Water Silk (Spirogyra) Solved?

[JoeQ]

I've been dealing with this problem for awhile. At first I thought it was some kind of algea (staghorn/ hair algea) or some debris getting into the tank (dog dandruff, dog hair, my hair, ect) but now im wondering if it is a parasite/tapeworm. The issue is long, clear, hair like filiments growing overnight or shorter clear hairs growing from the leaves of plants. Ive included pictures from this morning with red arrows pointing to the hairs, along with a picture from yesterday before trimming a mass amount of shorter hairs. I've tried excel on these hairs with no luck, turning down my light to the point of lower leaves falling off, setting a siesta mid day to cut down on light time and adjusting flow. At this point im at a loss as what to do and don't want to medicate on a 'hunch' that its a parasite/tapeworm. Can anyone please advise that has delt with this specific issue! Thanks in advance for any insight you can give me on this issue.

Edited February 28 by JoeQ
Solved?

[JoeQ]

Additional though, it can also be a fungas

[RadMax8]

It’s hard to see in the photos, but is the filament straight or does it have zigzags? Are there any nodes on the filament? If so it may be bladderwort, which is a carnivorous plant which you can just pull out. They can be tricky to get rid of, but not impossible.

I wouldn’t put my money on a parasite, I don’t think they can survive outside of a host very long. 

Good luck!

[JoeQ]

Here is a better cropped and zoomed in picture of a hair that grew over night. I believe it is spider web algea, which seems to be a member of the hair algea family. I don't use eazy iron, but I do have Mexican Pottery Clay in my substrate... So maybe I added too much and have too much iron in my water. 

[JoeQ]

In case anyone has the same issue, my best guess is this it's water silk. I have found several other threads on this but no answers. Here is a snippet of an article I found that describes the problem perfectly: 

Water Silk (Spirogyra)

It forms, long and strong threads with a smooth touch. It is very decorative under microscope, the thread is a green spiral stretching for the whole length. It's appearance indicates a previous Ammonia spike that was caused by a fish carcass or by disturbing the gravel or substrate. Once it is present it is difficult to eliminate because the needs of these algae are very similar to plants. A blackout and liquid carbon cure will usually help. Algae eaters do not like it in particular, but will eat it if there is no other algae in the aquarium.

Source: https://greenaqua.hu/en/alga-tajekoztato

My airstone is under the gravel to hold in place and defuse the bubbles some, which I believe was the source. I've since turned it off. 

[JoeQ]

Welp, finally! The bane of my planted tank existence (and the reason I joined this forum) has been solved!!! Regardless of the name, this straggley filament was more closely related to blanket weed and triggered by a Nitrate/Phosphate imbalance. Pictured here (above) it is in its infantcy. In later stages it will turn green, along with forming numerous long green hairs that resemble slime when removed from the water.

It was originally erraticated in my smaller tanks (on a hunch), where it was easily triggered by using ANY commercial ferts. It finally just disappeared when I decided to remove Phosphates from my fertilizer mix. Figuring food alone would provide more than enough Phosphate(s) in those tanks.

As for my bigger tank it was harder to trigger unless I overdosed ferts. Last night (again on a hunch) and having numerous long translucent hairs (wish I took pictures) I massively overdosed my tank, but I cut my standard EI dose with a Phosphate free EI mix which lowered my Nitrate/phosphate ratio. To my surprise presto!!! No translucent hairs!!!

Disclaimer: This post was made partly for bragging rights, partly to help anyone dealing with this tough algae to figure out, and partly to mark the occasion! 😁.

Edited January 26 by JoeQ

[JoeQ]

Upon closer inspection, premature celebration........ 😢

[Samuel]

I'm struggling with the same issues in one of my display tanks...

Any advice?

[JoeQ]

On 2/5/2024 at 1:37 AM, Samuel said:

I'm struggling with the same issues in one of my display tanks...

Any advice?

Try switching to a phosphate free fertilizer! It might cure the problem seemingly over night! 

[Pepere]

On 2/5/2024 at 5:30 AM, JoeQ said:

Try switching to a phosphate free fertilizer! It might cure the problem seemingly over night! 

Or not…

 

I have very low phosphates in my tap water.  I had  it before going pressure co2.

 

I am running another low tech tank trying to “balance” it without co2.

It has shown up in the tank along with staghorn algae.  Other than CO2 injection, I have not figured out how to keep it at bay….  But I havent given up ….yet….

 

 

[JoeQ]

On 2/5/2024 at 6:08 AM, Pepere said:

Or not…

 

I have very low phosphates in my tap water.  I had  it before going pressure co2.

 

I am running another low tech tank trying to “balance” it without co2.

It has shown up in the tank along with staghorn algae.  Other than CO2 injection, I have not figured out how to keep it at bay….  But I havent given up ….yet….

 

 

Staghorn was one of the easier algaes (for me) to solve, it was flow /water quality related.

In a co2 injected tank  often times algae can be solved by adding nutrients because plants consume soo much faster. 

In a non co2 the algae free formula seems to be removing nutrients and getting plants to consume faster. 

Edited February 5 by JoeQ

[JoeQ]

On 2/5/2024 at 6:08 AM, Pepere said:

It has shown up in the tank along with staghorn algae.  Other than CO2 injection, I have not figured out how to keep it at bay….  But I havent given up ….yet….

Also there is another "version" of this caused by over dosing iron. Might be something to look into with no co2 & low phosphates 

[Pepere]

On 2/5/2024 at 6:27 AM, JoeQ said:

Staghorn was one of the easier algaes (for me) to solve, it was flow /water quality related.

In a co2 injected tank  often times algae can be solved by adding nutrients because plants consume soo much faster. 

In a non co2 the algae free formula seems to be removing nutrients and getting plants to consume faster. 

I am doing 50% water changes weekly.    It is in a 17 gallon spherical  fish bowl.  I am running an undergravel filter using an easy flow kit adapted to the ugf tube.

 

being a relatively small sphere, increasing flow is problematic.. It would be hard to find a powerhead that wouldnt whip the water around.  Possibly another sponge filter with easy flow kit, but being a sphere it doesnt have much footprint space open to it.

 

I am going to try running leaner on ferts.  Not injecting co2, the co2 levels are a definite limiting nutrient..,

[JoeQ]

@Peperebeing a bowl i can see your point. Maybe rearranging your scape will help. You also arent likely to find a powerhead small enough. The best I found for my 10g were skimmers that I could defuse/redirect the small(er) flow from. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07K2LXNXD?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

 

[JoeQ]

On 2/5/2024 at 7:40 AM, Pepere said:

I am going to try running leaner on ferts.  Not injecting co2, the co2 levels are a definite limiting nutrient

Funny, coming from a non co2 aquarium before entering the world of co2, I consider it more of a growth acceleratior and less of it as an "essential nutrient" 

Edited February 5 by JoeQ

[Pepere]

Clearly it is a limiting nutrient, essential for photosynthesis to occur.  Throttle its availability and you throttle the plants ability to grow and ability to take up nutrients.

considering plant matter comprises roughly 40-50% carbon… it has to come from somewhere….

 

There is no question that injecting CO2 makes healthy vibrant plant growth much easier, and vibrant healthy plants defend themselves well against algae….

Edited February 5 by Pepere

[JoeQ]

On 2/5/2024 at 8:36 AM, Pepere said:

Clearly it is a limiting nutrient, essential for photosynthesis to occur.  Throttle its availability and you throttle the plants ability to grow and ability to take up nutrients.

Ill agree, but I think you miss my point. From a non co2 injection user perspective, it's a nutrient provided by the atmosphere, gas exchange, bubbler(s) , surface agitation & desolved organic material. Flow becomes more important (to distribute water colum ferts & co2 which is almost a forgotten factor). You need to have your eco system on point and all of your plants working well. Instead of encourageing a few plants to absorb more nutrients by twisting a nob to balance your tank. 

[JoeQ]

Intentionally triggered by a slightly high(er) dose of phosphates! 

[JoeQ]

This is another "version" of the same algae,  but I believe its trigger is a slight overdose of Iron. 

Note the difference(s)

 

 

[Pepere]

On 2/5/2024 at 9:05 AM, JoeQ said:

Ill agree, but I think you miss my point. From a non co2 injection user perspective, it's a nutrient provided by the atmosphere, gas exchange, bubbler(s) , surface agitation & desolved organic material. Flow becomes more important (to distribute water colum ferts & co2 which is almost a forgotten factor). You need to have your eco system on point and all of your plants working well. Instead of encourageing a few plants to absorb more nutrients by twisting a nob to balance your tank. 

Well, the tank makes it all a lot easier….

 

doing it without the tank is much more of a challenge…

[JoeQ]

On 2/7/2024 at 9:42 AM, Pepere said:

Well, the tank makes it all a lot easier….

 

doing it without the tank is much more of a challenge…

Correct!  Also the bowl adds a level of difficulty. In the end it'll another skill under your belt!

[NanoFishNut]

I see that this is a very old thread that has been revived willingly, so I won't try to belabor this too much but:

Why do you think it's Spirogyra?

Without microscopy, the odds of accurately identifying Spirogyra are very low. Many species of Oedogonium (Order: Oedogoniales), Mougeotia (Order: Zygnematales), Klebsormidium (Order: Klebsormidiales), some Rhizoclonium (Order: Cladophorales), etc. look identical from a macroscopic perspective. We tend to wildly underestimate the diversity of very small things.

And just as any species of plant or fish may have a shared or wildly divergent ecological niche, the same is true of algaes. Even identifying to the genus level is no guarantee that this species or homotypic synonym is going to react the same as another, let alone species from different Orders, Classes, and Phyla. In fact, your algae looks like it's not even mucilagenous, which may point more to Cladophorales.

One thing we can say with some confidence is that filamentous algaes require relatively high levels of cellulose (carbon) to form their filaments. A common form of carbon that is more metabolicly advantageous to algaes than to higher order plants is organic carbon. Now, when CO₂ levels are very high (and everything else is good), plants can suppress the algae growth even in the presence of higher levels of organic carbon through whatever their algae suppression mechanism is (many have been proposed, but none have been proven). But, when CO₂ levels are not high enough (either due to poorly optimized CO₂ injection, or in a non-CO₂ injected tank) or some other factor is inhibiting plant-based algae suppression (biomass not high enough, some nutrient not high enough, etc), then the presence of moderate levels of organic carbon can be a common cause of filamentous algaes. This includes red algaes, but also includes many filamentous green algaes.

So, the first thing I do when I see filamentous algaes in a non-CO₂ injected tank is clean. Clean the filters, clean the substrate, clean the plants, remove any melting leaves, do a water change after every cleaning.

Then I ensure that plants are getting what they need in terms of nutrients. Low PO₄ has always caused more issues for me than high PO₄. The theory that high PO₄ causes algae has been falsified many times over in many different types of tanks, with or without CO₂ injection. That's my main complaint with Easy Green (and 90% of all commercial ferts): not enough PO₄. In fact, my number one symptom of mild PO₄ deficiency is filamentous green algae. As PO₄ deficiency get more extreme, I usually see the filamentous algaes fade to be replaced with GSA (which is primarily from the Coleochaete genus... it's much less diverse and as a result, it's much more predictable).

Spirogyra sp.

Another Spirogyra sp.

Mougeotia sp.

Klebsormidium

Oedogonium

We've been struggling to pin down an ID on this one, but the best guess so far is Rhizoclonium. Oddly unbranched though

Edited February 12 by NanoFishNut
Added image labels

[JoeQ]

On 2/12/2024 at 3:15 PM, NanoFishNut said:

Why do you think it's Spirogyra?

Without microscopy, the odds of accurately identifying Spirogyra are very low.

Spirogrya may not be the 100% microscopic & botanically correct classification (don't let perfection be the enemy of 'improvement') it is still a better description/search term than the overly broad 'filamentous algae'

I decided to label it this because of it's texture & growth characteristics.

I've also spent a good amount of time focusing my attention towards filter cleaning, substrate cleaning, removing dead organics, flow, plant husbandry,  added injected co2 which had no impact. Weekly 50% water changes also had no impact

It wasn't until I focused on individual nutrients (rather than using an all in one fertilizer(s), or breaking days into macro/micro days) did I realize it was phosphate & to a lesser extent iron related.

You are also correct in that high amounts and low amounts of either nutrient trigger it.

Immature blanket weed might also be a possibility since it seems to prefer to grow at the highest points available. Ideally at the surface in direct light, left untouched it will grow to form a floating algae mat.

[NanoFishNut]

On 2/13/2024 at 9:32 AM, JoeQ said:

Spirogrya may not be the 100% microscopic & botanically correct classification (don't let perfection be the enemy of 'improvement') it is still a better description/search term than the overly broad 'filamentous algae'

Unfortunately, I've dealt with some of these categorizations, and I find it's better to stick with a general physical description than to guess at the identification. Well meaning misinformation is very easily spread this way. If you want to send me a sample, I'd be happy to identify it for you. It's a service I offer for free to everyone, because I enjoy microscopy as a hobby. Just let me know if you want to, since this one has been a longstanding nemesis. Algae ships quite well.

[JoeQ]

I'll probably skip on the microscopic identification, but I appreciate the offer. As for shipping I'm not even sure I'd be shipping anything! Imagine trying to capture  1 strand  of a spider web & packaging it. That's just too intricate for me nor do I have the interest. It does seem to progress through your Spirogyra microscopic pictures, at first it is translucent with the noted zig zag growth, if left alone it will then devolve green coloring and finally into thick green slime when removed from the tank. As for causes phosphates Is definitely a partial factor, but another part could be my ramp up time on my light. Today I dosed an amount that usually triggers it, but an hour into my light cycle with no Spirogyra.

As for spreading 'miss information' I'm sure the incoherent ramblings from an anonymous dumb dumb on the interwebs (IE ME) is not going to shatter the world of truth & microbiology!!!