Stand questions

[2GreenThumbs]

Hey fish nerds! I’m new to the forum, already made my first post. I just got ahold of an old 125 gallon tank and the stand that came with it. It was a pretty good deal. This thing is about 30 years old and it still holds water but the stand does have a bit of damage. I think the water damage is pretty minimal and I’m planning on painting it all black to make it water resistant long term. There were 2 of the beams that came loose while moving and a few more are a little rickety. The plan is to screw all those back in with some good construction screws and just tighten it up all around. Here’s the problem. This thing is definitively under my par for a tank this big so I wanna run some supports. I’ll attach a couple pictures and follow with another post with even more pics in the morning. Please tell me your verdict on if this is a good salvageable stand. Also the black marks are where there are beams missing or where I’m planning on adding so far. 

 

[TheSwissAquarist]

It looks like a pretty salvageable stand if you add some more struts like you were planning. 

[2GreenThumbs]

Hey thank you guys I was planning on doing plywood across the back but didn’t think about it increasing rigidity. I’ll be working on it sometime this or next week and I’ll keep you posted. I’m planning to put the 55 gallon sump/ refugium in the bottom of that stand. I’m gonna reinforce the plywood in the bottom too and I’ll never have it more than 3/4 filled. Do you think in the grand scheme that’ll be too much weight to add?

[2GreenThumbs]

On 10/17/2023 at 3:36 PM, Pepere said:

The chief attribute of plywood is to prevent racking forces.  I would however but it up firmly under your back beam as currently it is relying almost solely on fasteners to hold up the weight.  I would have all of the joints of the supports glued and screwed…

Yessir I’m planning to screw and glue everything I can. At least everything that will come off. The bottom plywood is only supported by some small wood blocks in back. I’m gonna run some cross beams underneath right where the sides of the 55 gallon will sit and maybe one in the middle. I’m thinking that should be enough. Those will be in contact with the floor too so I’m thinking it won’t hurt the bottom line.

 

[nabokovfan87]

The struts will help even out the loading, then the question goes back towards what @Pepere was mentioning about how that stress is loaded.

 

On 10/16/2023 at 11:28 PM, 2GreenThumbs said:

On this bottom left corner, and in other photos the whole bottom side there, it looks a lot like mold / rot damage.  There's some pieces of wood that might be better replaces as opposed to painted over.  I would also consider the size of the wood you're using and look up the strength values of something like what you have currently as opposed to 2x4's and other sizes.

The final thing there is to try to keep it setup so that you can get a decent sump underneath/inside the cabinet.  Depending on placement this might mean adding a removable panel on the side to allow you to slide in the tank.  This also means that the base of the stand needs to be able to support a certain amount of weight as well.  I would assume each of those posts meets with a leg in the stand at the base.

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

While we are on the topic of stands.. whyyyyyyyy are so many made out of fiberboard (aka manufactured wood, particleboard, MDF)?!  It doesn’t make sense to have that type of material around water. 🫤

[2GreenThumbs]

On 10/17/2023 at 6:10 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

The struts will help even out the loading, then the question goes back towards what @Pepere was mentioning about how that stress is loaded.

 

On this bottom left corner, and in other photos the whole bottom side there, it looks a lot like mold / rot damage.  There's some pieces of wood that might be better replaces as opposed to painted over.  I would also consider the size of the wood you're using and look up the strength values of something like what you have currently as opposed to 2x4's and other sizes.

The final thing there is to try to keep it setup so that you can get a decent sump underneath/inside the cabinet.  Depending on placement this might mean adding a removable panel on the side to allow you to slide in the tank.  This also means that the base of the stand needs to be able to support a certain amount of weight as well.  I would assume each of those posts meets with a leg in the stand at the base.

 

Yes there is a small amount of rot on the one side ( bottom in the picture) and yes the struts meet and staple into a foot or leg that runs the base of the stand. I’m assuming these are a little more structural than what I can get in the same size. The struts are about 1inch by 3 inch. If rebuilding is what I have to do I’ll just do it. Tell me your best opinion man. However this tank was setup for a long time as saltwater with tons of rock in it and was fine. I just wanna reuse it if I can. If you guys think it’s bad I’ll rebuild.

On 10/17/2023 at 6:13 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

While we are on the topic of stands.. whyyyyyyyy are so many made out of fiberboard (aka manufactured wood, particleboard, MDF)?!  It doesn’t make sense to have that type of material around water. 🫤

Yeah I wish they had made this thing with all real wood not just half. And screws instead of staples!!

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by 2GreenThumbs

[2GreenThumbs]

So I found a good video by inventory king! He basically strips out those small corner wood pieces that run from top to bottom replace it with 2x4 that makes contact with the ground and builds more of a skeleton from there. This combined with screwing and gluing the old stand itself back together and that piece of plywood on back and it’s seeming sturdy enough I’ll try to link video.https://youtu.be/4MsRa3tRhUM?si=wy6YyNu_Z7-xaitj

Please let me know if you think this is a pretty good upgrade. I’ll also be putting back all the supports that came off during moving too.

Edited October 18, 2023 by 2GreenThumbs

[TheSwissAquarist]

On 10/18/2023 at 2:51 PM, 2GreenThumbs said:

So I found a good video by inventory king! He basically strips out those small corner wood pieces that run from top to bottom replace it with 2x4 that makes contact with the ground and builds more of a skeleton from there. This combined with screwing and gluing the old stand itself back together and that piece of plywood on back and it’s seeming sturdy enough I’ll try to link video.https://youtu.be/4MsRa3tRhUM?si=wy6YyNu_Z7-xaitj

Please let me know if you think this is a pretty good upgrade. I’ll also be putting back all the supports that came off during moving too.

The King of DIY has done a decent video on this subject (although arguably he has much bigger tanks) 

 

[2GreenThumbs]

On 10/18/2023 at 9:08 AM, TheSwissAquarist said:

The King of DIY has done a decent video on this subject (although arguably he has much bigger tanks) 

 

If I was gonna build one from scratch I’d use this. I’ve watched most of the videos on YouTube for building them. There are way less for reinforcing/ refurbishing. I do like that king of diy tells gives you a bit of an equation for how many supports you need. I’m not fully against the idea of building one from scratch but I like the idea of getting to use the shell of this one and save a bit of money. I’m gonna start tearing into it today. If I hit roadblocks I’ll be making a stand very similar to joeys!

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/17/2023 at 8:05 PM, 2GreenThumbs said:

I’m assuming these are a little more structural than what I can get in the same size. The struts are about 1inch by 3 inch. If rebuilding is what I have to do I’ll just do it. Tell me your best opinion man. However this tank was setup for a long time as saltwater with tons of rock in it and was fine. I just wanna reuse it if I can. If you guys think it’s bad I’ll rebuild.

It's tough to say. There's an expression/visual example in engineering, if you try to structurally fix a noodle by adding supports everywhere and balancing the load, it's still a noodle. The weakest point is always the weakest point. 

Let's say the struts and everything are fine, but the top surface has "some issues" and it's weakened. Let's project that out even further to say that it's thin and not strong enough.  Keep in mind, most times you build things to handle 2-3x the strength, minimum just because you don't want to overstress the materials. One small bump or nudge, maybe that causes that rot section to fail. It's so hard to say.

Let's say the top surface is fine, but as you're working you have the struts fixed in some sections. Maybe that causes the others to fail if you have materials with different strengths (loads up/down) or crossbeams (loads left to right).

I think your best source for information is going to be @Pepere and he's got a wood stand build that's amazing and awesome. My best advice is to look into structural lumbar and try to research the actual load and strength characteristics.  Maybe you make a skeleton and plop this on as an external shell. Then you have piece of mind for decades.

[2GreenThumbs]

On 10/18/2023 at 1:53 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

It's tough to say. There's an expression/visual example in engineering, if you try to structurally fix a noodle by adding supports everywhere and balancing the load, it's still a noodle. The weakest point is always the weakest point. 

Let's say the struts and everything are fine, but the top surface has "some issues" and it's weakened. Let's project that out even further to say that it's thin and not strong enough.  Keep in mind, most times you build things to handle 2-3x the strength, minimum just because you don't want to overstress the materials. One small bump or nudge, maybe that causes that rot section to fail. It's so hard to say.

Let's say the top surface is fine, but as you're working you have the struts fixed in some sections. Maybe that causes the others to fail if you have materials with different strengths (loads up/down) or crossbeams (loads left to right).

I think your best source for information is going to be @Pepere and he's got a wood stand build that's amazing and awesome. My best advice is to look into structural lumbar and try to research the actual load and strength characteristics.  Maybe you make a skeleton and plop this on as an external shell. Then you have piece of mind for decades.

I’ve definitely heard of such a noodle. Hilarious example to think about though. This is the new goal. Today I pulled out those tiny corner supports. I measured for my new legs and cross beams. I’ll still but my plywood up against that back horizontal beam and use all the supports that are there but I’m essentially building a skeleton inside of this stand. Every corner supported straight to the ground on 2x4 and a nice frame up top for the tanks rim to sit on. The plywood and trim board on this stand is in pretty good shape still actually. I’m sure it’ll give it some type of structure but now I won’t be counting on it! I think this is the most reasonable. Save me some money, peace of mind, and it’s kinda more green I guess. I have a building buddy too so I’ll have him give it a look first. He knows way more than me about loads and engineering supports for them.

Edited October 18, 2023 by 2GreenThumbs

[2GreenThumbs]

Ok boys. I’m building a stand from scratch! Ran into a little problem and with all things considered I’ll just do the safe thing. Thanks for all the help. I’ll take those plans From @Pepere if anyone knows where to find them.