Help! Med Trio and new White Fuzz

[MidnightBel]

Hello! I am new to this forum so I'm sorry if I forget to leave anything out. I'm panicking a bit. I have a 10g quarantine tank at the moment with no filter, an airstone, 77-78 temp, bare bottom, and have not been feeding my fish nor has he been pooping. Water is made up of 6 gallons of Top Fin precondition water, 4 gallons of filtered conditioned tap water. Dosed water conditioner and beneficial bacteria when setting up and let it sit for 24 hours before starting meds. Oh there isn't a heater in the tank, I keep the room temp very high to make sure the water temp is perfect. This is because every heater I've attempted to buy hasn't actually reached temps it is suppose to. Used several digital temp gauges to check and a glass aquarium thermometer. My pet stores have limited stock and won't restock their heaters either even though several has large cracks under some of the glass ones. I went to 2 stores of one pet chain, 3 of a different one, and the only local fish store in my area. No one has it. Worried to order online because I found over 4 that have been cracked either on glass or giant marks underneath it. Don't know if they were used and put back since packaging would easily allow for that or if they were just mishandled. Stores won't restock the fluval M 50 either which is the one I need for my tank (fluval flex 9g with alterations done to lower flow for long tailed betta. Will add sponge filter if excess filtration needed, but it seems to be doing fine and is established) or something similar to fit it behind. I've tried a P25 too since overall temps in house wouldn't require heater to work hard as a temp solution, but it only ever got to room temp never advertised temp (it was 2 to 3 degrees less than advertised). Suggestions on this are welcome.

DAY 1: of meds trio there was just some particles at bottom from medicine and blue tint water at the start which eventually went away.  pH 7.2, Ammonia, 0.05-0.1ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 1ppm.

DAY 2: at the end of the day the water started to look cloudy, but because one of the meds says it does this, I didn't panic or pay any mind. pH 6.8, Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 0ppm.

DAY 3: Start of day was just clouded water and within the time I was not present in my room so about 16 hours, and then falling asleep right away for a nap then waking up few hours later so lets say 18 hours, the entire tank is covered in this white fuzz. It looks similar to what happens when I boil spiderwood drift wood for my tank and put it in. It is everywhere covering every inch of the bare bottom tank, on decorations, even on temp guage. pH 7.0-7.2 so more like 7.1, Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 0ppm.

Water parameters tests done with api liquid test kit several times over, the same one I use for my turtle tank and planted aquarium that has been accurate thus far. I follow instructions very carefully. 

Is this normal? Do I need to do a water change, rinse off decorations, siphon out the fuzz or do I leave it to do its thing. If i have to do water change do I try to figure out the dose for the powder packets for the amount of water change? He is still acting like his normal, sweet, active self, rushing to the glass when he sees me and trying to get my attention and ask for food. More on back story of situation below.

 

I have a cycled tank ready for this guy, but decided to quarantine my new betta fish with med trio after noticing some issues with digestion, bloat, and even a bit of swim bladder (happend twice). Initially was planning to quarantine for two weeks only and monitor behavior so wasn't going to have filter, but instead do daily water changes. His cycled tank's filter is inside/built in so it wouldnt work in a different tank. The bloat happened even though I was barely feeding him (2 pellets daily, anything more and it would take days for swelling to go down). Anyhow during the non med time I had to do 4g water changes every other day because my ammonia starts at 0.25 straight from tap and goes up to 0.5 in 2 days. They treat my water with chloramines sadly. This increase was with low feeding, removing excess food, and taking out any poop that happened within less than 24 hours. Normally in a cycled tank I don't need to worry about the ammonia levels because they are gone within 2 days or less. Was dosing with prime every other day and stability daily in this 2 week quarantine tank. Fish was acting normal and after figuring out to feed him no more than 2 hikari pellets a day, or 3 to 4 bug bites, etc he seemed fine in regards to bloat although pooping still was on light side. He hates brine shrimp (tried countless times), but likes blood worms so I did try out frozen food too which didn't cause bloat, however he can't just live off of bloodworms even though frozen seems to not cause bloat. He also likes the extreme krill flakes which isn't causing bloat although I've only fed him a single flake per feeding because I'm scared to overfeed. I have a sponge filter that has only started seeding in my main cycled tank for a week and a half now so decided to do the meds without a filter and do water changes since meds will kill BB, but because of high ammonia from my tap I used 6 gallons of top fin preconditioned water and 4 gallons of my own from a family members house that had a filter to help lower ammonia before starting med treatment. This was to get ammonia down to 0 since I couldn't do water changes for the entire week. All the water tests were good and waited a day before starting treatment. Plan to use seeded filter for after this med treatment week for the one week break and paraclense second dose. Sorry for the long paragraphs I'm just really worried about my baby and want to do right by him. He is the sweetest dude ever. He had some fin clamping issues when I got him, but figured I would see if that was just how he was or monitor for it spreading. It spread so even more reason for med trio treatment. Any help and advice is so greatly appreciated. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/3/2022 at 10:16 PM, MidnightBel said:

I have a 10g quarantine tank at the moment with no filter, an airstone, 77-78 temp, bare bottom, and have not been feeding my fish nor has he been pooping.

Is there anything moving the water around?

On 4/3/2022 at 10:16 PM, MidnightBel said:

This is because every heater I've attempted to buy hasn't actually reached temps it is suppose to. Used several digital temp gauges to check and a glass aquarium thermometer. My pet stores have limited stock and won't restock their heaters either even though several has large cracks under some of the glass ones. I went to 2 stores of one pet chain, 3 of a different one, and the only local fish store in my area. No one has it. Worried to order online because I found over 4 that have been cracked either on glass or giant marks underneath it.

I think your room temp is fine and you wont need a heater right now (it all depends on the fish you're talking about specifically).

As for the situation you're going through, I've totally been there. I would recommend finding one of the high quality ones online from a pet supply store (not amazon) or buying one from the co-op. They do have them available and would be more than sufficient for the tank you have.

If you're having issues with something arriving quickly, potentially you can find a betta heater locally instead of a traditional heater. It's a small tank so the smaller heater will keep the fish in the safe zone for it's QT timeframe.

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/3/2022 at 10:16 PM, MidnightBel said:

Is this normal? Do I need to do a water change, rinse off decorations, siphon out the fuzz or do I leave it to do its thing. If i have to do water change do I try to figure out the dose for the powder packets for the amount of water change? He is still acting like his normal, sweet, active self, rushing to the glass when he sees me and trying to get my attention and ask for food. More on back story of situation below.

I'm going to go ahead and say the white fuzz is common in tanks without water movement or just poor water quality. It's something I've noticed with my siblings where the tank isn't cycled, they didn't use dechlorinator, and it's a situation where the filtration either isn't there or just doesn't exist.

While the fish might not need the airstone or filter, the tank itself does to host the bacteria. they grow based on high oxygenation levels and you need the water movement to ensure the tank is functioning. For the QT process to work, get the tank functioning first.

As a note as well, reading the rest of your notes, aquarium salt may be a good thing to add to your betta toolkit for treating illness. It's a good thing to have for them when they run into some of the issues you're mentioning.

For the QT method the co-op uses, I would reference this. You would add the meds, wait a week, and then do your water change.  With your situation, I would clean the tank, get the filtration going, and then go ahead and give the fish a week to de-stress, and then go ahead and medicate the tank using the co-op method.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/quarantine-tank

[MidnightBel]

On 4/4/2022 at 1:37 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Is there anything moving the water around?

I think your room temp is fine and you wont need a heater right now (it all depends on the fish you're talking about specifically).

As for the situation you're going through, I've totally been there. I would recommend finding one of the high quality ones online from a pet supply store (not amazon) or buying one from the co-op. They do have them available and would be more than sufficient for the tank you have.

If you're having issues with something arriving quickly, potentially you can find a betta heater locally instead of a traditional heater. It's a small tank so the smaller heater will keep the fish in the safe zone for it's QT timeframe.

 

For the water moving around I have the airstone at the highest it can go. I can tell there is water movement to at least some degree because the white fuzz or algae or whatever it is is dancing from it more so on the left side where the floating log is. It still dances on the right side just to a much lesser degree. Betta also has to use more effort when swimming near that side, not to the point where it seems too strong for him though. I tried locally for heater and it was the same exact one aquarium co-op sells, it just happened to be the only they had and was broken. Had to drive 30 mins away just to get my hands on it too. I'll probably order online, but do you think a 6g heater is good enough for 9-10g tank long term? Or should I just go with the one 10-15g. I don't want to keep room temp at 80 degrees forever to keep water temperature warm enough, and eventually room temp will be 70 degrees so need a strong enough, but safe heater.

As soon as the med week is over I plan to do a major water change, incorporate daily doses of beneficial bacteria again, and add the filter that has been seeding for 2 weeks at that point. This will be were he has his 1 week break in between. After his second dose of meds, and the week that takes place is over, he will be going into his cycled tank.

For the water movement, do I need more movement? Would it be better to put the less than 2 week seeded filter in now even though some of the meds said it would mess up beneficial bacteria? I have more sponge filters on the way too. And is it safe to dose with Seachem stability during this time (med treatment)? I didn't do so initially because I was worried it would interfere or impact treatment.

 

 

 

[MidnightBel]

On 4/4/2022 at 1:45 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I'm going to go ahead and say the white fuzz is common in tanks without water movement or just poor water quality. It's something I've noticed with my siblings where the tank isn't cycled, they didn't use dechlorinator, and it's a situation where the filtration either isn't there or just doesn't exist.

While the fish might not need the airstone or filter, the tank itself does to host the bacteria. they grow based on high oxygenation levels and you need the water movement to ensure the tank is functioning. For the QT process to work, get the tank functioning first.

As a note as well, reading the rest of your notes, aquarium salt may be a good thing to add to your betta toolkit for treating illness. It's a good thing to have for them when they run into some of the issues you're mentioning.

For the QT method the co-op uses, I would reference this. You would add the meds, wait a week, and then do your water change.  With your situation, I would clean the tank, get the filtration going, and then go ahead and give the fish a week to de-stress, and then go ahead and medicate the tank using the co-op method.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/quarantine-tank

I did use dechlorinator, and have been testing daily for water parameters so I don't think water quality is an issue at the moment either. The tank should be getting enough oxygen too from the airstone and I thought was enough movement, but I could add more with sponge filter if necessary it just won't have much bacteria built up on it. I was dosing stability daily before, and had this tank up for 2 weeks prior to meds, just ammonia being 0.5ppm scared me if I couldn't do water changes for med duration, so I used completely different water than my tap I had thus far resetting cycle. Was doing 40% water changes every other day. I did not have the issue of this white fuzz before this new water or med treatment though. Should I start dosing bacteria again to make up for lack of cycle and filtration or would there be no point due to meds?

And are you saying to just stop treatment now, clean everything out and try again in a week? He has 4 more days left of treatment including today since it is 2am (following aquarium co-op guidelines for it). Would I be able to instead use something to wipe off fuzz, siphon it out to manage it for the few days or would this be unsafe for my fish? Then add filter for added flow and a bit of beneficial bacteria in tank.

I have aquarium salt from aquarium co-op just waiting for initial med trio meds to be done so I can do treatments with that. Don't want to put him through too much stress. How long should I wait before doing the salts? Would doing it during the one week break be too stressful? Again sorry for all the questions.

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/3/2022 at 11:03 PM, MidnightBel said:

For the water moving around I have the airstone at the highest it can go. I can tell there is water movement to at least some degree because the white fuzz or algae or whatever it is is dancing from it more so on the left side where the floating log is.

I saw it on my third of fourth view of the airstone. I was confused because the post said you didn't have anything. 

Basically you just need time. adding some bacteria from the bottle would help, but keep in mind you're also running meds that are anti-bacterial (as well as the salt in some way if you dose that).

I would suggest moving the airstone as low as you can (it is weighted so you dont need to move the suction cup, but that will help.

 

 

On 4/3/2022 at 11:03 PM, MidnightBel said:

I'll probably order online, but do you think a 6g heater is good enough for 9-10g tank long term?

I am willing to bet the betta will be "fine" with anything you put in the tank. What is the air temp outside? That's going to really determine what size heater you have. In my situation, I was running a 20G heater in a 10G because the temp was 55-60 degrees in the house and that was just to get the tank to 70 degrees.  If it's warm in your location, the heater is there to make sure the tank doesn't dip too low and it's a safety valve, not a requirement. 

 

On 4/3/2022 at 11:03 PM, MidnightBel said:

As soon as the med week is over I plan to do a major water change, incorporate daily doses of beneficial bacteria again, and add the filter that has been seeding for 2 weeks at that point.

perfect. I would add to that, dose some salt as well just to help the betta out. It will give the bacteria a bit of a fuss, but it will still be able to cycle the tank.

When meds are done, following the water change:
1. Add a filter if you can. In that filter add some carbon so you can remove the meds. Add salt. Add your bacteria for the next 7 days.
2. Add some sort of a media bag if you can with some media (or sponge filter) so there is something for the bacteria to thrive on. If you have a tank already cycled, pull the media from there and add new media to the tank you "borrowed" from.

Give the fish about a week to recover, monitor, and then it's up to you when you want to add them to their tank.

On 4/3/2022 at 11:03 PM, MidnightBel said:

For the water movement, do I need more movement? Would it be better to put the less than 2 week seeded filter in now even though some of the meds said it would mess up beneficial bacteria? I have more sponge filters on the way too. And is it safe to dose with Seachem stability during this time (med treatment)?

I think you're fine, just need to lower the airstone if you can.

Adding the filter is totally fine and recommended.

You should not need stability, it will not help this situation. we've had a few posts on the forums of people dosing stability and doing their water changes with prime, just be careful and note that you need to wait a certain amount of time after dosing each one (about an hour, 24 is better) to reduce stress. You should not have any ammonia/nitrite/nitrate issues, if you do, then that's a different conversation and not a situation where stability is the sole solution

[MidnightBel]

On 4/4/2022 at 2:24 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I saw it on my third of fourth view of the airstone. I was confused because the post said you didn't have anything. 

Basically you just need time. adding some bacteria from the bottle would help, but keep in mind you're also running meds that are anti-bacterial (as well as the salt in some way if you dose that).

I would suggest moving the airstone as low as you can (it is weighted so you dont need to move the suction cup, but that will help.

 

 

I am willing to bet the betta will be "fine" with anything you put in the tank. What is the air temp outside? That's going to really determine what size heater you have. In my situation, I was running a 20G heater in a 10G because the temp was 55-60 degrees in the house and that was just to get the tank to 70 degrees.  If it's warm in your location, the heater is there to make sure the tank doesn't dip too low and it's a safety valve, not a requirement. 

 

perfect. I would add to that, dose some salt as well just to help the betta out. It will give the bacteria a bit of a fuss, but it will still be able to cycle the tank.

When meds are done, following the water change:
1. Add a filter if you can. In that filter add some carbon so you can remove the meds. Add salt. Add your bacteria for the next 7 days.
2. Add some sort of a media bag if you can with some media (or sponge filter) so there is something for the bacteria to thrive on. If you have a tank already cycled, pull the media from there and add new media to the tank you "borrowed" from.

Give the fish about a week to recover, monitor, and then it's up to you when you want to add them to their tank.

Sorry my phrasing was a bit weird. I meant to say I only didn't have a filter, but I had an airstone and the other things. Good to know adding bacteria is safe. Right now I just have a floating sponge in there for beneficial bacteria to latch onto if there was any that survived. I don't think I can add carbon to the aquarium co-op sponge filter I have for the quarantine tank, so would just a media bag with carbon in it be fine even though it wouldn't be attached to the filter? Like with crushed coral when you want pH up and KH? I also have a loose sponge in my established tank where the sponge filter is being seeded for putting in after the one week period is up. This is just for more surface area of beneficial bacteria to be built up in established and introduced into QT. Plan to take 4g of water from established tank when I do major water change and 2g of treated tap after the meds are done for the week. Should I be changing out the full 10g or 8g instead of just 6g? Thank you so much for your response, taking the time to answer my questions and helping put my mind at ease. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/3/2022 at 11:40 PM, MidnightBel said:

Good to know adding bacteria is safe. Right now I just have a floating sponge in there for beneficial bacteria to latch onto if there was any that survived

that's perfect!

 

On 4/3/2022 at 11:40 PM, MidnightBel said:

I don't think I can add carbon to the aquarium co-op sponge filter I have for the quarantine tank, so would just a media bag with carbon in it be fine even though it wouldn't be attached to the filter? Like with crushed coral when you want pH up and KH?

I literally just set the carbon / media bag on the sponge itself to make sure it receives some flow. not on top of the uplift tube, but on the sponge itself.

 

On 4/3/2022 at 11:40 PM, MidnightBel said:

Plan to take 4g of water from established tank when I do major water change and 2g of treated tap after the meds are done for the week. Should I be changing out the full 10g or 8g instead of just 6g?

I think the meds specify or the co-op guide, let me double check before I say anything.

I would do a 50% water change initially, then 25% every subsequent water change.

On 4/3/2022 at 11:40 PM, MidnightBel said:

Thank you so much for your response, taking the time to answer my questions and helping put my mind at ease. 

Glad to help, I know it's stressful, especially when you just want to talk it through with someone.

[MidnightBel]

On 4/4/2022 at 2:44 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I think the meds specify or the co-op guide, let me double check before I say anything.

I would do a 50% water change initially, then 25% every subsequent water change.

Glad to help, I know it's stressful, especially when you just want to talk it through with someone.

I think the guide says 30%, but didn't know if I should do more because of the white fuzz. Maybe that is me just over panicking again.😅

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/3/2022 at 11:48 PM, MidnightBel said:

I think the guide says 30%, but didn't know if I should do more because of the white fuzz. Maybe that is me just over panicking again.

just vacuum the tank until you're happy with it, then stop when you're done. that white stuff isn't anything to worry about and a sponge filter will handle it extremely well. If you need to, before you do your water change, go ahead and use your hand or some tweezers or paper towel and scrub any surfaces with the white fuzz all over it to get it suspended in the water and no longer attached to the decorations or the cords and stuff.

 

It's pretty much ALWAYS on someones tank if they run an airline.