Guppy Lethargy & Losses

[Bjorn]

API Reagents

• NH3 -- 0.0 ppm
• NO2 -- 0.0 ppm
• NO3 -- 10 < x < 20 ppm
• dGH -- 9
• dKH -- 5
• pH   -- 6.8 ≤ x ≤ 7.6 (low & high ends of CO2 cycle)

CHEMetrics Dissolved Oxygen Kit

• Dissolved oxygen -- 6 < x < 8 ppm

Dennerle Co2 QuickTest

• light blue or (-) during peak saturation

 

Highlights

• 4-5 of guppys out of a population of about 18 juveniles, give or take, at surface, lethargic, not as interested in food as other portion of population. Not breathing rapidly or gasping for air but still angled toward surface like in photo.
• Gills look normal.
• Past 2 months I've had losses ranging from 0-2 per week.

Extra Details

• Original trio died 4-5 months after purchase (that was 2-3 months ago when this started happening)
• Father died first with curved tail (euthinized with clove oil)
• Mothers died after showing same signs as the children.
• Most deaths are discovered in the morning but a few I've seen lose the ability to swim and are carried by the gentle current of the HOB. They occasionally get short bursts of weak energy before going limp again. I net and euthanize whenever I catch it.
•  Other guppies seem completely healthy. They're active, enthusiastic eaters, and make use of the whole tank. I can't keep track of individual fish because they mostly look the same to me but it seems like the lethargic ones eventually die and then some of the healthier ones become lethargic too. But that is just just my speculation; again, I can't tell them apart.
• Their tank mates (Cardinal Tetras, Betta, and Otocinclus) are all healthy. Only guppies are affected

I'm at loss why they keep dying or why some are lethargic. I can't even say for sure that it's related. Maybe they're genetically weak and that's why I am getting deaths? Maybe a disease slipped passed the medication trio that doesn't have any physical signs? Maybe my nitrates were high (20 < x < 40 ppm) for too long and they got sick from that before I started doing larger water changes? Is there a Dr. House for guppies that can give me a diagnosis?

Edit 

• temp -- 78f
• Tank size -- 37 gallons
• Inhabitants: ~18 guppy juveniles, 4 Cardinal Tetras, 1 half-moon betta, 1 otocinclus

Edited March 17, 2022 by Bjorn

[Colu]

 It's possible pH fluctuations are affecting them as guppies like a pH of 7.5 the daily fluctuations could be stressing them out affecting their immune system  also bent spine's can be caused by to low a kH what I would do is add an extra air stone stone add some crushed coral to increase your kH 

[Bjorn]

@Colu I adjusted my CO2 so the tank peaks at a pH of 7.2 and I'm changing my RO/Tap mixture so that the dKH of new water will be 8. I'm seeing less lethargy but there's still a couple of my favorites that are seemingly sick.

Do you think adding some antibiotics like Maracyn would help them recover or would that be unhelpful?

[Colu]

You could do a course of maracyn in food it's more effective In food as maracyn only treats external infection unless add to food just in case something else is going on he's how I dose maracyn in food I use a quarter of a packet of maracyn one table spoon of pellets one scoop of seachems focus 1 cap of garlic guard a few drops of water mix well feed twice a day for 7 days store any leftover medicated food in the fridge @Bjorn

Edited March 22, 2022 by Colu

[Bjorn]

@Colu Thank you, I'll try that.

[Bjorn]

I've done a bit more research and I think they could be infected with camallanus red worms. I don't see any worms protruding from heir anus but some of the guppies do seem to be thin almost as if they're "wasting" away. I ordered some Levamisole which should arrive in 3-5 days. Hopefully a few treatments of that in addition to adjusting the pH and minerals will heal their disease.

[Colu]

On 3/23/2022 at 7:58 AM, Bjorn said:

I've done a bit more research and I think they could be infected with camallanus red worms. I don't see any worms protruding from heir anus but some of the guppies do seem to be thin almost as if they're "wasting" away. I ordered some Levamisole which should arrive in 3-5 days. Hopefully a few treatments of that in addition to adjusting the pH and minerals will heal their disease.

Hopefully that will sort them out 

[IAmTheElliot]

Following, as I'm having similar issues. Started a tank up again about 2 months ago. 55 gallon, stocked it with 10 cardinal tetras, 10 fancy guppies, and a half dozen plants. I live in WA and with RIDICULOUSLY low hardness and sub-7 pH, unfortunately lost 7 of the 10 guppies. I've since gotten the tank to cycle completely.

Yesterday I added 10 additional, new guppies that all looked healthy at ACO. Current parameters after doing ~40% WC this evening, adding a little Seachem Equilibrium, few tsp of baking soda, and 5 squirts of Easy Green:

Parameters:

• Temp: 76*
• ph: 7.0
• Nitrites: 0
• Nitrates: 10-20
• GH: 75-100
• KH: 80-120

I noticed, about the time of completing my WC, two guppies very inactive at the top of the water, just under the surface, tail fins clamped but no labored breathing. I cranked up the airstone as much as I could to increase surface agitation and turned the light off, so I'm hoping these active, awesome little fish get better overnight and I don't have a repeat of last time despite fixing what I thought were all the issues.

Edit: Also, how do guppies do with phosphates? I've been having a pretty major Diatom bloom, so I bought a test kit and found 5-10ppm phosphates a few days ago. I scrubbed all the algae off the glass, and in my WC this evening got as much off the plants & substrate as I could.

Edited March 24, 2022 by IAmTheElliot

[IAmTheElliot]

Well, great. I actually had two guppies acting funny last night, but one of them seemed to get better when I dosed 4 additional tsp of equilibrium. Woke up this morning to find one on the substrate, passed away, that turned out to be the I thought was doing okay. The one who was really suffering last night is still alive, but was found nose down in a plant. I've currently scooped him into a net and left the net in the tank, at the top of the water in powerhead flow, to hopefully give him a rest to get better. I'm not holding my breath, unfortunately.

[Bjorn]

It's been 5 weeks, my guppies are now all looking healthy. Thanks to some insight from @Colu I think I have an idea of what was going on and how I was able to remedy it.

While diffusing CO2 I was only focused making sure the dissolved concentration was safe. What I didn't consider is the rate which the pH was shifting was also a hazard. I know now, while my KH was fine for guppies in non-CO2 injected aquariums, it was too low for my setup. What made things worse, I had a shorter light cycle to minimize algae growth which meant I had a higher rate of CO2 injection. I didn't realize it was a bad sign then, but they would sometimes flick against plants or hardscape -- I thought they were just being playful but apparently they can lose muscle control (among other negative impacts on their immune system and organs) when pH shifts too quickly.

The daily stress likely caused the weakest guppies to succumb to diseases like internal parasites. Then it would slowly wear away the more healthy ones as well.

I've since reduced my CO2 to the point where I no longer see signs of stress. I've also done two rounds of levamisole treatments three weeks apart paired with vacuum cleaning and mild salt dosing to try and eliminate internal parasites. I've also ordered crushed coral to place in my HOB so I can slowly add buffer before attempting to carefully increase my CO2 again.

Everyone is now fat and active. The females are looking like they're about to drop their first broods within the next couple weeks. While it's unfortunate my first and second generation had to suffer because of my lack of experience, I hope from now on the colony will thrive.