Need help with Betta finrot/cycle issue

[Rononk]

On 9/5/2024 at 11:00 PM, Rononk said:

@rjv23I'll check around, I would think there should be a pond store somewhere. This was his 2nd day in MB with a little salt, so hoping to see some progress in next day or 2, but going to get a plastic tub to move him into because he seems super stressed being in 3.5G he's been in 20G for over a year so not much room to hide/move around in, sadly I didn't have any plastic tub on hand so he has to wait until tomorrow and I'll make a run into town. I had to reduce the salt in his QT today as he seemed stressed after a couple hours and lethargic, so did 50% water change, and added just some MB back in. Not sure if it was the salt, or the size of QT, but probably both. so figured I would reduce the stress of one until I can get him into a little bit large tub.

@rjv23 I couldn't find any PP or acriflavinium chloride at local pond shop, but I'm going to start looking further out maybe a bigger city has some or something, my Kanaplex is here today, wondering if I can treat that with methylene blue or would it be too toxic? I also picked up a 10G to make it my new QT as he was really stressed in the 3.5g, so going to get temps matched and put him into that and match the MB back to him. Can't tell if it's helping as it's only day 3, it's still there, just can't tell if its growing or halted, trying to get pictures to compare but he's hiding a lot. but i'm assuming it could take a while to show signs of healing.

 

[rjv23]

sorry, there was a typo in my last post, you are looking for acriflavine chloride. there are many branded products that contain acriflavine. it is a pretty widely used antiseptic in the fish trade. check the active ingredients on the package of the branded products you are finding. should be there somewhere. sorry for the typo. the kanamycin should work fine. I would still do a salt bath followed by a peroxide bath, then the kanamycin  treatment.  if the ailment isnt too serious, reduce the salt concentration. I rarely use kanamycin, not easy to get here, but the baths usually fix the problems quickly with the acriflavine followup. also I treat in small containers and move to larger ones for rest. these fish dont need alot of water, and if really sick, a little salt and an almond leaf so they can stay floating near the surface works fine for me. I let most of my fish sit in 2 L of water while on the mend. in Thailand I have seen breeders use whiskey bottles, mickey size to keep the males, or even plastic cups. change the water daily and you are fine.

[Rononk]

On 9/6/2024 at 2:19 PM, rjv23 said:

sorry, there was a typo in my last post, you are looking for acriflavine chloride. there are many branded products that contain acriflavine. it is a pretty widely used antiseptic in the fish trade. check the active ingredients on the package of the branded products you are finding. should be there somewhere. sorry for the typo. the kanamycin should work fine. I would still do a salt bath followed by a peroxide bath, then the kanamycin  treatment.  if the ailment isnt too serious, reduce the salt concentration. I rarely use kanamycin, not easy to get here, but the baths usually fix the problems quickly with the acriflavine followup. also I treat in small containers and move to larger ones for rest. these fish dont need alot of water, and if really sick, a little salt and an almond leaf so they can stay floating near the surface works fine for me. I let most of my fish sit in 2 L of water while on the mend. in Thailand I have seen breeders use whiskey bottles, mickey size to keep the males, or even plastic cups. change the water daily and you are fine.

@rjv23Thanks, and no worries about typo, I've got at least 2 more days of MB treatment, should I continue that or stop that? or do you mean to do the salt dip, and peroxide bath then put him back in the MB QT? I'm not noticing much difference, it may have halted it? but I am hesitant to stop the treatment early as it might just make it more difficult to kill? I'm trying to get pictures of his fin every day to compare, but not having much luck in the 3.5 he hides as soon as I come over I'll try to post daily pictures as well in case I miss something. I am going to move him to the 10G at least for rest, and hopefully reduce his stress, I know it's typically the leading cause of fin rot that and water parameters.

Yeah I had to order Kanaplex from the U.S as in Canada antibiotics are extremely hard to get without vet prescription. just wasn't sure if I could use it with MB and salt etc.

 

Edit : Also the only thing I found with Acriflavin was Ruby Reef Rally, it seems to be liquid not powder, having hard time finding any products in Canada with Acriflavin listed as ingredient.

 

Edited September 6 by Rononk

[Rononk]

On 9/6/2024 at 2:19 PM, rjv23 said:

sorry, there was a typo in my last post, you are looking for acriflavine chloride. there are many branded products that contain acriflavine. it is a pretty widely used antiseptic in the fish trade. check the active ingredients on the package of the branded products you are finding. should be there somewhere. sorry for the typo. the kanamycin should work fine. I would still do a salt bath followed by a peroxide bath, then the kanamycin  treatment.  if the ailment isnt too serious, reduce the salt concentration. I rarely use kanamycin, not easy to get here, but the baths usually fix the problems quickly with the acriflavine followup. also I treat in small containers and move to larger ones for rest. these fish dont need alot of water, and if really sick, a little salt and an almond leaf so they can stay floating near the surface works fine for me. I let most of my fish sit in 2 L of water while on the mend. in Thailand I have seen breeders use whiskey bottles, mickey size to keep the males, or even plastic cups. change the water daily and you are fine.

@rjv23It's a little hard to see with the MB in the tank, but this is it today, it's actually more white/black when seen under a neutral light.  its the spot in the mid section near his body.

Edited September 6 by Rononk

[rjv23]

sera makes a product, (sera omnipur A) that is a good water conditioner with this ingredient. this is a liquid. yellow neon color, I use it in rest tanks along with a powder form I can buy here. depends on what I am treating. new fish with no visible problems get the bath sequence then into a rest tank with a few drops of the sera product. if open wounds, I sprinkle on the powder direct. saved many fish, but dont do too much at once, if you are using MB and it is working just finish with that. if it doesnt , do the salt and peroxide treatments.

Edited September 7 by rjv23

[Rononk]

On 9/7/2024 at 3:04 AM, rjv23 said:

sera makes a product, (sera omnipur A) that is a good water conditioner with this ingredient. this is a liquid. yellow neon color, I use it in rest tanks along with a powder form I can buy here. depends on what I am treating. new fish with no visible problems get the bath sequence then into a rest tank with a few drops of the sera product. if open wounds, I sprinkle on the powder direct. saved many fish, but dont do too much at once, if you are using MB and it is working just finish with that. if it doesnt , do the salt and peroxide treatments.

Got ya, thanks. still not sure if MB is working, his 4th day in it. said to do 3-5 day treatment, the blue tint makes it really hard to see if it's progressing or not. i'll let you know when the MB is over and I try the salt. I'll probably give him a couple days in a rest after MB. just to make sure not to over stress him more then he is. I'll post another picture later today too. he came out this morning for food, but then hid back into his betta log. so I'm leaving him alone.

 

Edit: I can order the Sera but will take a bit to get here as it seems Ebay is only place that carries it nearby, the PP I can order but I am going to talk to a friend who has a couple ponds maybe they have some, but the PP I think will be quicker to get here the other might take a week or two. It's hard to find products here with Acriflavin Hydrochloride in the ingredient lists, might be one of the substances they restrict, there was so many different pet medications/supplies they restricted a few years ago.

In meantime once his MB treatment is over I'll let him rest 2-3 days and monitor if it continues to grow, I'll do Salt/peroxide dip, and I can try the Kanaplex antibiotic until the AHC and PP arrive. hopefully he lives that long, poor little guy has been fighting a lot of stuff last few months.

Edited September 7 by Rononk

[Rononk]

On 9/7/2024 at 3:04 AM, rjv23 said:

sera makes a product, (sera omnipur A) that is a good water conditioner with this ingredient. this is a liquid. yellow neon color, I use it in rest tanks along with a powder form I can buy here. depends on what I am treating. new fish with no visible problems get the bath sequence then into a rest tank with a few drops of the sera product. if open wounds, I sprinkle on the powder direct. saved many fish, but dont do too much at once, if you are using MB and it is working just finish with that. if it doesnt , do the salt and peroxide treatments.

@rjv23Just a small update, still can't tell if it's better or worse, I'm starting to slowly siphon out the MB from tank,  I ordered some Sera Omnipur A it's coming from france, was the closest/fastest shipping I could get, still going to be 1-3 weeks. I also found some PP which should be here in a week or so. I have done the salt peroxide dip yet as I'm still getting him off MB, so in another few days I'll probably try that, or do the Kanaplex/jungle fuzz treatment and wait for the PP and Sera omnipur product to arrive. but being the salt/peroxide bath will probably be less stress i'll start with that. do I only do the dip once or several times a week? it's going to be a few days yet as I wanna give him a couple days to rest after I get the MB filtered out. or most of it.

[Rononk]

On 9/7/2024 at 3:04 AM, rjv23 said:

sera makes a product, (sera omnipur A) that is a good water conditioner with this ingredient. this is a liquid. yellow neon color, I use it in rest tanks along with a powder form I can buy here. depends on what I am treating. new fish with no visible problems get the bath sequence then into a rest tank with a few drops of the sera product. if open wounds, I sprinkle on the powder direct. saved many fish, but dont do too much at once, if you are using MB and it is working just finish with that. if it doesnt , do the salt and peroxide treatments.

@rjv23Hey, sorry for lack of updates, the MB didn't work with the salt in his QT, so I started him on Kanaplex while I waited for the Sera omnipur A and PP to arrive, it just got arrived here today, but he's only in day 5 of his antibiotic treatment, and the spot has turned into a hole a few days ago (before treatment with Kanaplex) but I think the antibiotics have slowed or halted it, but haven't seen much healing or reduction yet.

My question is, should I do those 4 dips you recommended or wait out the treatment of antibiotics now, I called Seachem and they recommended 7-14 days of antibiotics before stopping? I imagine doing both might be a bit much for his system, he's been through a lot now, I gave him about 5-7 days after MB before I did the Kanaplex. just wanted to ask as tomorrow I will be giving him his 3rd dose of antibiotic and then waiting another 48hrs, so figured you might be busy and thought  this would be good to ask in the middle of treatment. I'm leaning towards waiting for antibiotics and see if they work, I fear of overtaxing him, or the antibiotic not clearing it up completely and it coming back worse.

[rjv23]

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sorry, I am not qualified to give you advice for a fish I have not seen. I laid out my treatment plan for this but advise you do what you think is best. doing multiple treatments on a fish for a simple external problem is usually a good way to kill it. go with what the professionals have told you. for me, bath dips with the sera product as a antiseptic should have worked in a day or 2. I avoid antibiotics if possible because then you are screwing with gut flora also. just do what you think is best, good luck