KittenFishMom

Oh another good source for design ideas is scholarly journals. You can read where an experiments design worked and where it didn't work as well. It don't have to be a fish journal. Any journal that talks about experiment design can give you good examples. And you don't need to do all the subjects are the same time. If you are limited on space, you can do sets of say 6 subjects and replicate the study 5 times.

I've done a good bit of research support over the years. Often for grad students and post docs, and professors. The tanks need to be kept the same manner. Things like light or sound or temp can not differ. Water parms need to be monitored closely and kept the same, but I would not allow the water from one tank to mix with the water in the other tank because of hormones and scents and such. Maybe all tanks should be new, so no prior scents are present? They don't need to be glass rectangular aquariums, they might be jars or plastic containers. These are not display tanks, just identical tanks. The feeding needs to be identical. It is very nice to have more than 2 subjects. If one dies, you have to start all over again. If you could get close to 30 or more subjects, you statistical proof is much stronger. 30+ in each group is even better. Everything needs labels and ID numbers. Doing double blind won't be easy because a tank of only females looks different than a tank with a male and a female., Maybe the person feeding the fish should not be able to see the fish? You could have dark covers with feeding holes. If the identical females spend a day with a male then one female remains with that male and the other female joins one virgin female, then both "schools" of guppies are the same size. This would also allow for smaller tanks. Which to leads to more subjects. You would probably want to set this set up a few times to see how the tank set up etc work for the guppies. If the set up doesn't work for 2 or 4 subjects it is cheaper to find out before you make 30 or 60 setups. Constantly tracking lots of data fields is always helpful for statistical analysis. Sometime things you assume would have no effect can turn out to have a major effect. Things you can not control, but can record include weather conditions and pressure changes or moon phase. I could go on and on, but I will let you tell me if you want more of this sort of detail. I love research ! You might want a sprig of identical artificial floating plant material in each tank for fry to hide in.

leeches and a lot of other things swim. Planaria are flat worms that glide like snails and slugs. Don't smush planaria, they can regenerate a new being from parts. You cut a planaria into 5 part, you get 5 whole planaria. Something that looks like a tad pole could be fry. Did she have guppies? The big eyes on the tiny born guppies can look a bit like tadpoles. Keep the plants in a separate jar until you know for sure what you are dealing with. The "reverse respiration" works like a charm, and seltzer and club soda are cheap compared to treating fish.

The moss came from bits from several tanks over the last year. Every time I bought plants online, I bought more java moss. It has sat in an open shallow pan in my living room for months. I would bet the flies or what ever they are are local. I have no idea if they are part of the problem or a red herring, so to speak. I'm guessing the best thing to do is to stop feeding that tank until the cloudiness clears up. I started writing this at 9:00pm, I got it posted, and then started fighting with my cell phone and Gimp to get the photos scaled and posted. Then I started the water change and tried to get better photos of the adults. It is after midnight now. It will be well after 1:00am before the water change is finished. I don't think I was born to be a fish keeper.

@nabokovfan87 The adult "flies" that emerged after I cleaned the glass are above. Below are some attempts to photo the larva on the glass. I think they are also on the hardscape too. It took for ever to get the one cocoon marked. Sorry, but I don't know this software at all. Java moss with cocoons: more larva more larva hardscape seems to have black/brown cocoons too:

look on the ACO site for they instructions for hatching shrimp eggs. I'll see if I can find it before I post this.... 2 liters water, 2 tablespoons salt https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/faqs/brine-shrimp-hatching-recipe and there is this brine shrimp salt, but I think you should be getting some good results with plain rock salt or Kosher salt. https://www.aquariumcoop.com/products/easy-brine-shrimp-salt

Here are new adults on the inside of the tank wall, above the water, being attracted to the light outside the tank. They are white looking flies, walking on the glass.

I'll try to get photos.

Last night as I was shutting things down for the night. I noticed some kind of worm or lava in open ended "cocoons" that kept wiggling (I think to keep water flowing through the "cocoons"). Every once in a while, they would stick their heads and about half their body out and look like they were feeding on the Java moss pressed against the wall of the tank. I also saw what looked like tiny mosquito larva swimming to the surface. These were much smaller than mosquitoes or the blood worms. I have been having a very hard time with what tank. I think it is a bacteria bloom from over feeding. The ammonia and nitrites are both zero. But you can hardly see through the water in the tank. A week ago, I saw tiny cory fry wiggling through the water, but haven't seen any in 2 days. I don't know if they aren't there, or if the water is too cloudy. Tonight when I lifted the top to feed the corys, the tank smelled trashy, not sulfur, like at low tide. I took the lid off and the corner of the tank nearest a brink light outside the tank was covered in tiny dead flies. I wiped them out and wiped everywhere about the water line. I should taken photos first, but didn't. I think it is some kind of mig or fly that has it's larva in moist soil. I looked up white flies, but their life cycle doesn't need wet soil or standing water. I had been trying to grow the Java moss in a very shallow pan with the water level almost covering it for a few months, with plans of using it to build a moss back wall for my 55 tank. When the corys started spawning in the shrimp tank, I added the Java moss to provide lots of cover. I left the top off the tank, but will put it back before I go to bed. I'm not sure what is going on in the tank or what I should do about it. I went through info on every aquarium pest I could find, but nothing looked or sounded like this. The cloudiness might be from over feeding, or from these things. I now have 2 sponge filters and and air stone in the 10 gallon half cylinder tank. I moved the air stone to the corner where I saw these things, and the water got cloudier. It might have been food that settled in the moss, or it might be from these things. It is getting late, but I will do a 25% water change before bed. Any idea what might be going on and if these critters are helping or hurting my fish? Anyone every see anyth9ng like this before?

@ccurtis oh yes, I often feed bbs frozen so they sink for the croys. I can do the same with the adults. Thanks for the tip !

I wonder if the eggs got too hot during shipping and are swelling open, but were dead before they hit the water? I use 1 tablespoon of Instant Ocean and let it bubble in a little in less than a liter of water usually with a light on it and a thermometer in it so it doesn't get too hot. After the salt looks dissolved I add 1 to 2 scoops of ACO eggs, and use a gentle rolling boil from an air hose, no stone. I saw ACO was selling shrimp eggs salt. I was guessing it had a pH buffer and other stuff for the shrimp. Might be worth trying. Only times I had problems was when the water got too hot. I like to keep it close to 80f, but try not to go higher than that. My eggs live a a zippered bag with all the air squeezed out in the freezer.

I'm hatching baby brine shrimp and thinking about growing some of the water out into adult brine shrimp to feed my peppered corys. Do you think peppered corys will eat live adult brine shrimp, or will the shrimp just die and foul the water? I tried feeding them live scuds, but they didn't seem to interested, so I gave the scuds away. I would love to know if this worked for you. Thanks KittenFishMom

@Guppysnail and @Chick-In-Of-TheSea mine long RR was an accident to. "out of sight, out of mind". Hiding them in the dark meant I didn't see them or think about them, but I hoped the stems would grow new leaves and the melted leaves would make good fertilizer for the tank substrate. "Waste not want not" I am "a daughter of a daughter of The Depression".

I know this is a long shot, but the cold weather make my hands grumpy, so I figured I would ask.... After in being a computer wrangler for too many decades, my hands aren't what they once were. I am trying to think of a cheap easy way to clean filter sponges and such without hurting my hands or the filter media. I thought a salad spinner might do a good job. I want to leave some bio filtration in the media, but get the mulm and curd out. I was thinking dunking them in a bucket of tank water, then spinning the water out and repeating a few times might do the trick. Before I mess up a salad spinner, I thought I would ask if anyone has tried this or found a better way to clean the media.

@Cinnebuns I have a thick carpet of java moss and a lot of cholla in the tank, as well as weeks of melting hornwort leaves. (I left them in RR for 36 hours instead of 12 hours. Big mistake. Very messy.) I read that mystery snails have a short digestive track and their slime train catches some of the partially digested mulm and holds it in place for fry to eat. It said if you were not going to be able to feed your fry for a day or 2, to put some mystery snails in to provide the fry with something to eat. I wouldn't use it as real source of food, only as something to fall back on if you might be away. I was thinking it might be easier on the snail to start it in that tanks, because I had not started anyplace yet, but then thought it was more than big enough to eat the eggs before they became fry. I figured the CARE Forum would know for sure.

@Dean’s Fishroom The snails arrived in the mail today (you know, snailmail). I needed to put them someplace and the QT was just sitting there. No meds, just 5 small fish waiting to go to their new home. I put the snails there while I asked if the fish eggs would be safe with snails. The answer was "no", so the snail are out of QT and in the big tank now Thanks for your input. and warning.

@Guppysnail Thanks, that made it very clear ! I'll put the snails in the 55 tank.

I got some mystery snails and MTS that I put in my quarantine tank for the time being. I have read that mystery snails leave a nutritious slime trail everywhere they go and are great for fry tanks. I'm wondering if either type of snail are safe for eggs and fry of corys and shrimp? I have a 10 gallon tank with 3 high fin peppered corys and 30 neocaridina blue shrimp in it. The corys are spawning daily. There are eggs from different days all over the tank. The shrimp are starting to berry.(carry eggs). My guess is the snails would eat or crush eggs, but would be OK for fry. Maybe the snails would avoid eggs? I don't know? Do any of you know for sure? (including @Guppysnail, @Cinnebuns, @Chick-In-Of-TheSea, @nabokovfan87 ) Hope to hear from you soon, KittenFishMom

@nabokovfan87 I used a small slotted plant basket/pot inside a knee high nylon stocking over the end of my siphon to take the water out. The water is drizzling back in through an air hose with a flow adjuster, will probable take another hour. I put the bucket of fresh water on the corner of the tank. Next time I'll only put part of the water, and continue to fill the bucket as the level drops. Much easier on me and the tank than putting the full amount of refill water above the tank. 8-) I think we have an IV pole on wheels someplace.....

@nabokovfan87 I put the water in with a cup. I might set up a siphon with a flow adjuster. Trying to locate a new intake sponge to put on the siphon, then I will cover it with a knee high nylon stocking. I don't have a tea strainer

I haven't read the whole thread, but I recommend putting a knee high nylon stocking over your course sponges for a while. Having read the thread, it looks like a a 1 in a million chance it would happen again, but you will sleep better if you put the stocking over the filter and know it can not happen again. The fish will be bigger by the time the stocking needs cleaning and you can remove it at that point, or clean it and put it back if you feel better knowing it is there.

@Cinnebuns and @nabokovfan87 My shrimp/cory tank has some nitrites, very faint pink. I do think the cloudiness is a bacteria bloom. I think it is from over feeding, because between the spawning corys and the 30 shrimp, I really haven't gotten a good feel for how much to feed. I am also feeding some fine powder for the fry. I could do a water change, or add some "7" and/or "turbo 700". or do both. For a water change in that tank, I normally mix up 10 liters of of RO water with a scoop of Salty Shrimp GH/KH+. Then after it is well mixed change the full 10 litters (2.6 gallons) which is about 25% of the tank. If I take the eggs off the higher areas of the walls of the tank, the eggs will fall into java moss. Do you think there will be enough water flow in the moss for the eggs to survive? I've also noticed some of the new eggs seem to have been eaten, so I think the adult corys are hungry. I'm going to freeze some of the live brine shrimp so they are easier for the corys to find and eat. Let me know what you think.

@nabokovfan87 There are 3 air stone in the 10 gallon tank. I'll make some repashy for her. I have community plus and spawn and grow, but the spawn and grow has been open for a while. Maybe I should mix them.

@Cinnebuns I hope I don't miss any of your questions. I asked the shrimp seller about his water parms. He said he had run out of test strip and could not remember what they were normally. I figured $35 for 30 shrimp was a good price. so I didn't give him a hard time. If I decide to get more, I'll take him some test strips. I'm using Salty Shrimp GH/KH+ to remineralize. I have done two 10 liter water changes so far. The water is cloudy, so I might do another one tomorrow. I am very worried about accidently getting some fry. They are so hard for me to see. I only saw them because I was using a strong flashlight. I split up a large softball size (or maybe bigger) ball of java moss I had been growing and spread it around the bottom of my shrimp/cory tank. Tonight at first IO thought all the shrimp were gone, but most were in the java moss. They would pop out one place and swim a little and pop back in at another place. The female cory also seems to be hiding from the males. Every time she is swimming in open water the males rush over to try to get her to spawn. I think she is tired.

@Cinnebuns and @nabokovfan87 I saw my first super tiny corys swimming around the tank tonight. At first I thought they might be a hornwort leaf or an insect larva, they were SO SMALL. I got out a magnifying glass, and saw they were tiny tiny little cory fish!!! How long does it take to see them well? The bag thing is I found an adult scud in the shrimp/cory tank. It must have hitched a ride on my arm or a net or something. I hope there are not more scuds in there.