NTD/Fungal Infection & Popeye?

[Robsnr318]

Ok, so I've had 6 Neon Tetras since the beginning of January (all bought together from a big box pet store). Around March I noticed one of them starting to get the whitish "saddle" marks but was otherwise acting and eating perfectly normally. At the time, none of the others had any white on them.  Over the following few weeks, more of them showing white, but the original hasn't had much more progression.  Now about 3-4 of the 6 look like the one in the two pictures here.  None have died, they all eat, swim, and school well - though some do go off on their own, and I usually have at least 1-2 hiding under a big cave/rock thing.  Towards the end of March, I did a full week of Maracyn and Ich-X in hopes of treating a potential fungal infection - but there was no improvement in any of them.  I also used the meds to treat a Green Fire Tetra with pretty severe Popeye (thinking it was an injury) - that also showed no improvement with meds but he's been acting/eating normally all this time too.  I have a betta, 3 black kuhli loaches, 4 white cloud minnows, 1 otocinclus (her friends died), 3 green fire tetras, 6 neon tetras, and a lone survivor red cherry shrimp in this community tank - along with a mystery snail and some ramshorns.  Nobody else is showing any signs of anything (betta has a little bloat, but daphnia help that).  I have my parameters below.  So the question is, does this look like Neon Tetra Disease or some type of fungal infection? I have the med trio and a few other things I can use to try and treat them, but should I bother if they aren't dying? I also added the oto(s) after the last course of meds, and I have some concerns about medicating the tank since I read they are sensitive to some. Help?

Temperature: 78

pH: 6.8

Ammonia/Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 50 (it's water change day, but also heavily planted tank)

GH: 300

KH: 80

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Could be columnaris for the saddle issue. Take a look here  at the columnaris link.

The third post is how I treated. I had to go outside of the med trio for this one as those meds were not effective on this. @Colu

Edited June 5, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/5/2023 at 11:53 AM, Robsnr318 said:

should I bother if they aren't dying? I

If it turns out to be columnaris, yes. It’s like a flesh eating bacteria for fish. It will continue to eat away at them 

[Robsnr318]

On 6/5/2023 at 2:11 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

If it turns out to be columnaris, yes. It’s like a flesh eating bacteria for fish. It will continue to eat away at them 

Would it be columnaris if it's been this long without noticeably affecting how the fish swim/eat and not spread to any other species in the tank? I'm definitely open to trying the meds you did, just want to make sure I'm treating the right thing. Thanks!

[Colu]

On 6/5/2023 at 7:22 PM, Robsnr318 said:

Would it be columnaris if it's been this long without noticeably affecting how the fish swim/eat and not spread to any other species in the tank? I'm definitely open to trying the meds you did, just want to make sure I'm treating the right thing. Thanks!

It does look like columnaris the fact they have had these white patches for around two months something else could be going on I would have expected columnaris to kill your with in 24-7 days from the onset of these white patches depending on the stain of columnaris  it does look like a  bacterial infection and not a fungal infections what I would do is a course of kanaplex and jungal fungus clear fizz tabs containing nitrofurazone following this treatment plan it's a very effective treatment for more severe bacterial infections such as columnaris or aeromonas I would remove your mystery snails during treatment 

[Robsnr318]

On 6/5/2023 at 2:51 PM, Colu said:

It does look like columnaris the fact they have had these white patches for around two months something else could be going on I would have expected columnaris to kill your with in 24-7 days from the onset of these white patches depending on the stain of columnaris  it does look like a  bacterial infection and not a fungal infections what I would do is a course of kanaplex and jungal fungus clear fizz tabs containing nitrofurazone following this treatment plan it's a very effective treatment for more severe bacterial infections such as columnaris or aeromonas I would remove your mystery snails during treatment 

Ok, do you happen to know if this course of treatment is safe for the kuhli loaches the otocinclus? I know I'd have to remove the cherry shrimp, mystery snail and any ramshorns I want to keep, but not sure about those other sensitive fish.  I'd move just the neons to a hospital tank, but if the tank water is "infected" they'd be reintroduced as soon as I put them back in, right?

I'm also just confused about how it would be bacterial or fungal without spreading to any other species whatsoever. I can understand all the neons getting it since they were all bought together - if it's Neon Tetra Disease, makes sense that they'd have it but not spread to others in the tank since they haven't died and been eaten. I feel like any bacterial/fungal infection would've spread to at least one other tankmate species or have killed at least 1 neon by now. This is all so confusing!

[Colu]

On 6/5/2023 at 8:00 PM, Robsnr318 said:

Ok, do you happen to know if this course of treatment is safe for the kuhli loaches the otocinclus? I know I'd have to remove the cherry shrimp, mystery snail and any ramshorns I want to keep, but not sure about those other sensitive fish.  I'd move just the neons to a hospital tank, but if the tank water is "infected" they'd be reintroduced as soon as I put them back in, right?

I'm also just confused about how it would be bacterial or fungal without spreading to any other species whatsoever. I can understand all the neons getting it since they were all bought together - if it's Neon Tetra Disease, makes sense that they'd have it but not spread to others in the tank since they haven't died and been eaten. I feel like any bacterial/fungal infection would've spread to at least one other tankmate species or have killed at least 1 neon by now. This is all so confusing!

This treatment is safe to use with your Otto's and loach it's also possible you have neon tetra disease with the the amount of time they have had these symptoms if it were neon tetra disease I would quarantine all the fish in this tank as neon tetra disease can infect Rasboras danios barbs guppies angelfish goldfish other species of Tetras such as rummy nose and cardinal Tetras it spread when a fish dies and other fish feed on it's body ingesting to many pleistophora for the fish's immune system to handle if that's the case there's no treatment currently available other then humanly euthanizing any fish that are showing symptoms with clove oil before they die in the tank infecting more fish you have two options wait and see because there's a good chance it's neon tetra disease treatment won't have any effect or you can treat following the treatment plan I recommended to see if they improve just in case something else is going on 

Edited June 5, 2023 by Colu

[Robsnr318]

On 6/5/2023 at 3:47 PM, Colu said:

This treatment is safe to use with your Otto's and loach it's also possible you have neon tetra disease with the the amount of time they have had these symptoms if it were neon tetra disease I would quarantine all the fish in this tank as neon tetra disease can infect Rasboras danios barbs guppies angelfish goldfish other species of Tetras such as rummy nose and cardinal Tetras it spread when a fish dies and other fish feed on it's body ingesting to many pleistophora for the fish's immune system to handle if that's the case there's no treatment currently available other then humanly euthanizing any fish that are showing symptoms with clove oil before they die in the tank infecting more fish you have two options wait and see because there's a good chance it's neon tetra disease treatment won't have any effect or you can treat following the treatment plan I recommended to see if they improve 

Ok. So if I remove the neons, what would I need to do and/or how long should I wait to add fish to this tank? No neons have died, so no others have eaten any of the infected fish.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Dr @Colu you’re the best. Thanks again for helping out with fish illness 

[Colu]

On 6/5/2023 at 8:50 PM, Robsnr318 said:

Ok. So if I remove the neons, what would I need to do and/or how long should I wait to add fish to this tank? No neons have died, so no others have eaten any of the infected fish.

Neon Tetra disease can lay dormant for months it's only when a period of stress weakens there immune system that they start to show symptoms I would be very hesitant to add new fish to this tank  for aleast a year without any fish showing symptoms 

[Robsnr318]

Ok thanks!