Merrick Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 Hoping I wasn’t going to have to post here, but just lost 6 of my 7 cardinal tetras today and the 7th is likely terminal and not sure on my next steps. A little bummed about the die-off as its suddenness was unexpected. As I am not sure what data is helpful, so I have included water params and significant events as it is a new tank. Tanks is a 20 long planted tank with following water params pH: running 7.4-7.6 Nitrates: 10-30 ppm Hardness: 10-12dgh Nitrite: 0 Ammonia: 0 KH/Buffer: 8-10dkh Water Temperature: 76F I have been running weekly checks of the above water params with a liquid kit. After I added the fish I added daily checks with Co-Op test strips and there were no elevated levels of ammonia or nitrites and the other values, excluding Nitrates, remained the same as well. Nitrate levels did vary a bit due to fertilizer additions and plant consumption. In terms of timeline and significant events I had the following: Mid-February set up tank with hardscape, eco-complete, Fluval 30 filter tweaked with course sponge and no carbon, heater, Stingray on a timer, and a small sponge filter with air stone. 1 March added Crypt Wendetti and Parva, Java Moss, Scarlet Temple, plus Water Sprite from the Co-Op. All but the moss died back (USPS took 8 days to deliver), but everything except the Scarlet Temple had started growing well. Water params were "good" and have been using Easy Green and a little Easy Iron. 26 March added seven Cardinal Tetras from a LFS (only fish in the tank) 29 March added some additional Water Sprite to replace the Scarlet Temple which never recovered. The new Water Sprite was and is growing very well. 3 April I noticed some spots that I took to be Ich on all the Tetras (pics attached), moved them to a 5 gallon hospital tank, and used the sponge filter from the 20 long. Temp was kept at 78F. 4 April realized I had accidentally under-dosed Ich-X (0.25ml v 2.5ml) and corrected to proper dose plus started daily 30% water changes followed by re-dosing. 4 April to 6 April fish seemed to be OK, other than spots, and were eating an alternating mix of fry food and frozen Daphnia. All fish appeared energetic and water params were consistent with main tank 7 April returned home from work and 6 of 7 tetras were dead with 7th appearing unlikely to survive. Did add some Maracyn for remaining fish as dead fish seemed to have some possible fin rot that I had not noticed while they were alive. My questions are: Did I miss diagnose (or miss treat Ich), was it Epistylis, or something else? The rapidity of death, fatality rate, and simultaneous nature seem odd. The following day after I had pulled the fish from the main tank I noticed some odd white growths (1-2mm and look like small white pills of cotton) on the moss and hair algae in the tank (pic attached). Curious what folk’s thoughts are on that? Other than being time coincident may be completely unrelated, but wanted to ask. Are my water parameters just too far outside of a Tetras required range? I had hoped to get a mix of Cardinal and Rummy-nose Tetras plus some Amano shrimp for the tank, but not sure on how to proceed at this stage as I don’t know what killed the Tetras I had. Thanks for any help or guidance, Merrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn T Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 What you show on the fish, I would've pegged instantly as Ich. But on the moss and decorations? I've never seen ich show up ANYWHERE but on the fish. Even in pet store tanks. Are you sure the white spots on the decorations/plants isn't the Maracyn. I noticed it looks like that until it dissolves. If that's not it, I'll be curious to see what other responses you get as to what might be going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmiller2001 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 My guess is Epistylis. It shows up when fish have an internal bacterial infection. Usually columnaris, orally treating with Kanaplex works well. Did any spots show up on their eyes? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 No spots on the eyes that I had noticed. How quickly does Epistylis/columnaris progress? Look like the cause if death had a 100% mortality rate and they all died within 8-12 hours of the first death. The big challenge I had was trying to differentiate between Ich and Epistylis. Ended up landing on the side of Ich and was apparently and clearly wrong. Any good tricks to the trade to tell them apart or when in doubt do you just treat for both? Dawn, WRT to white spots in the main tank after the fish were removed wonder if it is some of the Fry food decomposing. Thanks for the responses and thoughts I do appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmiller2001 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 6 hours ago, Merrick said: No spots on the eyes that I had noticed. How quickly does Epistylis/columnaris progress? Look like the cause if death had a 100% mortality rate and they all died within 8-12 hours of the first death. The big challenge I had was trying to differentiate between Ich and Epistylis. Ended up landing on the side of Ich and was apparently and clearly wrong. Any good tricks to the trade to tell them apart or when in doubt do you just treat for both? Dawn, WRT to white spots in the main tank after the fish were removed wonder if it is some of the Fry food decomposing. Thanks for the responses and thoughts I do appreciate it. The biggest indicator is that they die. Read this article. https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/10-2-4-epistylis/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick Posted April 9, 2021 Author Share Posted April 9, 2021 Thanks. I had attributed the disease to Ich since there were no spots on the eyes and the spots seemed pure white. Suspect moving forward I will treat for Epistylis first as death appears to occur much sooner compared to Ich. WRT the spots for Ich are they truly flush on the fish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmiller2001 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 If the spots are more 3D, I'd question ich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick Posted April 9, 2021 Author Share Posted April 9, 2021 Thanks! Appreciate all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmiller2001 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 19 minutes ago, Merrick said: Thanks! Appreciate all the help. Any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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