[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

On 9/11/2022 at 4:16 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Colton M

Just checking to see how you decided to progress?  -Roy

I’ve not had the time to work on anything yet but I did do a water change in my tanks using 25% water straight from the well and the rest from the tap after softener, seems to be a little better for the plants. I’d like to run a line still but I’m not sure if it would be best to set up the RO as I would still have to supplement with minerals. I’d like to try from the iron filter straight to the tank and possibly just stick with harder water plants, I don’t want to do high tech setups or anything but I do really like dwarf hairgrass…

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

On 9/3/2022 at 7:17 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Colton M

I'm surprised that water could run through your pipes....it's almost like liquid rocks!  lol

Seriously, yes both you carbonate hardness (dKH = 10+) and General Hardness (dGH = 10+) are high and if nothing is done it will limit you to plants that can tolerate hard water.  If this were my tank I would pick up an RO filter and try mixing your water after the iron filter 50/50 with RO water and see what the readings are (since we don't really know how high above 10 degrees the two are).  If the readings are still high with 50/50 then try 75% RO and 25% tap water.  Once a proper mix of well and RO water is chosen then because all iron is being removed an iron supplement compatible with the pH will need to be added likely along with other nutrients.  -Roy

We have an RO system here that is not hooked up, so I’ll see what I can do. 

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

@Seattle_Aquarist Here are the hardness readings before our softener or iron filter from the test strips I got, like I said before my GH and KH are both max for the scale. The water also kinda smells like eggs or something similar, not overwhelming bad though but definitely notable.

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

On 9/3/2022 at 1:08 AM, The Killer of Fish said:

The mulm never really looks good but it is good for the plants.

This is also a filter less tank with Java moss so it contributes to the amount of the mulm 

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

On 8/31/2022 at 5:54 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Colton M

That is exactly how they work, as the resin becomes saturated with calcium and magnesium the salt pellets are dissolved into a brine solution and then the resin is 'flushed' with brine removing the calcium and magnesium and replacing them with the sodium from the sodium chloride (aka salt pellets).  Then the cycle starts all over again.  Water softeners are great to help avoid clogged pipes, coffee makers, dishwashers, washing machines, hot water heaters, etc.......just not for plants. -Roy

Picked up some test strips today but as an experiment I did a large water change in one of my planted 10g tanks last week using spring water from the store (ice mountain 2.5g containers from Walmart $4.25 each) and it seems to have really helped reduce the algae and the plants are doing much better as well. Here is a photo, there is a lot of mulm but the panda corys like to play in it so I keep it there. And the picture doesn’t look great but the hair grass used to have yellow/brown tips which are all back to green now. 

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

On 8/31/2022 at 1:05 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Question for my own knowledge.  On a tank in this situation trying to operate after a water softener.  If the softener system does use salt, would the tank have issues because you're literally dosing it with salt whenever you do a WC and that would be the issue with plants?  I looked at the photos and was expecting a ton of algae, but didn't see too much.

Please excuse my ignorance for what the softener machines actually do.  I haven't used one and always lived with hard water my entire life.  I have been to other states and experienced the difference in water feel, but not used it for keeping fish or understood what is going on chemically.

I do actually get a ton of algae in all my other tanks, but for some reason the one with the majority of my fish is okay other than all the bba that blooms every time I do a water change of any size. 

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

On 8/31/2022 at 11:39 AM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @nabokovfan87

As we continue down the rabbit hole!  LOL

Water softeners cause three problems for plants, especially aquatic plants.  The softener removes the calcium (Ca) ions.  It removes the magnesium (Mg) ions.  And it replaces the Ca and Mg ions  with a lot of sodium (Na) ions.  Both the calcium and magnesium are secondary nutrients that plants require for healthy growth.  The added sodium (Na) ions have an antagonistic relationship with potassium (K) so as the amount of sodium (Na) increases the amount of potassium (K) that becomes available for plants to uptake is decreased.  So we end up with little to no calcium or magnesium and an excess of sodium that prevents the uptake of potassium.

@Jenjais correct, there is very little 'salt' (sodium chloride) in the output water from a water softener.  The sodium ions that the softener resin are attached to carbonate or sulfate ions that were originally partnered with the calcium and magnesium resulting in alkaline dissolved salts that increase the pH.  If you look at the charts below you can see the interactions of various nutrients as well as how pH effects the availability of some nutrients.  I believe you may be confusing sodium (an element) with sodium chloride (like table or rock salt).  Hope this helps! -Roy

Sounds like our softener is a little different as rather than resin beads or other media, we use salt pellets that dissolve over time, so I’m essentially dosing with a relatively large amount of salt without any other hard minerals at all. 

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

On 8/30/2022 at 11:10 PM, The Killer of Fish said:

Wow.  I am sorry you have to deal with that.  Ugh.

Not too worried about it as it’s not too crazy much, a well planted tank should keep it taken care of I think. 

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

On 8/30/2022 at 9:19 PM, Jenja said:

Definitely get a liquid gH/kH test kit - if you need to alter your water you need the most accuracy as you can get and strips are good for general range testing but not so much for exact degrees. 

I'm on a water softener too, salt based, and I don't bypass (too complicated for me, old home and I'm not very handy). For years I struggled simply because I didn't know/was never told that the softener was zeroing out my gH. Once I started using Equilibrium I finally had better success with plants and guppies (endler hybrids actually, the guppies I would try and fail with for years before the Equilibrium).

Even with addressing my gH, Vals just don't work for me. Didn't matter which tank I attempted they just don't survive in my water. This is not abnormal, some plants just don't work for me - to complicate things further some plants will work in one tank but fail in another. So it's been a trial and error process finding what works for me. Crypt wendtii have been my best plant overall, it survives and sometimes thrives in some of my tanks. Buce and java ferns both do okay for me. Guppy grass was one that almost didn't work but once it grew a bit it (and hair algae, always with the hair algae, I've come to accept this as a given lol) have my 33g a jungle that I need to prune asap. PSO did a boom then bust in one tank - I pruned too heavily when it was in the boom phase, and was forced to change lighting shortly after that so now it is almost gone. So yeah, expect to try a variety of plants, you will eventually hit some winners for your water. 

Whether you decide to go the bypass route, or if you rather stay with what is straight from the tap and adjust the gH, just be consistent in what you do - constantly chasing parameters to make a specific plant thrive likely will cause more problems in the end.

 

I’ll try to find a test kit this week, for a while I was having really good luck with my guppies and endless breeding quite a bit, I’m sure they still are but I also have Congo tetras with them now, I have kept away from crypts up to this point for whatever reason, but I’d like to try something red to add some color, but I’m not sure what will work yet. I’ll have to try some different plants and see what I can come up with! I’ll probably bypass the softener  as it removes a lot of minerals but what is the equilibrium you use? Is it a universal water treatment or something specific to your parameters? 

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

On 8/30/2022 at 9:21 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @The Killer of Fish

Well water in areas where there is farming and they use ammonium nitrate as fertilizer for the crops will show up in the well water.
 -Roy

This is exactly why I have some ammonia in my well water. 

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

On 8/30/2022 at 6:24 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @The Killer of Fish

Sorry to break this to you but iron concentration has little to nothing to do with the 'Red' coloration is plants.
 -Roy

Hi @Colton M

I much prefer the accuracy of liquid tests over test strips.  Your water doesn't seem to be that bad, what was the dKH and the dGH?
 -Roy

I don’t have tests for that like I thought I did, I’ll have to get test strips unless I can find a liquid one. 

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

On 8/30/2022 at 5:19 PM, Colton M said:

It has not been installed yet as I’m a ways from the store so I have to wait for parts, I believe the iron here would be too strong for fish unfortunately, the plants may like it a lot but it’s bad enough that the walls of our showers and toilets turn brown if we don’t have that filter, but I’d be open to trying it, I do have access to water straight from the well at the moment at least to test, now that I have a little time tonight I’m finally going to test it and post here in about an hour with results. 

pH -7.5

Ammonia -0.50ppm 

Nitrite -0ppm

Nitrate -0ppm

@The Killer of Fish@Seattle_Aquarist

I thought I had test strips for hardness but unfortunately I do not, the photo messes with the colors a bit so I added the readings above. This is straight from the well, before the iron filter. 

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

On 8/30/2022 at 12:52 PM, The Killer of Fish said:

@Seattle_Aquarist, I know I'm a little late to the discussion and the fitting has already been installed, but wouldn't have been better to put the fitting on before any of the filters?  Then you get the base water and go from there.  Maybe with the iron in the water @Colton M could have the best red plants in the region.😏

BTW - @Colton M be careful with all of these changes to your water.  You are doing this to grow plants, but you never mentioned that your fish were suffering, so they are used to the water you have had and you are about to make a big change... at least it seems like a big change.  We don't want to go from dead plants to dead fish.

It has not been installed yet as I’m a ways from the store so I have to wait for parts, I believe the iron here would be too strong for fish unfortunately, the plants may like it a lot but it’s bad enough that the walls of our showers and toilets turn brown if we don’t have that filter, but I’d be open to trying it, I do have access to water straight from the well at the moment at least to test, now that I have a little time tonight I’m finally going to test it and post here in about an hour with results. 

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

On 8/29/2022 at 6:30 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Colton M  You may still have to use reverse osmosis to lower the hardness, it's a shame you can't get a sample of the well water before having to install the fitting. -Roy

It’s getting a bit late and I need parts so the plumbing will have to wait until the weekend, I’ll get a sample of the well water tonight, but I’m not sure if the iron will throw off the readings?

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

On 8/29/2022 at 11:33 AM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Colton M

OK, we know that you likely have little to no iron, calcium, and magnesium in your water.  In addition, as the water softener removes the calcium and magnesium it increases the sodium bicarbonate which increases the pH of your tank.  Ideally you can install that "T" before the water softener and use that water.  Worse comes to worse you can install a reverse osmosis system to supply water for your tank.  Reverse Osmosis will remove 97% of the sodium and 97% of the bicarbonates.  Then you can re-minieralize your RO water for the conditions you want in your tank.  Since using an RO unit causes a lot of 'waste water' (you can still use the water for other uses( you are fortunate that your well where you do not pay for water by the cubic yard like we do when hooked up to a utility.  Hope this helps! -Roy

 Hoping to get the fitting installed tonight, I will have to bring buckets upstairs until I can get pipe run but it will work for now, should I expect a lower ph then after the iron filter without the water softener? I’m also a little concerned that the water will be extremely hard but we’ll have to see. If it is very hard what are the suggestions to lowering hardness without tannins?

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

On 8/23/2022 at 10:34 AM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Colton M

I've been watching this post and I believe I have a probable cause for your lack of plant growth - it is the water softener.  Water softeners use a resin to strip out the calcium and magnesium ions from the water replacing then with either sodium or potassium ions (depending upon the softener recharge agent - sodium chloride / potassium chloride).  The most common recharge agent is sodium chloride (NaCl aka salt).  This is great for your plumbing, showers, laundry, etc. but unfortunately is not good for growing plants, especially aquatic plants.

You are not the first to encounter this issue, and no doubt you will not be the last.  There are ways to deal with this issue but first, do you know what the water parameters of your well water are? (btw, they will vary over the course of a year)  Could you please provide the following for your well water:

pH -
dKH -
dGH -
Nitrates (ppm) -

-Roy

 

Unfortunately I have not been able to get measurements of the water, but I did learn that the water coming from the well into my house goes through an iron filter and then to a water softener that uses the yellow bags of Morton softener salt pellets, I’m hoping to add a T after the iron filter and before the water softener but I’m not sure what the hardness or ph will be after that. 

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

On 8/23/2022 at 10:34 AM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Colton M

I've been watching this post and I believe I have a probable cause for your lack of plant growth - it is the water softener.  Water softeners use a resin strip out the calcium and magnesium ions from the water replacing then with either sodium or potassium ions (depending upon the softener recharge agent - sodium chloride / potassium chloride).  The most common recharge agent is sodium chloride (NaCl aka salt).  This is great for your plumbing, showers, laundry, etc. but unfortunately is not good for growing plants, especially aquatic plants.

You are not the first to encounter this issue, and no doubt you will not be the last.  There are ways to deal with this issue but first, do you know what the water parameters of your well water are? (btw, they will vary over the course of a year)  Could you please provide the following for your well water:

pH -
dKH -
dGH -
Nitrates (ppm) -

-Roy

 

I will get exact numbers when I get to the house using my master test kit but ph is around 8, hardness is off the chart (high end) for both and nitrates are very close to zero. 

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

Thank you all for the replies, some more info about the tank, the tank with the Val in it is a 55g that I’ve tried a ton of different plants in. It has a 75g sponge filter, some Congo tetras, neon tetras, guppies, kuhli loaches, emerald corydoras, and a common pleco. Not overstocked but definitely a large range of fish as this tank has become something of an everything tank. I live on a well with a water softener so my kh is pretty high and ph is around 8. I keep the tank at 78°F. And for the light I have a Fluval aqua sky 900mm with the lights turning on at sunrise and at 60% power until sunset (roughly 5:00am to 8:30pm). And for substrate I have Fluval Stratum about 2 1/2 inches deep. 

[None of my plants have ever grown, please help!]

Hello, I’m new to the forum but not new to the site, I’ve purchased many plants in the last couple years I’ve been in the hobby and I just cannot get my plants to grow, I’ve been using easy green about once a week with the recommended dosage, as well as api co2 booster (liquid) as often as I remember to do so (about 3x a week). Like the title says, I just cannot get any plants to grow in any of my tanks! Please let me know what other information is needed to get some help, I’ve spent a concerning amount of money on plants… The photo attached is of my Jungle Val which has shown no signs of growth and looks very sad.