I killed my tank!😢

[Rhonda]

My tank was finally doing well, algae under control, fish and snails happily living together, perfect water chemistry....so I decided to try adding co2 to get some better plant growth.  I also added some plants that grow better with Co2.  I watched several videos and read articles about Co2, pros/cons and set up.  I bought the Ista professional system, with solenoid and timer.  Set it up on Monday, it worked fine, turned off overnight, Tuesday and Wednesday, Co2 levels were good, it turned off overnight.  Thursday morning I left for work and it was at about 1 bubble every 3-4 seconds and microbubbles had started to come in. I left for work, all was well.  I got home that evening, went to greet my fish and they were all dead, and my snails were not doing so hot.  Co2 tank was empty and the indicators were yellow.  I feel horrible that I upset my tank balance and killed my finned friends!!  What did I do wrong?!?  My snails recovered and are back in that tank.  I really want to learn from this mistake so any insight on what may have happened would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Daniel]

Sometimes when you get to bottom of a CO2 tank the last part will all whoosh out at once. If this is what happened, then it would have suffocated your fish. This also would account for the CO2 tank being empty. Better quality regulators can guard against this.

[Frank]

A new setup should not have emptied the bottle so soon. Did you check for leaks? Also, I would not expect any company's top line regulator to allow dumping to happen. It's either defective, or of poor quality.

[Rhonda]

21 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Sometimes when you get to bottom of a CO2 tank the last part will all whoosh out at once. If this is what happened, then it would have suffocated your fish. This also would account for the CO2 tank being empty. Better quality regulators can guard against this.

Thanks Daniel,

I had read about the Co2 dumps that happen with a lot of the disposable systems which is why I bought the one with the regulator and timer.  The reviews I saw about the Ista system were good, I am wondering if I have a bad regulator.  It was a 1 liter tank at a really slow infusion rate - do you think it would have already emptied?  I don't know how long a tank should last.

[Rhonda]

5 minutes ago, Frank said:

A new setup should not have emptied the bottle so soon. Did you check for leaks? Also, I would not expect any company's top line regulator to allow dumping to happen. It's either defective, or of poor quality.

Thanks Frank.  I sent an email to the customer service department to see if I can get a new regulator.  Maybe it is a poor quality system.  If there was a leak, I would expect that it wouldn't have dumped into the tank.  Do you know how to test the regulator?  I'm going to get the Co2 tank re-filled today and test it on just my planted tank.  My snails are living in my other tank for now.

[Frank]

1 minute ago, Rhonda said:

Thanks Frank.  I sent an email to the customer service department to see if I can get a new regulator.  Maybe it is a poor quality system.  If there was a leak, I would expect that it wouldn't have dumped into the tank.  Do you know how to test the regulator?  I'm going to get the Co2 tank re-filled today and test it on just my planted tank.  My snails are living in my other tank for now.

I meant that, if there was a leak, the bottle could get low enough that a bad regulator would dump the remaining gas.

[Mmiller2001]

Return the regulator and spend a few extra dollars on a better quality regulator.

[anewbie]

You didn't provide the model number of your regulator so folks are making a lot of assumptions. Rather than make assumptions it would be better if you provide the model number and type of canister you used. Obviously the regulator dumped a lot of co2 into the tank but without more details folks can only make baseless speculations as to why it happened.

[Mmiller2001]

6 minutes ago, anewbie said:

You didn't provide the model number of your regulator so folks are making a lot of assumptions. Rather than make assumptions it would be better if you provide the model number and type of canister you used. Obviously the regulator dumped a lot of co2 into the tank but without more details folks can only make baseless speculations as to why it happened.

Baseless? Cheap regulators and single stage regulators are notorious for doing this. Also ISTA, an overseas company is well known for it's cheap products.

[Frank]

31 minutes ago, anewbie said:

You didn't provide the model number of your regulator so folks are making a lot of assumptions. Rather than make assumptions it would be better if you provide the model number and type of canister you used. Obviously the regulator dumped a lot of co2 into the tank but without more details folks can only make baseless speculations as to why it happened.

Here's the regulator:  

http://www.istaproducts.com/product/co2-controller-vertical/

[anewbie]

8 minutes ago, Mmiller2001 said:

Baseless? Cheap regulators and single stage regulators are notorious for doing this. Also ISTA, an overseas company is well known for it's cheap products.

CO2ART is also an overseas company and most are quite happy with their regulators; having said that I am finding amazing lack of reviews on the ISTA regulator so i'm not sure about the well known part. If it is a single stage regulator than that would be  a red flag as one should always use a dual stage regulator. Also it appears (though they provide an amazing lack of details on their website which in itself is a red flag) that it has a custom mount that requires you to use their co2 canister. if that is actually the case that would also be a huge red flag.

[Mmiller2001]

6 minutes ago, anewbie said:

CO2ART is also an overseas company and most are quite happy with their regulators; having said that I am finding amazing lack of reviews on the ISTA regulator so i'm not sure about the well known part. If it is a single stage regulator than that would be  a red flag as one should always use a dual stage regulator. Also it appears (though they provide an amazing lack of details on their website which in itself is a red flag) that it has a custom mount that requires you to use their co2 canister. if that is actually the case that would also be a huge red flag.

I have all CO2Art regulators. I was being nice in using the "overseas" language. But screw it, chinese goods are mostly crap.

[Jungle Fan]

It happened to me once when I first started messing with regulators with one of the old single stage Milwaukee CO2 regulators; it's the reason why I now don't recommend any of the small paintball CO2 regulator systems, single stage regulators, or El Cheapo systems of unknown manufacture,  with no, or dubious warranties. I still remember how upset I was over losing my prized fish, some that were pets really and long term friends. Back then I was just trying to save a few bucks, in hindsight losing my fish cost me a lot more dearly than if I had put the couple of extra bucks aside and waited a few more months

With both Green Leaf Aquariums, and CO2Art  I have never heard about end of tank dump occurring, and I know Green Leaf Aquariums from personal experience with customer service and their lifetime warranty. With anything that has a needle valve it is likely that one might need to make use of warranty sooner, or later and I'd rather it be here in the U.S. when I do need it than overseas. That said CO2Art also has quality dual stage regulators and as a German company that worries about its hard earned reputation not just here in the U.S. but Germany as well they would be my second choice for a reliable regulator.

 

[Cory]

6 minutes ago, Mmiller2001 said:

I have all CO2Art regulators. I was being nice in using the "overseas" language. But screw it, chinese goods are mostly crap.

You're very close to the line here. If you keep this attitude up, I'll be forced to remove you.

[Mmiller2001]

5 minutes ago, Cory said:

You're very close to the line here. If you keep this attitude up, I'll be forced to remove you.

Wouldn't a private message be better? 

[Eric R]

Sorry to hear about your fish. Another thing that can help protect against excess co2 ending up in the tank is to use a ph controller as a safe guard. If the ph drops too low in the tank, the controller can shut off the solenoid and stop the flow of co2. However, it's probably better to use the money you would spend on a decent ph controller and instead get a nicer two stage co2 regulator. The safest are true two stage regulators, not just the single stage with dual gauges. Best of luck with your future co2 endeavors, hopefully it won't happen again!

[Fish Folk]

Coming at this with no proper CO2 setup, so .... maybe just a shot in the dark here: have you tested your pH? Before and after? What can happen with CO2 is that it chips away at your water buffer, then crashes the tank pH. We watched the old-school method of filling inverted bottles daily, and allowing that to diffuse naturally. We found that an inverted 50 ml turbidity column would diffuse over a 12 hr photo period perfectly for a 29 gal. aquarium. It was clear, stayed quietly in a back corner, and we never had the problems of any CO2 tank / regulator malfunctions. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Fish Folk

[CT_]

Thank you for the heads up on regular failure and I'm really sorry about your fish!

 

I had no idea dumping co2 was a problem with some regulators.  At work they always just work.  I guess that's why we pay 500$ each.

[Fishdude]

I'm so sorry Rhonda, that sucks! I hope you get it figured out soon. Those big losses are the worst - a friend of mine accidentally gassed a large group of his fish too and he was so bummed.

[anewbie]

11 hours ago, Fish Folk said:

Coming at this with no proper CO2 setup, so .... maybe just a shot in the dark here: have you tested your pH? Before and after? What can happen with CO2 is that it chips away at your water buffer, then crashes the tank pH. We watched the old-school method of filling inverted bottles daily, and allowing that to diffuse naturally. We found that an inverted 50 ml turbidity column would diffuse over a 12 hr photo period perfectly for a 29 gal. aquarium. It was clear, stayed quietly in a back corner, and we never had the problems of any CO2 tank / regulator malfunctions. 

I'm not sure this is the case - CO2 will change the ph but not the acidity or buffer of the water. Also the op noted that her co2 indicator went yellow. There is no doubt (I think) that an excess of co2 was dumped into the tank and the fishes suffocated. The question is why - the regulator could have simply failed in some fashion - if single stage and the canister wasn't full or there was a leak it could have been some sort of end of tank dump - maybe something else i am missing.

--

I've been using the co2art se regulators (i think they are around $150) and you can usually find a discount coupon from 10% to 30% if you poke around. I can't say everyone has a good experience with them or they are totally bullet proof but i've not had any issues and the company does provide decent support (answers questions quickly).

---

Ok I did a bit more reading and I think i used the wrong term - the reason ph drop in a hi-tech tank doesn't harm the fish (due to ph change) is that hardness is remains stable. Normally ph change is associated with a change in kh and that is what is harmful to fishes. I was going to post a link to the chemistry of it but I'm not sure if that is helpful. Sorry about the misuse of terminology. The key thing is that ph change associated with co2 doesn't harm the fishes but of course change in oxygen level is important.

Edited April 4, 2021 by anewbie

[Fish Folk]

15 minutes ago, anewbie said:

CO2 will change the ph but not the acidity or buffer of the water.

I’m sure your theory on the cause of this sad situation is correct; however, I think it’s worth looking into what affect dosing CO2 has on pH. Change in pH _is_ change in acidity, which is forestalled by the degree of hardness (buffer) dissolved in the water. So, soft water is low in buffer. That makes it susceptible to rapid drops in pH. If too much CO2 is added, a pH crash can occur. 

[anewbie]

1 minute ago, Fish Folk said:

I’m sure your theory on the cause of this sad situation is correct; however, I think it’s worth looking into what affect dosing CO2 has on pH. Change in pH _is_ change in acidity, which is forestalled by the degree of hardness (buffer) dissolved in the water. So, soft water is low in buffer. That makes it susceptible to rapid drops in pH. If too much CO2 is added, a pH crash can occur. 

No. It isn't that simple. CO2 will lower the ph - the typical expected drop is around .6 to 1.0 (1.0 is consider the max that is safe for the fish). Btw if you were to lower the ph by dumping acid to drop the ph by 1 you would likely kill the fish but when you put in co2 your not really changing the chemistry (I've forgotten the details of what is happening here but I had a similar concern when i switched to hi-tech tanks and studied the issue and confirmed that co2 will lower the ph you measure but not change the chemistry). 

[Koi]

Anything acidic (like co2) will lower kh over timer. Even plants sometime will utilize the carbonates.

[Fish Folk]

33 minutes ago, anewbie said:

No. It isn't that simple. CO2 will lower the ph - the typical expected drop is around .6 to 1.0 (1.0 is consider the max that is safe for the fish). Btw if you were to lower the ph by dumping acid to drop the ph by 1 you would likely kill the fish but when you put in co2 your not really changing the chemistry (I've forgotten the details of what is happening here but I had a similar concern when i switched to hi-tech tanks and studied the issue and confirmed that co2 will lower the ph you measure but not change the chemistry). 

I think we aren’t necessarily saying opposite things. Gentle addition of CO2 will cause pH to “dip” and return — to fluctuate. From daylight to nighttime, there is a normal variance. However, what I’m suggesting is that if KH is _low_ to begin with — or lowered over time, then that elasticity with pH is worn out, and the tank does not recover, but just drops off. I doubt that’s what happened here. It seems like a regulator issue is to blame here. But with our soft water, we’ve observed crashing with CO2 — a 2 pt pH drop with no recovery. 

[Kirsten]

Just gotta say I'm so sorry this happened to you. This is so heartbreaking and one of the many stories that will probably keep me from ever trying co2 injection. I'll just keep breathing heavily near my air pumps!