rjv23

again, tks for your reply.yes, it is a hard ailment to understand. it might be some kind of genetic quirk that shows up in a few fish. but I line and inteer cross my breeding program to try and prevent the lines from getting too concentrated. I posed here curious if some other breeders might have come across similar afflictions. anyway, 99%+ of my mish seem fine and not affected. it is disappointing when you lose one that is special. tks for your responses.

hi, tks, yes thought of this and it is possible. there is some lead and other polutants in the water here. my systems run of muncipal treated water but that doesnt garanteed total safety.I use seachm conditioner during water canges and age water when possible.it is strange how it affects only odd fish, most are strong, healthy and vibrant. i may have to go to resin filters for heavy metals and dioxins. thank you for your reply.

depending on the number of tanks you have, you might want to consider a potassium permanganate treatment. you need to be careful, it dangerous and will kill if overdosed. but it is very very effective for many external problems. it is also a good treatment for general sterilization in large systems and ponds. there are several sources for use on the web. whattley discus has a video to show their process and there are several pond treatments available. but use with care. this will take care of hole in the head and many many other parasitic and bacterial ailments. sometimes fungal also but that can be hit and miss.

thank you for your reply.ph is between 6.8 and 7. EC is about 200. the water is filtered through a large carbon canister before the going into the ponds. I have raised fish in the same water for years and the symptoms did not start after a water change. the ponds were stable and without change for a week. temp is hot here lately, around 34d C, but this has also happened in cooler seasons. sorry, I dont test hardness, I have floating plants to handle amonia and nitrites with media canisters in the tanks for bacteria.. I would suspect ammonia if it werent for the body spasms.these are anabantoids si pretty hardy when it comes to DO and water parameters. fish were about 8~9 months old, just hitting maturity and breeding age. one died from this during the first setup with a female. disappointing because he was quite special, solid turquoise. sad to lose him before I got off spring.

I breed paradise fish. I usually have a few thousand fish in various stages of development. over the past few months I have lost a couple adult breeder fish to a strange affliction. both had similar symptoms. but were separated by a few months. the fish were kept in a pond container in about 70L of water with other fish. the other fish seem not affected. generally the fish looks normal and healthy - no bloating or any outward skin symptoms. no rubbing or any real signs of stress. eats normally up until the symptoms start. the fish develops body tremors like uncontrolled spasms. between the spasms the fish hangs at the surface and has some labored breathing. I lost one a few days ago that that I had separated in a hospital tank. it was hanging at the surface and just not acting right. some panting and body tremors. I checked for velvet but no color loss, clamping or sheen on the body. I suspected flukes so gave it a potassium permanganate treatment bath which it seemed to handle without a problem (I have a stock solution that I regularly treat my ponds with every month or so and the fish seem to handle it no problem). a few hours later, it spasmed and had a seizure, then sank to the bottom upside down like it died - frozen like a stone. when I came back a few hours later it was looking normal again but still occasionally hanging at the surface and breathing harder than usual. it was swimming fairly normal with some body shakes but still better than the spasmed sinking rock that it showed before. the next day it was dead on the surface. there was some salt I added to the hospital tank water to help it along, but nothing else. all my other fish are in several tubs but all in the same water. this fish expired in a day after I notice it hanging at the surface. the other fish in the tub are fine. the body tremors are pretty violent and its like the fish is hooked up to an electric prod. the other fish that have expired like this had similar tremors, even one in a breeding tank - yet the female with him was fine and had no symptoms. I am thinking it might be something genetic, but it is pretty rare considering the number of fish I keep and the age of the fish affected. if anyone has any suggestions it would be much appreciated.

I also cannot get flubendazole, fenbendazole or levamizole. I can get mebendazole so did some searching for use in aquariums. here are a couple links to some info, take with a grain of salt: https://www.plantedtank.net/threads/experience-with-mebendazole-for-hydra-eradication.147692/ I have done a treatment for camallanus with mebendazole and seemed to work well, fish is eating well and active again.

try a breeding cone. then buy some plastic garden mesh, make a circle a little bigger than the cone then use zip ties to stitch it together in the circle. this can fit over the cone when the eggs are laid and then the fry can get out when they hatch. there is also a vid by LRB aquatics where he visits a fishroom. the owner had a plexi holder that fit over the edge of the tank and the slate attached to this. easy to remove and replace so the parents dont freak. I made a couple of these and they work much better than slate. I also made a version with split tiles and ran aeration up the center to fan the eggs after laying. this works well for angels and discus, again, shape a mesh to slide over the angled slate after laid. benefits are that it is off of the tank floor and can be removed very easily. my fish always used this, even pairs that would lay on pumps and strange places changed to this after I started using it.

really depends on what you are feeding and the size of the tank. if small fry in a confined tank, definitely strain and rinse. I used the dump in everything method in the past, everything is fine until suddenly fry are gasping and dying. so for these confined areas with small fry, I take precautions and strain and into a container of fresh water for feeding. In larger tanks to juveniles and even young adults, the salt water and waste from the hatching water wont hurt them. but again, depends on the size of the tank and the amount of water changes you do.

there is genopro for tracking genealogy if your breeding program requires that, can also log details of the spawn: https://genopro.com/

(macropodus, bettas); I cull often and hard. for the first culls, 5~8mm, I have 4 ctenopoma that take care of it, larger culls I have an arrangement with a LFS that feeds to arowana and datnioides. I believe making sure the strongest and best shaped fish make it to grow out is the best way to keep the hobby healthy. because I cull very hard, my lines usually produce good shaped, healthy fish. so even if a fish does not 'fit ' my breeding program, if it is strong with good form I will grow it out enough to move to a LFS for sale.

nice setup, a few suggestions if you are willing; 1. i use a clean tank with plastic pipe or flower pots for hiding places, floating and sinking pipes are both used. everything else is removed. this makes it much easier to pull the female, then the male when the time is right. if there is alot of stuff in the tank, it is hard to do without disturbing everything. 2. use a floating piece of yellow translucent plastic for the nest. I use yellow PP lids from yogurt containers. color resembles a leaf and will stay floating. sometimes the leaf will sink before job is done and may have some bacteria. a lid yellow lid that lets the light through will let the male check the eggs and tend the nest. 3. your breeding chimney is good, but I use one that is a mesh type so the two can not contact but the hormones can flow back and forth and the pair can really sense each other. 4. sometimes i prepare a tray type tank and then pull the fry as soon as they get tails. they will hatch fine on their own. depends on the males tending skills. 5. I use vinegar eels with first bites starting about 2~3 days after tails. the eels will stay in the water column and be ready for the fry to eat when they are hungry.

very dependent on what type of fry. I breed paradise fish, bettas and other labyrinths. it is hard keeping a balance between keeping the food constantly iin front of the fry for good growth and having wasted food sitting on the bottom causing problems. I have managed to find a few solutions. I keep alot of japanese trapdoor snails and bladder snails in my newborn fry tanks. also a few almond leaves to give the fry something to pick at and a surface where the food can land so they can eat later. for larger fry i have rigged feeders that float at around middle level with a float feeding ring at the top so most food sinks onto a floating mid-column surface. I also use aquaculture probiotics to help digest waste and stabilize the water. I also make a rapashy type food with black soldier fly, egg and other ingredients bound with a agar so I can feed this to larger fry and they an pick all day. I rarely vacuum tanks, but do water changes 30% couple times a week to keep get rid of stunting hormones and keep them growing. if the tank is cycled and balanced, fry will do much better in what looks to be a dirty tank (within reason).

Another thing I forgot to mention. One of the early females that I use had very plain color. kinda of gray. Her caudal was also a shaped a little strange; a lyre shape but very pointed and the tips were elongated but very fine and pinched, (not usual shape for opercularis) . I suspected she was a hybrid cross to ocellatus ( I have heard some reports on facebook groups that ocellatus + opercularis crosses are very gray looking and rather dull and ugly. But this is the canvas I was looking for. the opercularis male I had was well colored and I thought would pass the color traits well. Anyway, they were very prolific and had 2 spawns with several hundred fry each. Again, I am not positive of he true origin of the female, but she was some kind of hybrid and was very fertile. They threw very nice colored fish, I lost her later but would like to find another to breed back in again. Finally, I am working more blue into my line for the painted tail and fin colors. I have a pair isolated in a basin that have been together for a few weeks now. the female is from my stock, the male is blue with slight slight red stripes and no black. Looked like not much action there and I was about to give up. It has been about H 18dC to L 12d C in Taipei this week, quite cool all week. Today I found fry in the basin. Probably about 3 days old. So not only was the blue male fertile, he managed to get it done in pretty cool temps. Looks like about 100 fry.

Hydrogen peroxide in my water conditioning tank 30% .25ml/L aerated 24 hrs before adding to tank. I also add 3% - 0.5ml/L if I have some bacteria out break in the tank or for a bath for new fish. I don't sterilize a tank unless there is something really wrong in it - then 30% 1ml/L. I keep snails in all my tanks, MTS in planted tanks, Jap. trapdoor snails and nerite snails in fry and grow out tanks, apple snails in adult breeder holding tanks. you can quarantine snails and deworm them before you bring then into the system to get rid of any parasites. For me, the benefit they provide out weighs the little bit of trouble you have to introduce them. Once they are stable, there is no problem. I deworm my fish regularly anyway along with the snails. Feeding some live foods or frozen foods is a more likely source of parasites in my opinion. Bleach is good on rocks and wood that you want to change color on, then soak in water a couple days before putting back in the tank. Actually, I have found that making a snail trap is a pretty easy way to get populations under control if you are worried about it.

Below is a quick outline of my breeding procedure if you have interest; 1) Conditioned water, 40L tub, add 10ml 35% H2O2, in a net bag add banana, almond leaves, rooibos tea bags. 2) prepare 2 tanks, one for breeders, one for fry. Breeding tank 15~20 L, fry tank 10L. Breeder tanks can be planted with substrate, add cut clay pots or PVC pipe for the female to hang out in if she needs. I use yellow plastic floaters for nesting media From my experience, these should be translucent so the male can tend and monitor the health of the eggs by the color thru the plastic. I use yellow because it is the color of leaves and similar to what they would use in the wild. (usually my breeders are already together for a while in the tank. I don't separate them unless I am going to change the pairing. If I plan to continually breed the same pair, they stay together). Some pairs hang out well together, some pairs the male dominates, others the female pushes him around. hard to tell until they are together. I don;t use the clear chimney like the method used when breeding bettas. I find I can keep the pairs together without that introduction and the need to remove the female. Many females will actually tend the nest with the male. Heat the tank to about 28C. I have spawned fish in colder water, but found the clutches are smaller and the fry are also smaller when they hatch. Just my observation, no real record keeping. 3) I start conditioning the fry tank several days before the pair starts breeding. for these tanks I use acrylic fridge trays or similar plastic tubes that hold about 10L. Bare bottomed. I use a sponge filter with a slot cut lift pipe that goes above the water column. air lifts to the top but the water is pushed out thru the thin slots in the pipe, creates a little current but no surface motion, gives the fry some movement to get them swimming. Populate these tanks with snails, Jap. trap door snails or bladder snails. Also place several almond leaves and other leaves to get the tank flora and flora and fauna growing. I also add aquaculture probiotics in these tanks at startup so the bacteria is established when the fry are moved in. I have thin pieces of high density styrofoam squares that I float on the surface to break any surface movement and give the fry something to anchor to. 4) When the pair are ready and mate, I usually wait until there are alot of small tails visible and some fry are squirting away from the nest. Takes a couple times to get the timing right, but before they are free swimming, I use a 500 micron shrimp net or large BBS strainer, slide it under the entire nest and lift the whole nest and fry out and into the rearing tank. Temp should be same or close. around 26~ 28C. 5) after the fry are moved they will flail around and find an anchor spot on the original nest or the foam squares, I let them eat thru their yolk sacs, when I see some are starting to move from the then start feeding vinegar eels into the tank. These are a great first food because they stay living in the water column and will anchor to the side of the tank. when you see the sides are picked clean, you know the fry are eating. I also use powdered food (hakari first bites, I also use vibra bites ground to powder in a coffee grinder) soaked in a squirt bottle and sprayed into the tank. after about a week I start feeding BBS. I also lower then turn off the heat. In another week I move them into rooftop tanks. I feed BBS, then black soldier fly powdered. Later frozen brine shrimp and then finally my staple food which is a homemade gel concoction of egg, black soldier fly, garlic, vitamins, minerals, agar and other, cooked and frozen. Everyone will have their own system but this works well for me. the things I would stress are: 1) use the aquaculture probiotics (it creates biofilm and breaks down waste). 2) don't keep your tanks too clean, the fry will eat what is in the tank they need bacteria for food, 3) use snails to break down waste and filter water. Any questions pls post, tks for your attention

ok, I will have a look at it tomorrow. I also created a facebook group, paradise breeders guild, and have the TaiAquatics youtube channel with a friend, pls visit, like and subscribe

sorry, re; sterilization, I have had fish that I am sure were not pure opercularis. and they were fertile. I have been tempted to try a direct hybrid, but want to wait until I get the traits I want fixed in my fish first, then will use the same strategy to outcross to ocellatus to get the cold weather hardiness and to spechti to get a refined body shape. have seen pictures of spechti with opercularis coloring so I think they are hybrids and were breeding. My ultimate goal is to get a vibrant looking pond fish that shows well from the top and can handle outdoor cooler climates.

sorry for the long winded reply. I have a maybe strange strategy/philosophy when it comes to line breeding. My goal is to arrive one day at a color strain that is uniform but genetically viable meaning that the color will eventually breed true, but the group will be stable in the long run and can be bred true in large numbers. (some breeders interbreed so heavily that they get to the traits they want but the line is fragile and could easily collapse). I keep a set of about 20~24 breeders that I line breed to polish the color and body lines. Not all are breeding all the time; some breed more than others; some are insurance in case something happens to my prime breeders. Something like cooking, pinch of this dash of that. Also, fish change as they mature. An individual that might not have looked good a few months ago grows into something that I want to add to the line. Sometimes I can see a pair together months before I set them up, other times I setup them up the day I decide. all depends. I have about 6~8 pairs that I swap in and out define the line. ( generations ago I started with 2 males that were store bought of different stock but had the general color I wanted and the body lines that suited me. I paired these with different females with the body lines I wanted. The first starting the females I had did not have the colors I wanted (thick blue with red stripes), but the body lines were good and they had the painted tails and fins I wanted. With Thai bettas the green color carries the metallic. In Paradise, I think its foil blue. So if you go too hard for the orange, the fish becomes dull orange. I look for breeders that carry a metallic orange. I found to get this I cull at night under a flashlight so I can keep the metallic. I line bred with eye to getting the best females carrying the color traits and body lines I want. I also work the males, But I have fewer active males than females. I always choose fish from outside with traits that I want that are males. I don't use outside females. I breed these into my female stock. The first generation I cull heavily and keep males. then breed these back into my females using a different female. when these start throwing the kind of female I want (after 2 or 3 generations) then I breed these females back into my male stock. so in fact I am always out crossing outside males to my line females. I keep these off spring separate until they carry the traits and have the health that I want before bringing them into the line. There maybe still be some cleaning up after, but they generally fit the direction I am going. There are many things I need to improve yet. I dont keep good records, mostly because I breed in tubs that house mixed batches. Bettas are much easier because of size and tank space requirements. At the beginning I was much more lenient regarding fin lines and culled to get the color. I cull strongly for body lines, especially top line. Now I will out cross for fin shape and ray separation, scale pattern, etc. Some of the Viet breeders have such beautiful crowntails. I will start introducing this soon. I also keep a few deformed fish with the traits that fit my line and try and get the mutation to breed thru. for example, I have a male with a clipped dorsal fin. I am hoping a female from his spawns show up with similar and I will put these together. similar, some paradise have color in the dorsal fin, I also try and get pairs that will carry this trait. tks for your interest

Thank you for the encouragement. Of course only my opinion, but I believe this is one of the most under valued fish in the hobby. Macropodus are close cousins to bettas, so most of the colors you see in bettas are available in Paradise fish. But there just hasn't been the development yet. there are many beautiful strains coming from Taiwan and Vietnam now. I have bred discus, angels, bettas, leopards fish and tried Thai, tiger fish and African butterfly fish (these were the ones on purpose). Paradise fish are the easiest to keep, the most durable and the hardiest. They breed easily and in great numbers. They are a perfect outdoor pond fish because they gobble mosquitos. I aim to develop a color strain for top down viewing that will shimmer in ponds with the painted top and tail. It is coming along, few more generations. I line breed these and constantly work in outside genes to keep stability and add body traits. I have seen gold stains and have crossed with other types. I also want to try and inject the cold weather hardiness of ocellatus if they will breed. I try and breed the outside males back into my females

sure, pls check youtube TaiAquatics here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPo2nnQg0ZJhwwfUGcKP0_Q https://www.facebook.com/Global-Macropodus-Paradise-Fish-Breeders-Guild-環球天堂鬥魚協會-104827158649501 https://www.facebook.com/groups/225001934552940/?multi_permalinks=1474631936256594&notif_id=1639905682655488&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&ref=not I am working a color strain to remove the vertical stripes - orange metalic body - with painted blue in tails and fins. there are snake skin strains, as well as others that are not sterile. I keep tanks (80L) with 20 males. I use pvc pipe hotels and floating tubes to give each their own space. In community tank, they get along with most fish unless they are breeding, then they are territorial around the nest. Sorry for my earlier harsh reaction. I have kept and bred fish for 35+ yrs. These have become my favorite.

@Fish Folk I don't frequent here because the quality of the info is usually not that accurate. I do breed paradise fish, by the thousands and it really frustrates me to find attitudes prescribing a genus of fish is like this or that and stances against hybridizing. Actually, paradise fish are fine in community tanks if it is big enough and if they are not breeding. They can be kept in groups without much problem, just provide some cover for individual territories. And breeding pairs can be left together continually. Maybe I am wrong and you have yrs of experience with Macropodus, but seems not. Nature has been hybridizing for eons. If they are in a tub and they breed, it was meant to be. I would suggest stop passing book knowledge on to others. Try practical knowledge and see if that has the same result before preaching gospel. always the same result from these forums, you really need experienced moderators.

interesting article here about a red seaweed known as Asparagopsis taxiformis providing an immunity boost in farmed fish, would be interesting if a food for aquarium fish had this supplement https://newatlas.com/science/seaweed-supplement-immune-response-farmed-fish/