Bettabythedozen
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Posts posted by Bettabythedozen
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On 9/28/2023 at 10:47 PM, Fish Folk said:
You are on a learning curve. Here is what you'll likely discover: you can sell a bunch of these for awhile, 3-6 months from now. But unless you've mastered shipping and selling online, you'll be overrun . . . will have bought many small, or several large tanks to deal with your grow out issues, and that will pretty much have zeroed out your margin of profit. Angelfish are nice once in a while, but hundreds and hundreds can be very hard to move along. Additionally, the conditions they'll need to stay in will become rather brutally high in nitrates because of the volume of grow out juveniles. Once those fish hit the water of a LFS, they'll crash. Additionally, your brooders will continue to breed unless you prevent it. This is the learning curve for every angelfish breeder. Every. single. time. I've watched this story unfold a lot.
So, my recommendation is STOP the breeding until you can get a handle on the entire process, and have a very solid plan for everything from grow-outs to selling.
As for your question, you'll find that there will always be "runners" who grow faster than siblings. The danger they'll pose to juveniles whose fins have not opened up all the way is serious. "If it can fit in the mouth, it will eventually go in the mouth" applies to all fish. Always. But honestly, you can probably get away with it because of how small they are, and how non-agrgessive they are in a huge colony / school.
Here's the last of our Koi Angel fry just before we sold them off to our LFS. I was _so_ happy to be done with them...
Definitely keeping that in mind , also keeping in mind this is our FIRST TIME raising angelfish fry , but not fry in general! I just like to ask questions and do extensive research before doing anything, I have always been a worry wort especially when it comes to my animals! Most breeders reported a survival rate of only 30%… 80% for more experienced breeders. I’m definitely keeping odds in my favor! The last batch was of unknown genetics whereas this will be our first true line. I also have atleast 2-3 store fronts waiting, I’ve been personally selling and donating fish and entire tank set ups to the community for quite some time. I’m a teacher and set up tanks for other classrooms , I help maintain them and teach about animal care! I have dozens of local aquatic hobbyists waiting for babes and getting the licensing and registration to sell these guys for real!! I’ve worked with aquatic plants and live bearers then worked aquatic retail to get my name out in the community! I also have extensive experience shipping and have the capability to print labels from home with immediate pick up from postal services ! I appreciate the caution and it’s definitely something we’ve kept in mind , even leaving partial batches for the parents so they don’t go on full rampages after removing the eggs lol. Your fry are beautiful! I enjoy the process of raising , breeding and selling fish. I run an aquatic rehabilitation and rescue with over 20 active tanks in 2 locations !
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On 9/19/2023 at 10:41 PM, Fish Folk said:
My son made these videos a few years ago. Hope this info helps! Glad to answer any questions...
What do you think about raising 2 batches a week apart together? I just worry the older babies may go after the wigglers since they’re decent hunters but would love to be able to optimize space
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Most of my beta tanks are uncovered, I’ve only had one Betta jump who was sick and in quarantine. I try to keep the water level 3-4 inches lower than normal and add plants to the top of the tank for done coverage as a deterrent. Bettas will typically only jump to hunt or due to illness/ bad water parameters. You can train them to jump for treats , I’ve had plenty of trained jumpers do fantastic without a lid. It’s always a risk but if you’re home a lot to observe and drop the water it’s typically safe
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Oh absolutely, I have atleast 2 store locations waiting for my fry… I began getting my name out there just giving away livebearers so people knew I was reliable and trustworthy.
Currently out of work for 6 months , I have over 14 tanks set up currently with space for more and the capacity to do rack systems! Ive sold aquatics for years and have quite a few people in the community waiting ! Shipping is one thing I am apprehensive about but do have experience with and have the capabilities to ship from and print labels from home !
im also a teacher so I donate my old tanks and set up classrooms all the time with fully planted set ups and just do the maintenance for them monthly until they’re comfortable. I also have given many set ups and tanks to parents/members of the community and love educating on fish care!
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Thank you so much I tried a dash today , some definitely seemed interested while most were just hanging out lol !! Also I really appreciate all of your help and advice. It will really come in handy
I JUST rescued these angels dumped at petco, similar story to the parents of the first batch. If only people knew that “aggressive behavior” was them being preparing to be great parents! 5 days of being with me and we have eggs!
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You have been a godsend !! Thank you so much! Still think I should wait? I feel so bad not feeding them ! @AllFishNoBrakes 😂
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Just learned this ? Tried feeding and no one is eating , will do a decent water change! Thank you so much
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Thank you all so much for the help in getting our first successful batch of angels!!
I was wondering, when do you feed ? I have a FEW free swimmers out of hundreds, will they be okay waiting until the rest are free swimming? I do still see egg sack so I believe we just have some early bloomers 🤍
Live brine shrimp are ready , I also have Hikari first bites!
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Thank you so much for your response & reassurance!!
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On 9/21/2023 at 10:01 AM, Fish Folk said:
For me personally, I'd try not to put all of my "eggs in one basket" so to speak. There are risks both ways at this point. I'd probably just leave the fry in the 2.5 gal. Once they're wrigglers, they rarely succumb to normal egg fungus -- unless you have a heavy, heavy infestation. What I'm seeing is pretty standard. I do not feed wrigglers until they are free-swimming. I also do not give up on them / suck them out unless they clearly fungus over.
You can probably shake the remaining wrigglers off the leaf, and remove the leaf and white funguses-over eggs now.
Fry are tiny balls of complex chems / salts. They open up, and are pretty good at surviving from their yolk sacs for a day or more once free swimming.
You could try some one way, some another. But there seem to be concerns both ways. Unless I could really look at your set up, I wouldn't want to rule out the 2.5 gal setup. Honestly, that sounds like it might work fine. You'll learn that breeding is a bit of trial-and-error at first. Fortunately, you have a healthy pair of brooders. You'll have more eggs in a month or so. Experiment with this one and you'll be better prepared next time around. Angels spawn on slate pieces very readily. IF you're feeding them some live foods, and meaty offerings, the female will develop roe quickly again.
Question about feeding fry when they’re free swimming! We have our first swimmer lol, do you wait until most are hatched ? I also see egg sack still should I wait until the sack looks smaller ?
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I really do appreciate it ! Thank you so much for your help!
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On 9/21/2023 at 9:36 AM, Fish Folk said:
If I were doing new fry in a 29 gal, I’d be careful that they don’t die for lack of available food. But overfeeding can be deadly it’s a two-edged sword…
I get it , I just hate seeing such a fail rate in the 2.5 I’m concerned it’s not sterile enough. It has substrate aswell and didn’t think that was good for them whereas the 29 is bare bottom.
Do you think me making one of your tray set ups for the 29 would help , or would the tank change be a concern of shocking them. They get water from the 29 and the 29 has established water / media
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On 9/21/2023 at 9:28 AM, Fish Folk said:
Having done this a bunch of times, you can suck the white eggs off, nudging the fungussed eggs. You will be surprised how many fry survive.
I did try and got quite a few wigglers in the process. I’m trying the few wigglers in the 29 to see how they do , I would prefer them in the 29 as it’s a more sterile environment.. I understand feeding needs to be very intentional in that case to make sure all fry have an opportunity to hunt
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On 9/21/2023 at 8:21 AM, Fish Folk said:
Can you upload a video to YouTube and link here? Just trying to fully envision what you are concerned about.
For perspective… in the wild, tons of fry die. The strong survive. I always have some fry die-off. That’s normal. It is why egg layers spawn hundreds. Strategically, sometimes a few dozen is a great yield.
the one that have fallen are not moving or wiggling. The one that was wiggling that fell last night is absolutely gone. Im so apprehensive to let them go off of the leaf in this tank as it’s already proving to be risky! I don’t know how else to get them away from the fungus *I have tried removing the white eggs but they are too clustered together and formed to the leaf* I am harming more wigglers than the fuzzy eggs by trying! Can I add anything other than methalyne blue with wigglers ? I do not have MB & believe it is dangerous for humans !
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On 9/21/2023 at 7:20 AM, Fish Folk said:
I’d just use a syringe with an air line piece on the end to suck off the infertile / fungussed-over white eggs. Fry can do fine in a 2.5 gal. For weeks.
Those brown eggs will begin to wiggle. Then they’ll fall off the leaf. You’ll think they’re all dead, but WAIT FOR IT. They will turn into tiny free-swimmers up near the top. Don’t do anything radical.
You need proper food ready _after_ they begin to free-swim. What are you going to feed them?
I don’t have a YouTube account but here is a decent picture
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On 9/21/2023 at 7:20 AM, Fish Folk said:
I’d just use a syringe with an air line piece on the end to suck off the infertile / fungussed-over white eggs. Fry can do fine in a 2.5 gal. For weeks.
Those brown eggs will begin to wiggle. Then they’ll fall off the leaf. You’ll think they’re all dead, but WAIT FOR IT. They will turn into tiny free-swimmers up near the top. Don’t do anything radical.
You need proper food ready _after_ they begin to free-swim. What are you going to feed them?
I’m VERY apprehensive about the 2.5 a baby that fell of during cleaning died after falling to the sponge filter , it is white so it is definitely dead. The fungus is spreading. I cannot remove it with a syringe I even tried scraping. It is not a great method and is harming the viable babies. After seeing the one I knew broke free die I am even more worried about the 2.5.
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On 9/21/2023 at 7:20 AM, Fish Folk said:
I’d just use a syringe with an air line piece on the end to suck off the infertile / fungussed-over white eggs. Fry can do fine in a 2.5 gal. For weeks.
Those brown eggs will begin to wiggle. Then they’ll fall off the leaf. You’ll think they’re all dead, but WAIT FOR IT. They will turn into tiny free-swimmers up near the top. Don’t do anything radical.
You need proper food ready _after_ they begin to free-swim. What are you going to feed them?
I think there was some confusion. I posted about 20 hours after wiggling! Brine shrimp will be in today that’s the soonest I could get it. I do have Hikari first bites.
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On 9/20/2023 at 1:11 AM, AllFishNoBrakes said:
I also breed a fair amount of Angels. They’re my bread and butter when it comes to selling to the LFS for store credit.
I do first bites for a few days in the morning and night after they’ve absorbed their yolk sac. Then, first bites in the morning and baby brine shrimp at night. I hatch a tablespoon of eggs and freeze the majority of the hatch to use the following week. Live is great, but frozen works awesome too, in my opinion.
Then, I switch to crushed flake in the morning and baby brine shrimp at night. Then, Xtreme Nano in the morning and baby brine shrimp at night.
Hit me up if you have any questions! I also put together a pretty extensive thread of how I raise angels at one point on here. Seriously, send me a message if you need any help!! Happy to assist!
I found the link to the post I made!
Just sent you a message, hoping you could help! Thank you so much in advance
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On 9/19/2023 at 10:41 PM, Fish Folk said:
My son made these videos a few years ago. Hope this info helps! Glad to answer any questions...
I could really use your help, there are quite a few eggs turning white now … I’m planning to upgrade to a 29g but it’s not properly setup the way I like and has no tannins as of yet. I can add the 2.5g of water from the hatchery to help. Would it be worth the risk upgrading them ASAP to get them off the leaf. I don’t want them free swimming in the hatchery as it will be too hard to catch them all. We’ve never had success so I set up the 2.5 with subpar expectations. Would a water change do enough in the 2.5 to protect them , or should I risk it and slowly acclimate to the new tank
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Any warnings , lessons and tips would be greatly appreciated! This is our first successful batch of wigglers . They will be upgrading to a 29g temporary grow out. Bare bottom or thin sand layer ? I know prevention of biofilm and bacteria accumulation is essential so I planned on doing sand like I did for my Cory cats. Dark water and warmer parameters. I have Hikari first bites but was warned live is better , what do you feed your fry ? Any help or advice is greatly appreciated 🐠
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On 9/19/2023 at 1:00 PM, Fish Folk said:
Typically, black water does its own good work of acting as an anti-fungal. Just do not squirt the H2O2 directly onto the eggs. Only use ca. 0.5 ml. I only dose twice, once and then again after 12 hrs. I do add an ayirstone.
What species?
thank you so much! The tannins were a lesson learned from Cory fry! I believe they’re both hybrids, I got them as rescues while working at my LFS , their previous owner disliked their aggressive behaviors but misunderstood that it was just them right before breeding claiming territory. They both have koi genetics. Dad is veiltail koi/golden marble and momma is silver/koi with silver blue body and orange forehead! I’m not the best at identifying angel species quite yet so these are guesses!
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On 9/19/2023 at 12:06 PM, Fish Folk said:
No water changes. Much depends on how exactly you are set up. We float hatching trays in larger tanks.
Thank you so much for your response. They laid on a leaf so the leaf is placed in a 2.5g black water cycled aquarium with heater , sponge filter and catappa leaves. I did one dose of the peroxide. We’ve only had 15or so eggs go white out of a few hundred but I’d prefer to keep as many healthy as possible! Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.
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On 1/6/2021 at 8:35 AM, Fish Folk said:
We use H2O2 on some eggs - rams, angelfish, Acara, corydoras. Our “rule of thumb” is 1 ml. / per 1 gal. Since we use 1/2 gal. specimen containers, we use 1/2 ml. We dose ever 12 hrs for 3x doses. We do not spray directly on eggs, but just into the water allowing the airstone to spread. We have overdosed once or twice. We use over-the-counter 3% H2O2. Also, we are starting to add one thumbnail sized piece of Catappa leaf and one or two alder cones to cost tan is and fight off fungus. We know a few breeders who actually stick a neocaridina shrimp into their egg container because they eat unfertilized eggs.
Do you do water changes inbetween the doses ? I’m apprehensive to add another dose of it needs to be removed.
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Raising Angelfish Fry
in Fish Breeding
Posted
We have 1 batch of 1 week old free swimmers and one batch of wigglers, I typically raise Corydoras so I’m used to more docile fry , the angels are definitely little hunters so I appreciate your experience with their personalities!
I even offered to let another hobbyist raise eggs if they laid again since their last batch was eaten by the parents. I definitely wanted higher odds being that I’m so new to raising these guys but am aware of risks of overcrowding… I always have an empty 220 I could use the excuse of setting up 😂