Apathetic betta

[VanDogh]

On 8/12/2024 at 9:01 PM, AtomicSunfish said:

I’ve read about the genetics of color and aggression in bettas, but I forget the findings. Were red ones generally supposed to be more aggressive? I’ve usually kept iridescent blue ones (my favorite color), but I’ve had one or two red ones, but not in community tanks, so I can’t really compare.

if I understod this video correctly, red bettas are more prone to aggression due to selective breeding (pretty interesting watch)

Wow I googled "iridescent blue betta" and those looks gorgeous! I think blue ones are not as aggressive but can't remember and it was a while ago I watched the video 🙂

On 8/12/2024 at 9:01 PM, AtomicSunfish said:

In my experience, the trick with bettas is they are tough for a small fish, particularly with other gouramis. So, I’ve been able to keep them with almost anything their size or even larger, as long it’s not too aggressive (eg aggressive cichlids or minnows). The exception is they’ve killed my African dwarf frogs. But with tetras, livebearers, and catfish, they’ve been fine for me. However, in a smaller tank, fish can get more aggressive, so that may explain it.

Aha, so bettas with gouramies is a no-no then I suppose? What do you consider to be a smaller tank? If I ever try corys with another betta again I think I'll have a bigger tank but what would be a good size do you think?

[AtomicSunfish]

On 8/13/2024 at 7:49 AM, VanDogh said:

if I understod this video correctly, red bettas are more prone to aggression due to selective breeding (pretty interesting watch)

Wow I googled "iridescent blue betta" and those looks gorgeous! I think blue ones are not as aggressive but can't remember and it was a while ago I watched the video 🙂

Aha, so bettas with gouramies is a no-no then I suppose? What do you consider to be a smaller tank? If I ever try corys with another betta again I think I'll have a bigger tank but what would be a good size do you think?

That’s a great video, and he does a great job summarizing that paper. 😃

Yes, bettas have been selectively bred for aggression. They’re like pit bulls; sadly, they come from the animal fighting world, and were bred to win fights for the people betting on them. But they’re not all the same, and some lines are more aggressive than others. IIRC red color is also associated with greater aggression.

Yes, I’m a sucker for iridescent blue fishes! I love my true blue acara, and the Jack Dempsey, jewelfish, blue bettas, blue gouramis, and dwarf gouramis I’ve had in the past were stunning, too. 😍

Yes, bettas are just small, very aggressive gouramis. That’s really what they are. I once had a betta in a 29g with a 4-inch long male three-spot gourami. The betta constantly chased the much larger gourami around the tank, and I had to separate them. It’s incredible how aggressive gouramis are in general between males; with bettas it’s just that much more.

Personally, my minimum tank size is a 10g. I have one now with some zebra danios and an African dwarf frog. In the past, I had a betta in there. I could also see keeping a honey gourami in there, but probably not a dwarf gourami, and certainly not a larger species. I forgot what you said the size of your tank is (was it a 5.5g?). In a 5g, I think a betta would have to be the only fish, although he might cohabitate with snails. In such a small space, a territorial fish like a betta would likely be intolerant of other fish in general. A 10g could be enough space for a betta to live with guppies, Cory cats, or Otocinclus. In a 20-long, you could include tetras, platies, etc. Only in a truly huge (but shallow!) tank could a betta divide the space up with other bettas/gouramis into separate territories.

Edited August 13 by AtomicSunfish

[VanDogh]

On 8/13/2024 at 7:19 PM, AtomicSunfish said:

Yes, bettas have been selectively bred for aggression. They’re like pit bulls; sadly, they come from the animal fighting world, and were bred to win fights for the people betting on them. But they’re not all the same, and some lines are more aggressive than others. IIRC red color is also associated with greater aggression.

Yeah that sounds logical. It's sad what humans do to animals for "entertainment" :( 

What does IIRC mean? 

On 8/13/2024 at 7:19 PM, AtomicSunfish said:

Yes, I’m a sucker for iridescent blue fishes! I love my true blue acara, and the Jack Dempsey, jewelfish, blue bettas, blue gouramis, and dwarf gouramis I’ve had in the past were stunning, too. 😍

Understandable! Blue acaras are so stunning, I have actually been thinking of getting one but my biggest running tank is already pretty crowded. I'm tempted to get a blue betta as my next betta haha. I also want those blue endlers guppies, can't remember what they're called, but they also look so pretty!

On 8/13/2024 at 7:19 PM, AtomicSunfish said:

Yes, bettas are just small, very aggressive gouramis. That’s really what they are. I once had a betta in a 29g with a 4-inch long male three-spot gourami. The betta constantly chased the much larger gourami around the tank, and I had to separate them. It’s incredible how aggressive gouramis are in general between males; with bettas it’s just that much more.

I see, so all labyrinth fish are aggressive to some extent? I have 3 gouramies (3 spot, blue gourami and gold gourami) and they always chase eachother around but I have heard it's normal behavior. They have "kissed" but I have never seen them attack eachother to the extent of anyone getting wounded. (To clarify, they live in another tank and I would never think of keeping them together with the betta)

 

On 8/13/2024 at 7:19 PM, AtomicSunfish said:

Personally, my minimum tank size is a 10g. I have one now with some zebra danios and an African dwarf frog. In the past, I had a betta in there. I could also see keeping a honey gourami in there, but probably not a dwarf gourami, and certainly not a larger species. I forgot what you said the size of your tank is (was it a 5.5g?). In a 5g, I think a betta would have to be the only fish, although he might cohabitate with snails. In such a small space, a territorial fish like a betta would likely be intolerant of other fish in general. A 10g could be enough space for a betta to live with guppies, Cory cats, or Otocinclus. In a 20-long, you could include tetras, platies, etc. Only in a truly huge (but shallow!) tank could a betta divide the space up with other bettas/gouramis into separate territories.

My tank is 55L so approximately 14 gallons I believe. Is it still too small for a betta plus some other fish? He hasn't touched the bristlenose pleco yet or the amano shrimps that also lives in the same tank. There's also alot of plants as hiding spots but my corys were very active (swimming up and down on the glass) and I suspect that's why he attacked one of them.

Isn't dwarf gourami and honey gourami of similar size?

[AtomicSunfish]

On 8/13/2024 at 6:39 PM, VanDogh said:

What does IIRC mean?

I see, so all labyrinth fish are aggressive to some extent? I have 3 gouramies (3 spot, blue gourami and gold gourami) and they always chase eachother around but I have heard it's normal behavior. They have "kissed" but I have never seen them attack eachother to the extent of anyone getting wounded. (To clarify, they live in another tank and I would never think of keeping them together with the betta)

My tank is 55L so approximately 14 gallons I believe. Is it still too small for a betta plus some other fish? He hasn't touched the bristlenose pleco yet or the amano shrimps that also lives in the same tank. There's also alot of plants as hiding spots but my corys were very active (swimming up and down on the glass) and I suspect that's why he attacked one of them.

Isn't dwarf gourami and honey gourami of similar size?

IIRC = If I Recall Correctly 

Yes, the labyrinth fishes are a rowdy bunch, just like other territorial percomorphs, such as cichlids, sunfishes, marine gobies and jaw fishes, etc. All 3 of your gouramis are different varieties of the same species: Trichopodus trichopterus. It’s like how different breeds of dog are all still dogs. The three-spot gourami (in any form) is one of my favorites, and they are a bit more aggressive than other, smaller gouramis. Females often (but not always) tolerate each other, but the males - like bettas - never do. As a general rule, if two fish display to each other with fins spread or gills flared every now and then, but without too much contact, that’s a sign they can cohabitate safely. However, if there is a lot of habitual one-sided chasing, or lots of biting, or if a fish is too scared to come out, that means the losing fish would have escaped in the wild, but cannot in captivity. If the dominant individual does not kill the subordinate one outright, then overtime the loser could die from the stress. You don’t want constant conflict.

Okay, so a 14g. I used to have a 15g, which was basically a tall version of a 10g. Anyway, it sounds like your betta is fine with the Ancistrus and the shrimps. I would just leave it at that. You might not want to add any more unless you have the betta in a 20L or 29g.

Honey gouramis are a bit smaller than dwarf gouramis, and less assertive, too.