Opinions - What To Do Now?

[Miranda Marie]

Hey, guys. I'm looking for outside opinions because I have run this problem through my head too much and now every option seems equally bad. So I'd like some other perspectives.

As a lot of you know, my betta Romi passed away last month, and I never figured out the cause. Fish tuberculosis? A parasite I didn't catch until the damage was too far gone? A mystery infection none of my meds even touched? At this point, I have no idea what killed her, and I'm still really sad and confused when I think about the two months we spent trying every medication under the sun with no success.

And now her tank is empty, aside from 1 nerite snail and 2 dream blue neocardinia shrimp. Winter is coming up fast for those of us in my area (temps drop fast and snow begins in October most years) so if I want to order any fish for that tank, it's gotta be soon. But do I, when I don't even know what killed her?

Leaving the tank essentially empty is just going to make me keep thinking about her all winter, and I already have seasonal depression. The thought of it sitting vacant for months is really depressing. But ordering another betta and planning to proactively treat her and hope for the best also leaves me feeling really concerned that I'll be dooming her to the same fate in 6 months.

So my options are:

1) Leave the tank until spring and hope whatever pathogen killed her is gone by then.

2) Order another betta and proactively treat the tank in case it was a parasite we missed for too long.

3) Order a different kind of fish for a 5 gallon, treat proactively, and wait to see what happens.

Or:

4) Tear the tank down and start completely over, which would also involve waiting for spring for fish due to how long cycling tanks.

Also, the other tank was definitely cross-contaminated with whatever she had. After thinking about it, I think the clown killis were patient 0 over there... and they shared a water change bucket for a couple months. So far, everyone currently in that tank is fine, though. But if I do tear down the 5 gallon, there would have to be no sharing of filter media, etc, to it'd be starting from scratch and hoping there was no accidental cross contamination after that point.

I just need other opinions. My head hurts from going over the options and I don't know what to try. I'm leaning towards option #3 just because getting another betta right now feels too painful, but should I even do that?

What do you guys do when you have disease kill a fish and no treatments work?

[HelplessNewbie]

Sorry for the passing of your pet. I am only a few months into this hobby and experienced already a number of fish (and invertebrate) deaths. I can relate to wanting to know what caused them. No one wants their next pet to die of the same mysterious things.

I am starting to think that there are just some fish that can survive, and some that do not. It can be genetics, water parameters, stress, overfeeding, bullying or pathogens introduced. Some of this we can control to a certain degree. I don't know if I can truly eliminate pathogens. I recall someone posted in the forum that they focus their efforts more in improving immunity and well-being. That is starting to make sense to me. Or, maybe, I misinterpreted...

Anyway, I would try Option 3, a different fish... ultimately, I feel that my emotional state as a pet-keeper is most important. It makes me more effective as a human and allows me to give the best care for pets.

You didn't mention if you have a quarantine tank. I would quarantine the new fish, while I attempt to prophylactically treat the tank for parasites and common diseases (snail and shrimp stay in quarantine, separate from new fish). Some medications might kill the beneficial bacteria, so I would research beforehand and be prepared with a precycled filter or inoculate (seed bacteria from a friend, bottled bacteria, pond mud, organic live compost). So, this means 2 quarantine setups.

If you don't have live plants or don't mind if they might be killed by the medication, I would skip quarantine and just treat the new fish in the display tank. I would place shrimp and snail in temporary homes, while new fish are being treated. Then, ensure medications are removed from the tank before adding them back in.

Good luck.

Edited September 24, 2023 by HelplessNewbie

[Miranda Marie]

On 9/24/2023 at 12:27 PM, HelplessNewbie said:

Sorry for the passing of your pet. I am only a few months into this hobby and experienced already a number of fish (and invertebrate) deaths. I can relate to wanting to know what caused them. No one wants their next pet to die of the same mysterious things.

I am starting to think that there are just some fish that can survive, and some that do not. It can be genetics, water parameters, stress, overfeeding, bullying or pathogens introduced. Some of this we can control to a certain degree. I don't know if I can truly eliminate pathogens. I recall someone posted in the forum that they focus their efforts more in improving immunity and well-being. That is starting to make sense to me. Or, maybe, I misinterpreted...

Anyway, I would try Option 3, a different fish... ultimately, I feel that my emotional state as a pet-keeper is most important. It makes me more effective as a human and allows me to give the best care for pets.

You didn't mention if you have a quarantine tank. I would quarantine the new fish, while I attempt to prophylactically treat the tank for parasites and common diseases (snail and shrimp stay in quarantine, separate from new fish). Some medications might kill the beneficial bacteria, so I would research beforehand and be prepared with a precycled filter or inoculate (seed bacteria from a friend, bottled bacteria, pond mud, organic live compost). So, this means 2 quarantine setups.

If you don't have live plants or don't mind if they might be killed by the medication, I would skip quarantine and just treat the new fish in the display tank. I would place shrimp and snail in temporary homes, while new fish are being treated.

Good luck.

I'd be more inclined to think it was just the fish not having what it takes to survive if I hadn't had her for 6 months before symptoms appeared. She was beautiful, active, healthy, and extremely responsive for the first 6 months, and then we had a sharp, sudden, and painful downward trend. The most confusing part of the whole thing is how *many* seemingly unrelated symptoms she had. Loss of scales in patches, dulling of colors, strange grey spots, white fungus, reddened gills, *extreme* weightloss, loss of control over swim bladder, and eventually, paralysis. I tried every meditation Aquarium Co-op sells over a 2 month period before she eventually became paralyzed and I euthanized her. It wasn't a sudden or unexpected death, and it didn't seem to be a condition she came to me in, but no amount of meditation helped. She declined regardless of treatment.

I've been in the hobby for around 6 years now, and I've lost plenty of fish, most of them without warning. They were just random one-off deaths that happened randomly overnight. Those are easier to handle or let go of, for me at least. I can chalk it up to age or genetics or just a poor immune system. It just feels wildly different to be able to *see* a fish is sick for months, to try everything available to me, and then still have to euthanize.

I do have a quarantine. Because it was just her in the tank, though, I medicated her in the 5 gallon. The shrimp and the snail didn't care about the meds in the least and are all healthy and happy since her passing. I do have crypts in there (a lot of them) but I didn't want to move her and cause more stress, so I risked the melt back and treated her in her home. The crypts are bouncing back fine.

The tank did experience a die back of beneficial bacteria, which is another reason I have been waiting the last month or so to even really think of what to add next. It's still re-cycling somewhat, so I'll be waiting to make a final decision until that's finished. All new fish do spend the first 2 weeks in quarantine (a clear tote I have) when they arrive.

[HelplessNewbie]

I haven't been able to bring myself to euthanize...I am sorry you had to. We only had 3 months with Polly, our betta, but we were very sad to see her go.