hardscape pieces that had plants attached in there. Also put some potted plants I was planning on adding to the tank in there. 
• gently pulled out plants with tweezers and placed them on a small baking sheet (half-sheet I think?) I had lined with wet paper towels. Once all the plants were removed, I covered them with another paper towel layer. 
• took a break (got sore lol) 
• siphoned out as much of the remaining tank water as I could and pulled out the bagged soil
• realized I did not have the skills to siphon the tank out entirely, so my partner helped me carry and gently pour it in to the bathtub. The wet sand stayed pretty well in the tank during this process (sticky) 
• Scooped sand out with a plastic container. Didn't get out all the remmnents because a little sand here in there in the bottom of the tank wasn't an issue for what I was doing, but you definitely could do a deep rinse at this point to get everything all the way out 
• Arranged hardscape 
• Mixed substrate (gravel, aquasoil, wet sand in my case) 
• added substrate, capped with sand 
• sprayed everything down generously with a misting bottle to keep hardscape plants sufficiently damp
• took another break 
• planted in remaining plants
• re-filled tank 
• water was pretty cloudy from all the substrate disturbance so I added some filter floss and it cleared up pretty quick 

All in all, took me pretty much the whole day from start to finish (I move slow); plants held up really well. Your mileage may vary depending on what plants you have, how dry your air is, etc, but I would highly recommend the wet paper towel plant sandwich for smaller/more delicate plants. It worked great and they didn't get as separated as I'm sure they would have if I'd just dropped them in a bucket of water. If what's holding you back is worrying that the plants won't make it, I say give it a shot bc mine turned out way more durable than I was worried they would. I haven't done a dirted tank though so I don't know anything about waiting for the tank to mature vs changing the substrate out. 

Editing because I forgot to add: when I took longer breaks I placed the tray with the wet paper towels and plants in a plastic bag to prevent anything from drying out. 

Thank you! I'm sure I can give it a go!