Hard Water Second Opinion

[Tony s]

@Mikon77  yeah, mixing will work fine. And give greater options. It’s personal choice at this point. Not entirely necessary, but easily doable as long as you’re consistent. The thing to be careful with. Gh and kh don’t evaporate. So just tank top offs should be from Ro only water. Or both will rise quickly. A problem I was having. I used reminerized Ro to top off and pushed my gh very high. Still didn’t cause an issue though. Which goes back to the original question. And no, you don’t really need ro. Higher gh/kh isn’t really going to be an issue. Even for angels.

On 3/5/2024 at 11:05 PM, Mikon77 said:

unfortunately I don’t have room for any other aquariums

You’d be surprised. I have tanks on end tables, kitchen counters, dressers. As long as they’re well built. A 20 with everything weighs about 200lb. A 10 is even easier. Around 100lbs

Edited March 6 by Tony s

[jwcarlson]

On 3/5/2024 at 10:13 PM, Mikon77 said:

I’m a little confused when you mention bacteria and high pH. Does that mean the tank would be at a higher risk for bad bacteria as well? I also plan on planting some live plants as well, if my water will allow it. Plants such as java fern and anubias.

Anubias and java fern do OK for me.

Regarding bacteria and high pH, technically yes, it is at a higher risk.  Which is my point.  That said, I do not believe the risk is massive for most fish species.  But for particularly sensitive ones like discus, it can be more difficult.  If you think of the "sweet spot" for keeping a particular fish... the sweet spot for many of the fish in the hobby gets quite a bit smaller with hard water.  But there's still a sweet spot.  You might have to change a little more water or clean filters more regularly than people with soft/acidic water.  But it's really just about proper maintenance in the long run.  Avoiding it is not worth the additional cost and hassle of an RO unit IMO (and I have an RO unit for some fish I'm trying to breed).

[JettsPapa]

My well water is 8.2 pH, and harder than OP's (gh and kh both close to 300 ppm), and I keep a wide variety of fish, plants, and invertebrates.  Unless there's something going on with your water other than pH and hardness I don't see why you couldn't use it as-is (other than adding conditioner to neutralize chlorine of course).

There are some things you wouldn't be able to keep, of course, but here is a list of some that have done well for me.  There are probably others that I'm forgetting.

• Guppies
• Lake Kutubu rainbowfish (turquoise rainbowfish)
• Pearl gouramis
• Green corys, panda corys, and Corydoras trilineatus
• Serpae, pristella, lemon, and black neon tetras (though the black neons started dying off after about four years)
• Amano, along with red cherry shrimp and several other colors
• Several crypt varieties, corkscrew val, several stem plants, guppy grass, pearl weed, susswassertang, hornwort, and anacharis

I see no reason African cichlids wouldn't also do well, but since I enjoy the plants about as much as the livestock I haven't tried them.

[Mikon77]

On 3/6/2024 at 5:20 AM, Tony s said:

@Mikon77  yeah, mixing will work fine. And give greater options. It’s personal choice at this point. Not entirely necessary, but easily doable as long as you’re consistent. The thing to be careful with. Gh and kh don’t evaporate. So just tank top offs should be from Ro only water. Or both will rise quickly. A problem I was having. I used reminerized Ro to top off and pushed my gh very high. Still didn’t cause an issue though. Which goes back to the original question. And no, you don’t really need ro. Higher gh/kh isn’t really going to be an issue. Even for angels.

I’ll do a bit more research and decide this weekend which approach I’ll take. I’m kinda leaning towards getting an RO system just to open up more options, and cleaner drinking water for my cats and dog would also be a massive improvement as well!

On 3/6/2024 at 5:20 AM, Tony s said:

@Mikon77 You’d be surprised. I have tanks on end tables, kitchen counters, dressers. As long as they’re well built. A 20 with everything weighs about 200lb. A 10 is even easier. Around 100lbs

Oh I’m sure if this first tank goes extremely well, I’ll be making room for a second no matter what!

[Mikon77]

On 3/6/2024 at 10:31 AM, jwcarlson said:

Anubias and java fern do OK for me.

Regarding bacteria and high pH, technically yes, it is at a higher risk.  Which is my point.  That said, I do not believe the risk is massive for most fish species.  But for particularly sensitive ones like discus, it can be more difficult.  If you think of the "sweet spot" for keeping a particular fish... the sweet spot for many of the fish in the hobby gets quite a bit smaller with hard water.  But there's still a sweet spot.  You might have to change a little more water or clean filters more regularly than people with soft/acidic water.  But it's really just about proper maintenance in the long run.  Avoiding it is not worth the additional cost and hassle of an RO unit IMO (and I have an RO unit for some fish I'm trying to breed).

Oh ok. As long as the risk wouldn’t be too massive haha. If it’s just proper maintenance in the long run, that’s not bad at all. I’m going to be doing a lot of thinking this weekend on which approach to take. 

 

 

On 3/6/2024 at 11:45 AM, JettsPapa said:

My well water is 8.2 pH, and harder than OP's (gh and kh both close to 300 ppm), and I keep a wide variety of fish, plants, and invertebrates.  Unless there's something going on with your water other than pH and hardness I don't see why you couldn't use it as-is (other than adding conditioner to neutralize chlorine of course).

I did test my tap water for ammonia yesterday and it was at 1.0, almost close to the next mark. Would this be something to cause an big issue?

[jwcarlson]

The ammonia could certainly be an issue.  Isn't 1 ppm above the drinking water standard?  I'm not super well versed on these things, however.

[Mikon77]

On 3/6/2024 at 12:10 PM, jwcarlson said:

The ammonia could certainly be an issue.  Isn't 1 ppm above the drinking water standard?  I'm not super well versed on these things, however.

It wouldn’t surprise me. My city has no interest in improving our water. I know whenever we get a boil water notice, everyone jokes that it doesn’t matter because the water isn’t fit for consumption anyway.

Edited March 6 by Mikon77

[KaitieG]

Sounds like maybe YOU would also benefit from an RO system...you and your fish.  In which case, go for it!!

Here are my experiences with the hard water thing:

I have extremely hard water.  PH 8.0-8.2, off the charts GH and KH on the test strips.  I've had REALLY good luck with most fish from local breeders...even found a guy who breeds angelfish in rock hard water, and those have done great.  But I've also had good luck with **most** of the softer water species I've tried.  Please note, these are only my PERSONAL experiences...

FISH

Guppies have done well, I have had between 50 and 300 at any given time...but ones I started with didn't live very long once they moved here (despite being from a very reputable breeder).  All of the offspring have done very, very well.  I think they adapt over a generation or two.  

Molllies and Swordtails have done fairly well.  Not as well as guppies.  Could just be me.

Habrosus Corys and various Aneus Corys have done extremely well (breed and occasionally survive even in my community tanks!)

Bristlenose Plecos have done great (same as Corys...breeding and healthy)

Bettas seem to live a year or two in my water.

Neons did fine and I didn't loose any until I did a major tank overhaul and move, and then I had some disease issues pop up.

White clouds did well.

Ember tetras have done well.

Glass Catfish are too new to have a longevity report, but no issues with acclimating, and they're really marginal.

Snails do great.

Angelfish from local hard water breeder...awesome!

Neocardina shrimp did great when I got them from a local person.  

PLANTS

Valisinaria 10/10

Anubias 10/10

Java Fern 5/10

Pogostemmon Stelatus Octopus (8/10)

Crypts (8/10)

Red Flame Sword (10/10)

Dwarf Sag (10/10)

Floating Plants...I have the HARDEST time with these.  Either overrun or all gone.  

All this to say, I think it's a good idea to try to work with what you have unless you have a very specific fish that is known to be touchy and needs very specific conditions.  My local fish stores use RO water too, mostly because they have it and they also do salt water.  They say they have few issues with people transitioning fish into the almost all hardwater setups around here.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 6 by KaitieG

[Tony s]

On 3/6/2024 at 2:19 PM, KaitieG said:

Habrosus Corys and various Aneus Corys

can add skunk corys and peppered corys (paleatus) to that list.

platys love this water

all rainbow fish (not sure about the psuedomugils)

gourami's both dwarf and honey.

black and white skirt tetras.

danios and rasboras of all kinds

and so far, bolivian rams    well... they're still here so far, need a bit more history on them

[JettsPapa]

On 3/6/2024 at 1:19 PM, KaitieG said:

. . . Floating Plants...I have the HARDEST time with these.  Either overrun or all gone.  

All this to say, I think it's a good idea to try to work with what you have unless you have a very specific fish that is known to be touchy and needs very specific conditions.  My local fish stores use RO water too, mostly because they have it and they also do salt water.  They say they have few issues with people transitioning fish into the almost all hardwater setups around here.

I have very similar water, though maybe not quite as hard, and I've also struggled with some floating plants, and most the ones that do well seem to only do so in one or two of my 10 tanks.

• Dwarf water lettuce did great everywhere I put it, but then I learned it's illegal to keep in my state so I got rid of all of it.
• I recently got some variegated frogbit that I introduced to about half of my tanks.  It's doing great in one or two, growing and expanding slowly in one or two, and just hanging on in the rest.
• Hornwort does well, if it can get past the initial period of being introduced to a new tank.  When I do that it seems to either keep growing without missing a beat, or drop every needle in the first two days.
• Guppy grass and pearl weed do well, but they aren't classic floating plants.
• Anacharis is finicky, but once established it does well for me.  Oddly enough, it's doing best in a 5.5 gallon tank with no mechanical filtration or water movement.

[KaitieG]

On 3/7/2024 at 9:16 AM, JettsPapa said:

I have very similar water, though maybe not quite as hard, and I've also struggled with some floating plants, and most the ones that do well seem to only do so in one or two of my 10 tanks.

I've had success in two of my 5 tanks, ever.  I was successful with dwarf water lettuce to the point that it took over the whole top of a 95 gallon and my 10 gallon, but then I cleared out about half of it, and the rest just slowly died over the next couple months after that.  

I also had duckweed take over the 95 at one point.  Cleaned out most of it and the rest died off.  

I don't get it.

Frogbit, red root floaters, water spangles, etc. have all died.

[JettsPapa]

On 3/7/2024 at 9:19 AM, KaitieG said:

. . . Frogbit, red root floaters, water spangles, etc. have all died.

I tried red root floaters in several tanks.  It died a horrible screaming death.

On 3/7/2024 at 9:19 AM, KaitieG said:

. . . I also had duckweed take over the 95 at one point.  Cleaned out most of it and the rest died off.  

Duckweed also did very well for me.  I didn't mention it above because I'm trying to forget the experience.  Every time I think I have it eradicated it rears its ugly head again.