Preventing/Treating Columnaris in Display Tank

[svelez]

Hi everyone,

I've been keeping fish for a few years, and have been lucky enough to never encounter columnaris until now. Ugh!

For a little background, the issue is with my 125 gal. "river style" tank (doesn't have a manifold, but 2 powerful canisters creating a nice flow). It's been running for about 1 1/2 years, no new fish added recently, 50% water changes weekly, temp. between 75 and 77 degrees F, ph 8.2, 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and nitrate below 20. The panda garras in this tank, which I've had for a few years now, came in initially from the fish store with a terrible case of parasites, which seem very resistant to meds. I seem to every few months need to do a couple rounds of either Expel-P or Praziquantel to just get the levels down, but they're clearly never fully gone.

A few months ago I did lose 2 panda garras after treating with Expel-P. I don't believe I overdosed, but at the time wondered if the parasite load was much higher than I thought. Everyone else, including the orange-finned danios that I added about 6 months ago (after 6 week qt), seemed fine. The only other residents in this tank are ramshorn snails (and a ton of plants).

Fast forward to a few weeks ago, I was just about to do a 2nd round (after 2 weeks apart) of Praziquantel when I noticed a female danio with white on her mouth and coming out of her one gill. I suspected either fungus or bacterial. A few other danios had a tiny trace amount of white on their mouths, but no where else. Everyone acted fine. However, I decided to do a round of Maracyn and Ich-X together (and I realize now Maracyn isn't really effective for gram-negative, but didn't realize at the time). Since whatever it was didn't seem severe, I just dosed the tank once and let it sit a week, per aquariumcoop instructions.

This did absolutely nothing, and the danio ended up with even more white stuff on both gills, her mouth, and one fin. Not fluffy, but very noticeable. I removed her to another tank and did 1 Tbsp of aquarium salt per 3 gallons water. After a couple of days she was flashing like crazy, but then after 5 days the white stuff was pretty much all gone. I did a water change at the 1 week mark, without adding more salt, and when she continued to do well for another week, added her back into the main tank. During her salt treatment, I did one more treatment of Maracyn in the display tank, and after that was finished, finally got around to dosing Praziquantel again. All the tiny trace amount of white on the other danios' mouths disappeared during this time.

Everyone seemed to be doing fine since then, until now. I started another round of Praziquantel this past Saturday. Everyone, panda garras and danios, has been flashing very badly since then, I am assuming from the flukes dropping off. Unfortunately, I also saw the return of some white patches on my one danio, and it seems even worse. Last night, when I looked in the tank, there were several danios with slight patches of white on their mouths and what looked like pale patches on the "saddle" area of a few danios. Now that I'm thinking this is columnaris (possibly a secondary infection from the flukes???), I removed ALL of the danios to a hospital tank last night, and am going to try a salt treatment at 1 Tbsp per 2 gallons. I do have Maracyn 2 if it comes to that, but at the moment everyone still acts fine. I'm hesistant to do an antibiotic since I'm not 100% sure of what this is, although it does seem to be columnaris, albeit a slow moving strain. I also turned the temp down to 74-75 degrees, since I guess that slows down the infection.

My main concern right now is the panda garras, which are still in the main display tank. They are even harder to catch than the danios, and more easily stressed by being caught, and since they show no sign of bacterial infection, just a lot of flashing, I'm inclined to leave them be and just continue the Praziquantel. However, should I consider dosing Maracyn 2 in the display tank as a preventative? I know, from research I did online, it seems the flavobacterium that causes columnaris is probably present in the tank, just looking for someone with a weakened immune system. I wish I could do salt, but the plants would probably die, and I'm not even sure how the panda garras would do in salt. I can't find much info about them online. I do not care about the ramshorn snails; they do a nice job cleaning but multiply so bad.

Thank you for any suggestions provided, and so sorry for the story-length post!!!

Sarah BV

[Colu]

Columnaris is a gram negative bacterial infection that spreads more quickly at temperatures over 75 and can kill in 24hr to 7 days depending on the stain the most effective treatment I have found is kanaplex and jungal fungus clear fizz tabs containing nitrofurazone following this treatment plan as you have maracyn2 to hand I would start treating straight away I would get holed of kanaplex and jungal fungus clear fizz tabs  just in case you need it if your having persistent problems with parasite I would use flubendazole or fenbendazole both are toxic to shrimp and snails @svelez

Edited March 13 by Colu

[svelez]

Thank you so much, @Colu! Especially for the tip on flubendazole. I'll have to see if I can get it from somewhere.

I ordered the Jungle Fungus tabs and Kanaplex for just in case. Ken's Fish already shipped so should be here in a couple days. Now I just have to see if I have enough Maracyn 2 to dose the entire 125 gallon display tank. 

For the danios in quarantine, I'll increase the salt to 1 Tbsp per gallon to go with the "Level 3" treatment. The salt doesn't seem to bother them much. The one danio who has the worst case was already looking a lot better this morning, after just 12 hours and that was just with half of the salt dosage (I spread it out to give them time to adjust). I am wondering if they really need the Maracyn 2 as well, given that there is already improvement. I hate dosing antibiotics if I don't have to, especially as I am likely to crash the cycle in that temporary hospital tank.

[Colu]

On 3/14/2024 at 12:39 AM, svelez said:

Thank you so much, @Colu! Especially for the tip on flubendazole. I'll have to see if I can get it from somewhere.

I ordered the Jungle Fungus tabs and Kanaplex for just in case. Ken's Fish already shipped so should be here in a couple days. Now I just have to see if I have enough Maracyn 2 to dose the entire 125 gallon display tank. 

For the danios in quarantine, I'll increase the salt to 1 Tbsp per gallon to go with the "Level 3" treatment. The salt doesn't seem to bother them much. The one danio who has the worst case was already looking a lot better this morning, after just 12 hours and that was just with half of the salt dosage (I spread it out to give them time to adjust). I am wondering if they really need the Maracyn 2 as well, given that there is already improvement. I hate dosing antibiotics if I don't have to, especially as I am likely to crash the cycle in that temporary hospital tank.

If it's columnaris it's a very aggressive bacterial infections in my experience salt alone won't be enough 

[svelez]

Tonight marks the last dose of Maracyn 2 (5 day course), and while the original spots of infection on my danios' mouths look completely healed, I am seeing different white patches on them elsewhere. Unfortunately, I can't tell if this is the infection spreading or if they injured themselves 😞. The other day I installed a light on the hospital tank so I could see how the fish were doing (didn't have a spare light earlier unfortunately), and it was a rookie mistake - I turned the light on and all the danios went flying, trying to bury themselves in anything they could find. I feel terrible I scared them so. They looked extremely beat up after that. Now a few have some white patches on their fins, scrapes on their bodies (looks like missing scales), and one even has was looks like injuries to both eyes, with something looking like loose scales covering both eyes. I realize all of this could be the infection spreading, although again the white on their mouths is all gone, and they are eating very well.

Anyways, to be on the safe side, I thought I would try kanaplex/jungle fungus tabs as suggested. Should I wait a few days in between, or just do a couple very large water changes to get rid of the Maracyn 2?

Thank you again for all the suggestions. Sorry to be a pain and keep asking questions!

[Colu]

On 3/18/2024 at 11:09 PM, svelez said:

Tonight marks the last dose of Maracyn 2 (5 day course), and while the original spots of infection on my danios' mouths look completely healed, I am seeing different white patches on them elsewhere. Unfortunately, I can't tell if this is the infection spreading or if they injured themselves 😞. The other day I installed a light on the hospital tank so I could see how the fish were doing (didn't have a spare light earlier unfortunately), and it was a rookie mistake - I turned the light on and all the danios went flying, trying to bury themselves in anything they could find. I feel terrible I scared them so. They looked extremely beat up after that. Now a few have some white patches on their fins, scrapes on their bodies (looks like missing scales), and one even has was looks like injuries to both eyes, with something looking like loose scales covering both eyes. I realize all of this could be the infection spreading, although again the white on their mouths is all gone, and they are eating very well.

Anyways, to be on the safe side, I thought I would try kanaplex/jungle fungus tabs as suggested. Should I wait a few days in between, or just do a couple very large water changes to get rid of the Maracyn 2?

Thank you again for all the suggestions. Sorry to be a pain and keep asking questions!

You can Do two 50% water changes or one large water change and run active carbon for 24hr to remove any remaining medication before treating with kanaplex and jungal fungus clear 

[svelez]

Thank you @Colu. I appreciate it. Should I keep up with the salt concentration, or is that a bad mix with Kanaplex/Jungle Fungus tabs?

Thanks again.

[Colu]

On 3/19/2024 at 12:45 AM, svelez said:

Thank you @Colu. I appreciate it. Should I keep up with the salt concentration, or is that a bad mix with Kanaplex/Jungle Fungus tabs?

Thanks again.

Salt is fine to use with antibiotic medication I would gradually start to remove the salt over the next couple of days 

[svelez]

Thank you again! 

Next question is - my panda garras in the main display tank still seem fine, even though the danios have been affected for a couple weeks now. I feel like doing a preventative treatment on the display tank with Maracyn 2, just one dose and let sit a week like Cory does with the quarantine meds. I'm not sure how well Maracyn 2 works in my hard water, though (ph 8.2). Could I do a single dose of Kanaplex and/or the Jungle Fungus tabs, and let sit a week, or do these meds not work that way? Or should I just skip meds on the display tank and do extra water changes?

Thank you for all your help!

[Colu]

On 3/20/2024 at 1:48 AM, svelez said:

Thank you again! 

Next question is - my panda garras in the main display tank still seem fine, even though the danios have been affected for a couple weeks now. I feel like doing a preventative treatment on the display tank with Maracyn 2, just one dose and let sit a week like Cory does with the quarantine meds. I'm not sure how well Maracyn 2 works in my hard water, though (ph 8.2). Could I do a single dose of Kanaplex and/or the Jungle Fungus tabs, and let sit a week, or do these meds not work that way? Or should I just skip meds on the display tank and do extra water changes?

Thank you for all your help!

I wouldn't recommend adding one dose and leaving it for week with any antibiotic medication that can lead to antibiotic resistant If your other fish aren't showing any symptoms I would just monitor for now and only treat if your fish start showing symptoms active ingredient in maracyn2 minocycline is less effective in hard water with a higher pH kanaplex is better choice for hard water high pH 

[svelez]

Hi all! I know it's been a month, and I just wanted to post an update in case anyone visits this thread.

I have not lost a single danio, but it's certainly been a frustrating experience. After a full course of Maracyn 2, my danios in the hospital tank looked better but not completely healed, so after 2 large water changes I proceeded with a full course of Kanaplex/Jungle Fizz tabs, according to @Colu's instructions. The danios were still acting okay throughout all of this and eating okay, but I did noticed after the Kanaplex/Jungle tabs, their appetite greatly increased, which I took as a good sign.

The bad news is that the meds caused a slight ammonia/nitrite bump. I was expecting it, and testing the water for it, but what I wasn't expecting was for a sponge filter completely clogged up with mold or fungus. There was visible mold (white and green spots) growing on the sides of the tank near the air stones, and the sponge filter was so clogged that when I removed it, it wouldn't release the water and weighed a ton! I also ended up with one danio that got a fungus infection (I'm assuming secondary to the columnaris). 

To say the least, this was a strange experience, and while I think the meds worked, I'm highly suspicious of those Jungle Fizz tabs. Date on the box was fine (2028). I've never seen mold growing on the aquarium glass, and certainly never had a sponge filter clogged with visible white fungus.

My danios ended up flashing and beating themselves up quite a bit with the ammonia/nitrite bump, but after switching out for a HOB filter filled with cycled media, we now have that under control. I've had the danios in a Level 3 salt treatment for a few weeks, just to make sure the columnaris is gone and to help all the abrasions from them flashing to heal. They are looking a lot better now, although I still see a couple spots that are not quite fully healed. A couple of the males have actually decided to color up and I'm seeing some spawning activity, which I take as a sign they're feeling much better, even with all that salt. I plan to start taking it out through water changes in the next couple days, and hopefully, fingers crossed, the infection won't return!

Side note - no one in the main display tank ever got this, thank goodness. A huge thank you to @Colu for taking the time to respond to my many questions!

[svelez]

I spoke too soon. I was feeding the danios today, everyone looked great, and then suddenly one of them appeared to have a seizure. It looked dead, but then started breathing again, and after a couple minutes could slowly swim, but was in clear distress, so I euthanized it. Not sure if this could be some after effect from the infection, or just one of those weird things. Pretty disappointing because they've been good for a few weeks now.