Rosi Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) Hello! I need some help with a problem I've had for about a month now. As the title suggests, I've had milky water that I can't seem to get rid of. Before we go any further, here are my 20g tank parameters : Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate ~5ppm, PH ~7.5, GH ~60ppm, KH ~80ppm. I live in Colorado, so the tap water tends to be fairly hard. The tank is fully planted and has been up and running for 3 months. I have a betta, 6 otos, 2 adult HSLs and 1 juvenile. I also have 1 young rabbit snail and 3 nerite snails. Additionally, there is a healthy community of copepods and I'm sure some other microfauna. (I've read this is a sign of a healthy tank). Naturally, I assumed it was a bacterial bloom, so at first I did nothing and skipped water changes. Now, I've tried everything. I tried more water changes. I got a larger filter (new + existing media to keep BB alive) and put purigen and poly-fil (filter floss) in it. I've tried Fritz clarity a few times. I've even been feeding less, assuming it was the fresh cucumber that was causing the trouble. Nope. Fish and invertebrates are all happy, healthy, and appear to be thriving. Any advice on how to address the situation would be greatly appreciated. ❤️ More info: Filter is an Aqua Clear 50, Heater is a Fluval T Series, and I have an air stone for the Otos and HSLs on the back side of the tank. Image attached. Edited March 27 by Rosi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynameisnobody Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Have you tried filter floss? This could work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosi Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 On 3/27/2024 at 3:01 PM, mynameisnobody said: Have you tried filter floss? This could work. Yeah, that's what the poly-fil is for. It's the same as filter floss, just a different name. 😕 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 How long have you had this tank set up? Do you have any other tanks in the house.. If you put a sample of water in a white container is there a green tinge to it? If yes could be green algae water starting… I had similar happen in a 17 gallon fish bowl that at the time was bare bottom and youngish after putting new fish in it and treating with quarantine meds. I went to bed thinking it looked a rad foggy and woke up to the bowl looking like the glass was completely frosted over. testing parameters showed no ammonia or nitrites and ph normal… I placed a spare sponge filter that I keep in a display tank to keep a cycled one on hand and 12 hours later the tank was much clearer, and by 24 it was as clear as any of my other tanks. without question it is frustrating… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosi Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 On 3/27/2024 at 3:36 PM, Pepere said: How long have you had this tank set up? Do you have any other tanks in the house.. If you put a sample of water in a white container is there a green tinge to it? If yes could be green algae water starting… I had similar happen in a 17 gallon fish bowl that at the time was bare bottom and youngish after putting new fish in it and treating with quarantine meds. I went to bed thinking it looked a rad foggy and woke up to the bowl looking like the glass was completely frosted over. testing parameters showed no ammonia or nitrites and ph normal… I placed a spare sponge filter that I keep in a display tank to keep a cycled one on hand and 12 hours later the tank was much clearer, and by 24 it was as clear as any of my other tanks. without question it is frustrating… I have had the tank up and running for 3 months. The last month the water has been milky white. I have tried cleaning the glass, to no avail. No green tinge. Like yours, it has tested fine every few days-no spikes at all. I do have a 10g and ironically I used water from the 20g + filter media to speed up the cycle on that one. However, the water in that tank is perfectly clear. The only thing that I can think of is that the fresh cucumbers caused the water in the 20g to turn cloudy. I have peacock gudgeons and a few Nerites in the 10g. But I don't feed them cucumbers. I haven't had any cucumbers in the 20g for ~4 days, but the issue persists and doesn't appear to be clearing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 It might be worth running a sponge filter in the clear tank for two weeks to seed it well and then transferring to the problem tank. What are you using for biomedia? in the meantime rather than replacing polyfill when servicing I would simply squeeze it under tank water and replace. It will be home to a nice amount of bacteria. these are the sponge filters I keep cycled to transfer to a tank in need of extra care. They attach to tank wall freeing up valuable substrate real estate. 4 pack for $14.00 at Amazon… https://www.amazon.com/Aquaneat-Sponge-Filter-Aquarium-XY-2831/dp/B06XZZ2BXY/ref=sr_1_5_pp?crid=3A8V5IEXVW0GZ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ZW-31rmKFgCEWbZD6E2tjautoT-G0Z9xscsppuhEDsvJsrshhSsx6ibuRQC73wtEfQbrfRCkcjj3F3vziQIi32fFKzbHycIcaGOIpeRALboXGSVzQGAbjI9qYLtQtn-O6UlEVOjaAEgD3dB5Xl8o4Mi_JY5qNnBtgsb9IEF-aWOZl8lFvZim4XQUe_3i3KZ4jHMDg7Ajk1vO7rlKvglGKFn5LNnEWF7ZbY6qyZ5OhpBoJHCuG0TyMYTN2cJD3LjbSKD9PR6p52mBB8QdoB30DcL_D7TigIlqVt8n-1A-94k.ydMKvHFtMYaVH4JcpyNBSQ2HRjZPYE6LDGmYMvkAzlg&dib_tag=se&keywords=double+sponge+filter&qid=1711579082&sprefix=Double+sponge%2Caps%2C347&sr=8-5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosi Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 (edited) On 3/27/2024 at 4:38 PM, Pepere said: It might be worth running a sponge filter in the clear tank for two weeks to seed it well and then transferring to the problem tank. What are you using for biomedia? in the meantime rather than replacing polyfill when servicing I would simply squeeze it under tank water and replace. It will be home to a nice amount of bacteria. these are the sponge filters I keep cycled to transfer to a tank in need of extra care. They attach to tank wall freeing up valuable substrate real estate. 4 pack for $14.00 at Amazon… https://www.amazon.com/Aquaneat-Sponge-Filter-Aquarium-XY-2831/dp/B06XZZ2BXY/ref=sr_1_5_pp?crid=3A8V5IEXVW0GZ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ZW-31rmKFgCEWbZD6E2tjautoT-G0Z9xscsppuhEDsvJsrshhSsx6ibuRQC73wtEfQbrfRCkcjj3F3vziQIi32fFKzbHycIcaGOIpeRALboXGSVzQGAbjI9qYLtQtn-O6UlEVOjaAEgD3dB5Xl8o4Mi_JY5qNnBtgsb9IEF-aWOZl8lFvZim4XQUe_3i3KZ4jHMDg7Ajk1vO7rlKvglGKFn5LNnEWF7ZbY6qyZ5OhpBoJHCuG0TyMYTN2cJD3LjbSKD9PR6p52mBB8QdoB30DcL_D7TigIlqVt8n-1A-94k.ydMKvHFtMYaVH4JcpyNBSQ2HRjZPYE6LDGmYMvkAzlg&dib_tag=se&keywords=double+sponge+filter&qid=1711579082&sprefix=Double+sponge%2Caps%2C347&sr=8-5 Thanks! I use a generous bag of Fluval Biomax, Purigen, the Poly-fil, and two different sponges in the filter of the milky tank. I have quite a few less fish in the 10g (the newer, clear tank) than in the 20g (the milky tank), so I suspect there are less BB in there with a lighter bio-load. I can certainly try that, but I feel the issue isn't that the BB are too few in the 20g since all of my parameters are and remain perfect. Edited March 27 by Rosi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 On 3/27/2024 at 6:46 PM, Rosi said: can certainly try that, but I feel the issue isn't that the BB are too few in the 20g since all of my parameters are and remain perfect. Right. You have plenty to nitrify ammonia and nitrites. what you need is to build the population of heterotrophic bacteria for crystal clear water. The amount of surface area for nitrifying bacteria is less than that needed for sufficient heterotrophic bacteria to clean up the water. search the phrase “heterotrophic bacteria and crystal clear water”. My gut feeling is that it is bacteria Not throwing out your polyfill should help. I am not personally sold on the ceramic type biomedia. On paper they have LOT of surface area but in practice, I suspect their pores get clogged with biofilm and functionally the surface area is not so great. In any event, I dont suspect it will hurt anything…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosi Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 On 3/27/2024 at 8:58 PM, Pepere said: Right. You have plenty to nitrify ammonia and nitrites. what you need is to build the population of heterotrophic bacteria for crystal clear water. The amount of surface area for nitrifying bacteria is less than that needed for sufficient heterotrophic bacteria to clean up the water. search the phrase “heterotrophic bacteria and crystal clear water”. My gut feeling is that it is bacteria Not throwing out your polyfill should help. I am not personally sold on the ceramic type biomedia. On paper they have LOT of surface area but in practice, I suspect their pores get clogged with biofilm and functionally the surface area is not so great. In any event, I dont suspect it will hurt anything…. This is super helpful, thank you. I will definitely Google "heterotrophic bacteria and crystal clear water". I have also wondered about the Biomax getting clogged. It would seem that it would, considering how the larger holes in sponges get clogged, too. Aside from the sponge filter in the 10g and not throwing out the poly-fil, do you have any recommendations for filter media to replace the Biomax for added surface area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 On 3/27/2024 at 11:10 PM, Rosi said: This is super helpful, thank you. I will definitely Google "heterotrophic bacteria and crystal clear water". I have also wondered about the Biomax getting clogged. It would seem that it would, considering how the larger holes in sponges get clogged, too. Aside from the sponge filter in the 10g and not throwing out the poly-fil, do you have any recommendations for filter media to replace the Biomax for added surface area? The fine pore sponges on the double sponge filters I keep cycled gets squeezed out in a weekly basis. The difference in water flow before and after is noticeable. Coarser sponges should go at least a month. While some people go longer with coarse sponge, I like cleaning them out to get the trapped detritus out of the tank thereby reducing waste organics in the tank. I dont use ceramic type media myself. In my zfluval canister filters I use theprovided foam pads, the a quick lear pad on top of the biofoam then instead of ceramic type media I use cheap nylon pot scrubbers in the next two chambers and pack some polyfill in the gaps in the corners to prevent water bypassing the scrubbies,amd a purigen packet last of all. I cant say this is the “Best possible” filtration setup, but I am pleased with the results it gets me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosi Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 On 3/27/2024 at 9:21 PM, Pepere said: The fine pore sponges on the double sponge filters I keep cycled gets squeezed out in a weekly basis. The difference in water flow before and after is noticeable. Coarser sponges should go at least a month. While some people go longer with coarse sponge, I like cleaning them out to get the trapped detritus out of the tank thereby reducing waste organics in the tank. I dont use ceramic type media myself. In my zfluval canister filters I use theprovided foam pads, the a quick lear pad on top of the biofoam then instead of ceramic type media I use cheap nylon pot scrubbers in the next two chambers and pack some polyfill in the gaps in the corners to prevent water bypassing the scrubbies,amd a purigen packet last of all. I cant say this is the “Best possible” filtration setup, but I am pleased with the results it gets me. This is great. I've considered a canister filter, but I am not sure about it for my 20g just yet. I've looked into them for the surface area, the output hose (which might be too much for my long-fin betta), and because they're not inside the tank. I eventually want a 65g and I will likely get a canister then. For more surface area in a HOB, do you recommend getting a second HOB for the 20g? I know it might be overkill, but it would enable me to have more hidden places for various sponges. I'm one of those people that really likes to understand the details and how everything connects. You've been really helpful. ♥️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 I have a fluval 107 on my 20 high. I use the fluval spray bar positioned on;the back of the tank right below water level with the flow aimed at the front of the tank. This sets up a gentle circular flow across the top, down the front and then back torward the back of the tank and up to the flow bar. sometimes fish will surf the current near the front if the glass, but they know that setting back an inch or so from the glass is fairly calm water. what hob do you have currently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefhugger Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 On 3/27/2024 at 11:21 PM, Pepere said: Google "heterotrophic bacteria and crystal clear water" This lead me to a website on aquarium science; what an eye opener it has been for me on maintenence. Thank you. This is a humbling hobby isn't it? Always so much more to learn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosi Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 On 3/28/2024 at 3:48 AM, Pepere said: I have a fluval 107 on my 20 high. I use the fluval spray bar positioned on;the back of the tank right below water level with the flow aimed at the front of the tank. This sets up a gentle circular flow across the top, down the front and then back torward the back of the tank and up to the flow bar. sometimes fish will surf the current near the front if the glass, but they know that setting back an inch or so from the glass is fairly calm water. what hob do you have currently? Aqua Clear 50 (200 GPH). My betta has become a much stronger swimmer being in with the Otos and the HSLs, but there are still many areas of calm in the water. I was looking into UV sterilizers last night after we spoke last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 I wouldnt think you need another HOB in addition to the Aquaclear. I have not felt the need for a UV sterilizer myself. I have had cloudy water a few times. Every time, adding a cycled sponge filter in addition has cleared the tank up quickly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosi Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 On 3/28/2024 at 10:01 AM, Pepere said: I wouldnt think you need another HOB in addition to the Aquaclear. I have not felt the need for a UV sterilizer myself. I have had cloudy water a few times. Every time, adding a cycled sponge filter in addition has cleared the tank up quickly. I'll definitely look into doing that. It's hard only having two tanks. My 10g is a Peacock Gudgeon breeding tank, so I'm slightly nervous about disturbing them. Again, thank you so much for everything. You've been extremely helpful. Looks like you helped Reefhugger, too. 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Just rinsing out the polyfill and replacing eill help also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosi Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 On 3/28/2024 at 11:06 AM, Pepere said: Just rinsing out the polyfill and replacing eill help also. Ironically enough, I've thought about this. If the BB live in the filter media, and you rinse everything out in tank water, why wouldn't you do the same for the filter floss? Lol. Another question I've had that I'm seeing a ton of contradicting information on is how long the bacteria lives outside of the filter. Example, if the sponge dried out, are they all dead? I've seen so many different answers to this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 On 3/28/2024 at 1:09 PM, Rosi said: Another question I've had that I'm seeing a ton of contradicting information on is how long the bacteria lives outside of the filter. Example, if the sponge dried out, are they all dead? I've seen so many different answers to this question. And which answer is the right one… cause they are not all right… I avoid letting them dry out… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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