Working on lowering ammonia but have green algae growing

[JillianGarcia05]

Hi all, 

I posted last week and got a lot of help (thank you!) about how to lower the ammonia levels in my new betta tank since I crashed the cycle that hadn't even been established yet - was in the process. 

Currently, the readings are the following:

• pH: 7.0
• Ammonia: .25 ppm
• Nitrite: 0 ppm
• Nitrate: 0 ppm

I have been doing the following daily for the past week:

• 25% water changes dosing new water with Seachem prime
• Adding a 1/4 cap full of Seachem Stability - trying to add BB
• Adding 1/4 cap of Seachem Stress Guard - to help promote healing and stress relief for my betta 

I know the goal is 0 ammonia. But, curious if you all know what may be causing green algae to grow. It looks on the darker side of algae I've seen in the past. So wasn't sure what was going on.

I don't want to add any more chemicals to the tank since she's been showing signs off and in the past couple of days feeling better. Today she was making bubbles on the top of her tank (which is what she did before getting sick).

My first question is, are the above daily steps correct? Am I adding the stability stuff too soon and should I wait for a 0 ammonia level and then proceed with the BB? Is that the wrong kind of BB?

Between help from the last post and things I've researched, this is a back-and-forth topic should you wait or should you do it?

The second question - is that algae harmful? And if it is, how can I remove it without disturbing this entire process I've been doing for the past week? I can take a picture too if people would like to see it.

Many thanks to a new tank owner!

EDIT 11/28: To clarify - there is a female crown tail betta in the tank

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by JillianGarcia05
Adding clarification

[Tlindsey]

On 11/27/2023 at 12:55 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

what may be causing green algae to grow.

How many times a day do you feed Betta?

How long is light kept on?

[JillianGarcia05]

On 11/27/2023 at 10:24 AM, Tlindsey said:

How many times a day do you feed Betta?

Currently, she's been eating super infrequently due to the ammonia levels being high (it was at 2.0 ppm last Tuesday). So she ate a little breakfast on Friday and then two days she wasn't interested, then today she ate a tiny pinchful this morning. However, prior to this I was feeding her 2x a day (morning and evening) and just a pinchful.

On 11/27/2023 at 10:24 AM, Tlindsey said:

How long is light kept on?

Currently have the light off since someone suggested while she's recouping, low lights might be best. So just my lights from over my kitchen sink are on for about... 14 hours? When I used her overhead light I made sure they were on for 8 hours. However, I'm wondering if the tank light I have is the best. Here's the tank kit I bought end of September: https://www.petsmart.com/fish/starter-kits/top-fin-all-in-one-betta-aquarium-starter-kit---3-gallon-5321019.html?gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIoaTe7ufkggMViSGtBh3cegR0EAQYASABEgLxwfD_BwE

 

[Tlindsey]

On 11/27/2023 at 1:31 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

Currently, she's been eating super infrequently due to the ammonia levels being high (it was at 2.0 ppm last Tuesday). So she ate a little breakfast on Friday and then two days she wasn't interested, then today she ate a tiny pinchful this morning. However, prior to this I was feeding her 2x a day (morning and evening) and just a pinchful.

Currently have the light off since someone suggested while she's recouping, low lights might be best. So just my lights from over my kitchen sink are on for about... 14 hours? When I used her overhead light I made sure they were on for 8 hours. However, I'm wondering if the tank light I have is the best. Here's the tank kit I bought end of September: https://www.petsmart.com/fish/starter-kits/top-fin-all-in-one-betta-aquarium-starter-kit---3-gallon-5321019.html?gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIoaTe7ufkggMViSGtBh3cegR0EAQYASABEgLxwfD_BwE

I personally would keep feeding lightly once a day even after the cycling is fully complete. I would also do larger wc's that should help to rid the algae.

 

[JettsPapa]

On 11/27/2023 at 11:55 AM, JillianGarcia05 said:

First question is, are the above daily steps correct? Am I adding the stability stuff too soon and should I wait for a 0 ammonia level and then proceed with the BB? Is that the wrong kind of BB?

I don't use the beneficial bacteria, and am skeptical about its usefulness anyway, but everything else looks okay.  Keeping up with the water changes is the most important.

On 11/27/2023 at 11:55 AM, JillianGarcia05 said:

second question - is that algae harmful? And if it is, how can I remove it without disturbing this entire process I've been doing for the past week? I can take a picture too if people would like to see it.

No, the algae isn't harmful.  In fact, many fish keepers scrape the algae off the front of the tank and leave the other sides alone.  If you do want to get rid of it, I'd recommend not worrying about that until you get your tank stabilized.  There will be plenty of time then, if it doesn't clear up on its own (though lowering the amount of time the lights are on, or lowering their intensity, probably won't hurt).

[JillianGarcia05]

On 11/27/2023 at 10:48 AM, JettsPapa said:

I don't use the beneficial bacteria, and am skeptical about its usefulness anyway, but everything else looks okay.  Keeping up with the water changes is the most important.

Hi @JettsPapa - Would you recommend not using the Seachem Stabilizer while I'm trying to get my tank to balance out? 

On 11/27/2023 at 10:48 AM, JettsPapa said:

No, the algae isn't harmful.  In fact, many fish keepers scrape the algae off the front of the tank and leave the other sides alone.  If you do want to get rid of it, I'd recommend not worrying about that until you get your tank stabilized.  There will be plenty of time then, if it doesn't clear up on its own (though lowering the amount of time the lights are on, or lowering their intensity, probably won't hurt).

I guess my concern is the color. I read there's a green-blue algae that's harmful. But maybe I'm wrong?

[JettsPapa]

On 11/27/2023 at 1:00 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

Hi @JettsPapa - Would you recommend not using the Seachem Stabilizer while I'm trying to get my tank to balance out? 

I don't think it hurts anything, but I also wouldn't depend on it working.

On 11/27/2023 at 1:00 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

I guess my concern is the color. I read there's a green-blue algae that's harmful. But maybe I'm wrong?

I believe that type is harmful, but it's also my understanding that it's uncommon.  I'd be surprised if that's what you have.

[JillianGarcia05]

Hi @JettsPapa

On 11/27/2023 at 12:36 PM, JettsPapa said:

I believe that type is harmful, but it's also my understanding that it's uncommon.  I'd be surprised if that's what you have

Please see the image attached for the algae I'm talking about. I do see some lighter greenish/brown, which is the algae I know. 

If anyone can help with a natural way to remove this while trying to balance my tank out, that would be awesome. 

[MrWestCoast]

On 11/27/2023 at 9:55 AM, JillianGarcia05 said:

My first question is, are the above daily steps correct? Am I adding the stability stuff too soon and should I wait for a 0 ammonia level and then proceed with the BB? Is that the wrong kind of BB?

 

When using seachem stability, you are not supposed to do water changes. It takes time for the beneficial bacteria to attach to hard surfaces and replicate. Doing partial water changes daily, you are basically taking out a lot of the BB you've added. This stuff works. I have used it on several tanks and have always had a cycled tank within 10-11 days. Don't forget to shake the bottle before dosing.

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by MrWestCoast

[JillianGarcia05]

On 11/27/2023 at 1:30 PM, MrWestCoast said:

When using seachem stability, you are not supposed to do water changes. It takes time for the beneficial bacteria to attach to hard surfaces and replicate. Doing partial water changes daily, you are basically taking out a lot of the BB you've added. This stuff works. I have used it on several tanks and have always had a cycled tank within 10-11 days. Don't forget to shake the bottle before dosing.

Hi @MrWestCoast,

Thank you for that insight. I'm currently trying to get my ammonia levels to 0 ppm due to a spike I had last week after unintentionally killing my cycle due to rookie mistakes. So based on what you said, while I'm trying to get it down to 0, I should hold off using the Seachem Stability? 

Just asking for insight since I'm new to owning a tank and a good lesson on why you should always research and not just buy a betta on a whim (aka a 37th birthday gift to myself). 

[Galabar]

It doesn't look like there are any live plants. So, just keep the lights off for now.

Test your tap water to make sure there is no ammonia in it.  Also, test your tap water for KH and GH and let us know the values.

Your tank may just need time.

[JillianGarcia05]

On 11/27/2023 at 3:21 PM, Galabar said:

Test your tap water to make sure there is no ammonia in it.  Also, test your tap water for KH and GH and let us know the values.

Hi @galabar

Here's what my tap water tests said - for reference, I live in western Washington, so I know our water is different than certain areas.

Done with test strip kit:

• KH: 40
• GH: 25

Done with API test kit:

• Ammonia: 0ppm

[Galabar]

On 11/27/2023 at 3:42 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

Hi @galabar

Here's what my tap water tests said - for reference, I live in western Washington, so I know our water is different than certain areas.

Done with test strip kit:

• KH: 40
• GH: 25

Done with API test kit:

• Ammonia: 0ppm

Also in western Washington. There is very little mineral content in our water.  You could try adding SeaChem Equilibrium and SeaChem Alkalinity Buffer to get those numbers up.  Also, I suggest using the API GH & KH tests to get a bit more accurate of a reading.  

[MrWestCoast]

On 11/27/2023 at 2:02 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

Hi @MrWestCoast,

Thank you for that insight. I'm currently trying to get my ammonia levels to 0 ppm due to a spike I had last week after unintentionally killing my cycle due to rookie mistakes. So based on what you said, while I'm trying to get it down to 0, I should hold off using the Seachem Stability? 

Just asking for insight since I'm new to owning a tank and a good lesson on why you should always research and not just buy a betta on a whim (aka a 37th birthday gift to myself). 

You can do either water changes or the seachem stability individually, but not together, as daily water changes will cancel out seachem stability. I personally would just add double the dose of seachem stability daily for 7-10 days. The beneficial bacteria will start consuming ammonia.

By the way, if you're using Prime, some ammonia test kits will read a false positive. I don't remember which test kits specifically, but might have been the liquid master test kit?

[JettsPapa]

I'm not clear on whether or not there are fish in the tank.  Others may disagree, but if there are I would never recommend depending on something that came from a bottle to take care of ammonia and/or nitrites instead of doing water changes to lower them immediately.  If there are no fish then there's no problem with it.

[JillianGarcia05]

On 11/28/2023 at 5:36 AM, JettsPapa said:

I'm not clear on whether or not there are fish in the tank.  Others may disagree, but if there are I would never recommend depending on something that came from a bottle to take care of ammonia and/or nitrites instead of doing water changes to lower them immediately.  If there are no fish then there's no problem with it.

Hi @JettsPapa - Yes, I do have a fish in the tank currently. This a newer tank, the only one I have. So it's just her. Currently just using prime to treat the changing water and Seachem Stress guard to help the betta. 

 

On 11/27/2023 at 4:02 PM, MrWestCoast said:

You can do either water changes or the seachem stability individually, but not together, as daily water changes will cancel out seachem stability. I personally would just add double the dose of seachem stability daily for 7-10 days. The beneficial bacteria will start consuming ammonia.

By the way, if you're using Prime, some ammonia test kits will read a false positive. I don't remember which test kits specifically, but might have been the liquid master test kit?

 

Hi @MrWestCoast - Thank you for letting me know. I'll pull back on the stability until I'm done with the water changes. However, after you mentioned the false positives, I saw that certain API freshwater and saltwater kits do sho one. However, I'm currently using the API freshwater master kit. So not sure if that's part of it? 

Today's readings are:
pH: 6.8
Ammonia: .25-.50 ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

To also clarify - this is a fish in-cyle situation. She's my only fish, a female crown tail betta. 

[MrWestCoast]

On 11/28/2023 at 9:23 AM, JillianGarcia05 said:

Hi @JettsPapa - Yes, I do have a fish in the tank currently. This a newer tank, the only one I have. So it's just her. Currently just using prime to treat the changing water and Seachem Stress guard to help the betta. 

 

 

Hi @MrWestCoast - Thank you for letting me know. I'll pull back on the stability until I'm done with the water changes. However, after you mentioned the false positives, I saw that certain API freshwater and saltwater kits do sho one. However, I'm currently using the API freshwater master kit. So not sure if that's part of it? 

Today's readings are:
pH: 6.8
Ammonia: .25-.50 ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

To also clarify - this is a fish in-cyle situation. She's my only fish, a female crown tail betta. 

What you can do is test for ammonia 24hrs after using prime to see if the test kit is testing true for ammonia.

[JillianGarcia05]

On 11/28/2023 at 9:51 AM, MrWestCoast said:

What you can do is test for ammonia 24hrs after using prime to see if the test kit is testing true for ammonia.

@MrWestCoast - Would you just add prime to the tank and not a water change? I've been only using prime with the new water, not the entire tank. Now I'm wondering if I've been doing this whole thing wrong for a week....

[MrWestCoast]

You do want to treat the whole tank even if you only change 25% of the water.

[JillianGarcia05]

On 11/28/2023 at 10:44 AM, MrWestCoast said:

You do want to treat the whole tank even if you only change 25% of the water.

@MrWestCoast - oh snap. Well, I'll be correcting myself now. Just to clarify since I'm a newbie. 

1. Pull 25% out
2. Put in new treated water
3. Treat the tank with prime? or would this step go before #2

I really appreciate your help and patience while I get a better understanding!

[MrWestCoast]

Yup, steps 1, 2 and 3 are correct. Some people add enough prime to treat the amount of water they take out while it's filling back up, and then hit the tank with more prime for the volume of entire tank after it's fully filled. I feel like that's a waste, especially in smaller tanks where it only takes a few minutes to fill the tank. On large tanks that take a while to fill up, I can see it being a good reason to use prime while filling the tank and again after it's fully filled, especially if your county uses Chloramines to treat your water.

Edited November 28, 2023 by MrWestCoast

[JillianGarcia05]

On 11/28/2023 at 12:13 PM, MrWestCoast said:

Yup, steps 1, 2 and 3 are correct

@MrWestCoast - Awesome. I'll do this today with my water change. So that might explain why I haven't been able to get the ammonia level to 0ppm and it's been lingering at .25ppm most days. So hopefully in the next few days, it should start to shift lower then hopefully? Not sure how long this process takes. 

[Galabar]

On 11/28/2023 at 12:22 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

@MrWestCoast - Awesome. I'll do this today with my water change. So that might explain why I haven't been able to get the ammonia level to 0ppm and it's been lingering at .25ppm most days. So hopefully in the next few days, it should start to shift lower then hopefully? Not sure how long this process takes. 

A "sterile" tank might take up to 40 days to complete the nitrogen cycle.

[JillianGarcia05]

On 11/28/2023 at 8:31 PM, Galabar said:

A "sterile" tank might take up to 40 days to complete the nitrogen cycle.

What would qualify as a sterile tank? 0ppm for ammonia and nitrates appearing?

I'm still doing the daily water changes with prime and getting readings of .25ppm in the tank for ammonia. I just did another post to see if anyone knows of the API fresh water master kit does give false postives with prime. If so, can I move onto the next phase of stopping water changes and adding the Seachem sability into the tank for 7-10 days to get nitrogen cycle going. 
 

[JettsPapa]

On 11/30/2023 at 1:42 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

What would qualify as a sterile tank? 0ppm for ammonia and nitrates appearing?

I'm still doing the daily water changes with prime and getting readings of .25ppm in the tank for ammonia. I just did another post to see if anyone knows of the API fresh water master kit does give false postives with prime. If so, can I move onto the next phase of stopping water changes and adding the Seachem sability into the tank for 7-10 days to get nitrogen cycle going. 
 

It's my understanding that 0.25 ppm is within the margin of error.  As long as it isn't showing any higher I wouldn't worry about it too much.