Betta hiding and looks like has a swollen right eye

[JillianGarcia05]

Hi all,

Apologies in advance for the long post but I'm in need of help and insight:

Back in September, I got a female betta (Augustine) and have been trying to make sure to give her the best aquarium possible. I made sure to cycle it a full 24 hours before putting her in. Three weeks ago did my first partial tank change (~25%) and vacuumed the gravel. However, two weeks after the first tank change, algae started to grow. So once a week I've been doing a partial tank change along with measuring all the levels (Ie PH balance, nitrate, ect).

Yesterday, the algae nearly covered most of the bottom layer of the gravel and I did my weekly partial water change/gravel vacuuming earlier this week. So I decided to only pull all the fake plants out and give them a good rinse/air dry and also scoop out some excess gravel - no partial water change at all, which I think was my mistake.

However, this morning my betta has been acting weird. She's been hiding in her log and only comes to swim around the tank for a couple of laps. Also, one of her eyes looks a little swollen but not like what I've seen for pop-eye issues.

She usually is very excitable, she's been like that since day one. Swims up and says hi, curiously watching me while I work (her tank is by my desk). So I'm worried I made her sick from last night's algae clean....

One of my friends who had aquariums years ago said I probably stressed her out and that's why she's hiding. So I'm trying to leave her alone and not mess with anything.

Any ideas or help would be appreciated. Thanks!

In case people ask, her tank is a 5 gal tank, no tank mates at all - just her. I use the test strips but ordered a better kit today that others had mentioned in subreddit forums.

 

[JE47]

If you could give us your water parameters next time you test that would be great. The nitrogen cycle takes longer than 24 hrs. but considering you have had the tank setup since September it should be cycled I can't say that for sure unless you share the water parameters.

[JillianGarcia05]

Hi JE47. I just ordered a new testing kit that also tells me the anomia levels vs the strips I've been using. Once it comes in tomorrow, I'll come back in and give the results. 🙂

[JE47]

Sounds good, I hope we are able to help. I will tag @Colu in case he has any input. Also for next time I would post this kind of topic in the diseases section.

[JillianGarcia05]

Hi @JE47 - Sorry for the delay by a day, I got the test kit last night and did a reading. 

Here's what it said yesterday:

pH: 7.6 
Ammonia: 2.0 ppm
NO2: 0 ppm
NO3: 0 ppm

Based on this, the ammonia is way too high (should be zero), and alose the NO3 readings indicated my tank hasn't cycled. I think I may have crashed it? 

From some YouTube videos I watched, since her ammonia levels are hight, I did a 30% water change and added some stress guard. 

Today's reading:

pH: Between 7.2-7.6
Ammonia: 1.0ppm
NO2: 0ppm
NO3: 0ppm

My plan is to repeat the partial tank change again tonight (and for a few days) and remove a fake plant she's been aggressively attacking this morning (I'm assuming it's been more times). But the ends are sharp and I'm wondering if she poked herself in the eye with it. The plant in question is the one in the photo above. 

I know the ammonia levels should be zero, but I'm also wondering what else I can do to help get the tank back to where it should be. Or other steps to take. Am I going in the right direction?

There's a lot to learn and I feel like such a newbie and horrible fish mom. 

Thanks, everyone!

Edited November 22, 2023 by JillianGarcia05

[Guest]

@JillianGarcia05, Don't beat yourself up about it, you're still learning! I would say do a big water change (25-50 percent), and re-read and see if that does the trick, if ammonia is still persistent, do another change but not as big as the last, then re-read and see if it worked. I'm gonna tag @Chick-In-Of-TheSea and see if they have some advice to give. Hopefully, I helped! As for the swollen eye, however, I would take a guess as to a very minor case of Pop-eye but its a hesitant guess and I wouldn't say it is confirmed. 

Oh, and about the fake plant, those are bad for fish like betta as they can tear fins or injure themselves on the edges. If you don't have the time for live plants and still want artificial, try cloth ones instead of those plastic-y ones.

[JillianGarcia05]

Hi @Kaiju

Thank you for the information! I'll definitely do the 50% water change tonight and do all the additives I've done (prime, stabilizer, and stress guard). I'm also using this time to do a better job vacuuming the gravel and will remove the fake, pokey plant she keeps charging at when she's out of her log. 

Is there anything I can do to help with the minor case of pop-eye? If it is that. 

Many thanks!

Edit: I also have been keeping the overhead light off too. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by JillianGarcia05

[Guest]

@JillianGarcia05, again, I'd hold off on the whole pop-eye assumption but if it is so, I'm seeing 90 percent changes and replacement water every day for curing that. Also might I ask, do you have a filter and how often are you running it? If it's a cartridge filter how often are you changing it? That could be why ammonia is so high.

[JillianGarcia05]

@Kaiju - Okay, I'll just keep up on the daily water changes and see how that goes. 

And yes, I do have a filter and it's in the back of the tank and runs 24/7. It's a cartridge filter and I just replaced it about 3 1/2 weeks ago. I read that you're supposed to replace them once a month but maybe I'm wrong? 

[Guest]

@JillianGarcia05, no, you're right, I would just guess that would've been a contribution, but best of luck to you!

[JillianGarcia05]

@Kaiju Okay, that's good to know. It said on the instructions to rinse it under cold water prior to putting it in. 

If I can pick your brain, once I get the ammonia levels to zero. Should I start to adding real plants into to help keep those lowered?

[JE47]

@JillianGarcia05 Okay I agree with Kaiju keep doing daily 50% water changes to keep those ammonia levels down. Keep treating your water with the stuff you are treating with and that should definitely help.

Replaceable cartridges are not the best because even though beneficial bacteria live on all the surfaces in the aquarium most live in the filter media which if you replace every month you are restarting the cycle all over again. PLEASE do not be to upset about this though you are learning and this is part of the process plus I have had replaceable cartridges before to and did not realize what I was doing either.

For pop-eye I would wait until you get the ammonia more under control to fully diagnose that as the problem if you could send some more pictures that would be helpful.

Live Plants help keep nitrate in check they are nice but can be a little more of an investment and you could easily pick up some silk plants from Petsmart or Petco which don't require maintenance. 

Sorry for the length of this response but I hopefully tackled all of your questions. Please do not hesitate to tag me and ask any further questions. I am on the forum fairly often so I should be able to see and respond quickly.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 11/22/2023 at 4:19 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

Based on this, the ammonia is way too high (should be zero), and alose the NO3 readings indicated my tank hasn't cycled

On 11/20/2023 at 4:10 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

I made sure to cycle it a full 24 hours before putting her in

Hi @JillianGarcia05 and welcome to the forum!  Your intuition about the tank not cycling is correct. Normally it takes a few weeks to cycle a tank (fishless cycle). You are now in a fish-in cycle, and the algae you see (I’m assuming it’s brown/dusty) is called diatoms. That is a good sign that means the cycle is underway. From this point, you will need to keep your fish safe from ammonia and nitrite. Those are the 2 things to watch.

Daily routine:

Water test ammonia, nitrite, nitrate 

Water change 25% using Prime

The water change will dilute ammonia, and any that remains will be detoxified by the Prime. You WILL still get an ammonia (or nitrite) reading even with the Prime. That’s ok. It didn’t go away; it was made safe. The detoxifying effects of Prime last about a day, and that’s why you’ll need to stay on top of this routine. Once you start reading nitrate, and 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, your cycle is complete. 🔥 HOT TIP: live plants EAT ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate (in that order of preference). Add those if you can!

Your fish’s eye may have been injured. You can help the fish by adding Indian almond leaves to the water as well as a level 1 salt dose (1 Tbsp per 3 gallon). Using aquarium salt (not marine salt) dissolve it in a cup of tank water first, then slowly pour it into your tank. https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/aquarium-salt-for-sick-fish.  Salt is a broad-spectrum treatment and so are the leaves, so if you haven’t pinpointed the exact diagnosis, that’s ok.

Once you get your leaves into the water, I would recommend pulling out the plastic plants to prevent further injury and either replace with silk as @Kaiju suggested, or live plants. Plastic plants are usually no issue.. except with bettas.

Here are 2 videos that I find very helpful for your situation.

 

 

This filter video shows what you can do to improve your filter. As @JE47 pointed out, changing a cartridge could restart your cycle. The dirty truth of it is, the filter manufacturers would like to continue to make profit, so they lead customers to believe that regular cartridge replacements are the best thing to do. That’s not the best thing in the interest of your fish’s or tank’s health.

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[AllFishNoBrakes]

Agreed that you should continue testing and doing 50% water changes. If the ammonia is at 1ppm, and you do a 50% water change, that would bring it down to .5ppm. Prime also locks up ammonia for 24 hours, so the water changes and Prime can help you get through this. 
 

Once the ammonia is gone there is every possibility that you have a nitrite spike. Same thing, 50% water changes until that is gone. 
 

Agreed that you should not replace the cartridge. Beneficial bacteria lives on that, and replacing the cartridge will continue to crash your cycle. Instead, get some sponge you can put in there. Once the sponge is in there, you can clean it in a bucket with tank water during water changes and you won’t have to replace the sponge for many years. 
 

Keep testing, water change as necessary, always use Prime with those water changes, and “hot rod” your filter with a sponge and you’ll be through this in no time. 
 

If you run into trouble, feel free to ask any questions you might have here on the forum. It’s a super friendly group of people with a lot of knowledge and experience that want to help people succeed with their tanks. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 11/22/2023 at 6:55 PM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

Instead, get some sponge you can put in there. Once the sponge is in there, you can clean it in a bucket with tank water during water changes and you won’t have to replace the sponge for many years. 
 

Keep testing, water change as necessary, always use Prime with those water changes, and “hot rod” your filter with a sponge and you’ll be through this in no time. 

To add to this suggestion, 

I would recommend getting the cycle resolved first so things don’t get weird again. LOL

Then later you can work on the filter media, but you’ll want to do that when you have some bottled bacteria on hand. You’ll want to ensure that there are always beneficial bacteria on your filter media to consume the harmful ammonia and nitrite. I like Fritz Zyme 7, but there is one that is stronger (more beneficial bacteria) and is made especially for new tanks: it is called Fritz Turbo Start. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[JillianGarcia05]

Hi @AllFishNoBrakes, @Chick-In-Of-TheSea and @JE47

Thank you SO much for your helpful tips and tricks! I really feel overwhelmingly blessed with all the replies (and I'm sure Augustine my betta does too). 

I'll work on removing the plastic plants and replacing them with silk and the catappa leaves.

On 11/22/2023 at 3:52 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Daily routine:

Water test ammonia, nitrite, nitrate 

Water change 25% using Prime

The water change will dilute ammonia, and any that remains will be detoxified by the Prime. You WILL still get an ammonia (or nitrite) reading even with the Prime. That’s ok. It didn’t go away; it was made safe. The detoxifying effects of Prime last about a day, and that’s why you’ll need to stay on top of this routine. Once you start reading nitrate, and 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, your cycle is complete. 🔥 HOT TIP: live plants EAT ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate (in that order of preference). Add those if you can!

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea So should I still use the Seachem stability and stress guard too during this process? Or is there a point I should stop? 

Just making sure. Also, what's a "safe" ammonia level to see during this fish-in-tank cycle?

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 11/22/2023 at 7:19 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

Hi @AllFishNoBrakes, @Chick-In-Of-TheSea and @JE47

Thank you SO much for your helpful tips and tricks! I really feel overwhelmingly blessed with all the replies (and I'm sure Augustine my betta does too). 

I'll work on removing the plastic plants and replacing them with silk and the catappa leaves.

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea So should I still use the Seachem stability and stress guard too during this process? Or is there a point I should stop? 

Just making sure. Also, what's a "safe" ammonia level to see during this fish-in-tank cycle?

I don’t have experience with those products in particular, and cannot advise on that. Looks like stability is bacteria (like Fritz Zyme 7) and Stress Guard stimulates slime coat (like Stress Coat).  Salt will do the same thing: stimulate slime coat. If you use salt, no need for Stress Guard.

Safe ammonia is zero. Any amount of ammonia is toxic, unless it is “locked up” with Prime. Remember the lock-up effect only lasts a day.

One thing I can suggest though, is to add extra air. The more products in the tank, the more air the fish will require. Even dechlorinator reduces dissolved oxygen levels in the tank.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[JillianGarcia05]

On 11/22/2023 at 4:26 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Safe ammonia is zero. Any amount of ammonia is toxic, unless it is “locked up” with Prime. Remember the lock-up effect only lasts a day.

One thing I can suggest though, is to add extra air. The more products in the tank, the more air the fish will require. Even dechlorinator reduces dissolved oxygen levels in the tank.

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea

Thank you so much again for your advice. I bought a small air stone to put in my tank since it's only five gallons along with silk plants. 

Today's tank readings are the following:

pH; 7.2-7.6 (the color was between the two)
Ammonia: .25 ppm (a significant drop)
NO2: 0
NO3: 0

so it looks like with the ammonia I'm heading in the right direction. I know you mentioned that ammonia and some traces of nitrite will be present (since the tank needs to be cycled) what would an ammonia level look like at the lower amount? Would it be the 25 ppm?

She is still hiding in her log in the bottom of the tank but all the plastic plants that she was attacking have been removed. However, will come out now and then and eat some food. Also got her a betta log (floating). To give her something else to hide in and put a catappa leave in there too. 

Many thanks for your help and happy holidays to you and your family!

I noticed that she seems to get stressed out over environmental change. Based on your experience, should I hold off on putting the silk plants in until she starts to feel better? Just don't want to keep stressing her out, the tank changes have been doing that.

Edited November 23, 2023 by JillianGarcia05

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 11/23/2023 at 3:23 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

what would an ammonia level look like at the lower amount? Would it be the 25 ppm?

Your ultimate goal is to get to zero. If you keep getting anything above that, water change 25% with Prime and test again the next day. After the ammonia goes away you’ll do the same thing with any nitrite readings. Anything above zero, water change & test next day.

On 11/23/2023 at 3:23 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

I noticed that she seems to get stressed out over environmental change. Based on your experience, should I hold off on putting the silk plants in until she starts to feel better? Just don't want to keep stressing her out, the tank changes have been doing that.

Yes, that is ok. Just follow her cues. She probably feels vulnerable right now. Nothing is a rush other than keeping the water safe for her through testing and maintenance.

It is really great that she is coming out to eat. 

On 11/23/2023 at 3:23 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

Also got her a betta log (floating)

Bettas love those!!

On 11/23/2023 at 3:23 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

happy holidays to you and your family!

Happy holidays to you as well!

Edited November 23, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea