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They're all gone.


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Today I lost all but six of the fish in my 12 gallon tank. All 15 green neons went literally belly-up within 3 minutes as I watched in horror. I'm also missing one of my three dwarf chain loaches. So that's 16 of 22 of my treasured fish.

Here's what happened. 

I purchased three sword plants from an online seller that I've bought from many times. They were the usual gloriously beautiful and healthy plants I've come to expect from this seller. Regardless of that, I'm still not stupid enough to not wash the plants, which I do by cleaning them under running water, trimming any questionable leaves and roots, then letting them soak in clean water. I didn't use any cleaning products, just water.

I really don't think the plants were the culprit.

Before planting them, I pulled up all the plants they were replacing, then did a thorough tank cleaning/water change. I did a gravel vac, removed about 2/3 of the water, and cleaned the HOB filter in the used tank water as always. I then planted the new plants and added some old Eco Complete to cover the roots*. All fish were lively as I cleaned, and curious about the new plants.

* (This was extra substrate that had been rinsed a few months ago but not used. It was sealed in a ziplock bag with most of the air pressed out. It may be important to note that it's not the same substrate used in the rest of that tank--Fluval Stratum.)

Then I refilled about seven of the eight displaced gallons with tap water (which I always use) with my python hose. (At this point, the fish were still okay, playing in the incoming water stream.) I could not immediately access my dechlorinator during the refilling (it was in a bathroom that was in use), but I thought "What the heck, I remember a YouTuber saying he doesn't put in the dechlorinator until after a refill and he doesn't have any problem." I mean, it was only about seven gallons ...

Then the horror ensued. I turned off the tap and when I came back in the room, I discovered one green neon swimming upside down then another then six then ten then all of them. I immediately retrieved the dechlorinator and added it to the water. There were about five of the neons still twitching, which I gathered as quickly as I could and ran them to my very clean plant grow-out tank. They didn't make it either.

I'm just heartbroken. I've had those beautiful little things for about 10 months, never losing one of them. I got them through a stubborn bout of ich, made drastic changes to the aquascape in their tank, and they were not bothered by the cyanobacteria outbreak last month that cleared up quickly with the use of a UV sterilizer.

I don't know if the old substrate could have been tainted or moldy. It looks and smells fine. In total I only used about 1/2 cup of it. If it wasn't that, could it have been the chlorine? Neither the dead fish or the survivors (two dwarf chain loaches and four honey gouramis) look to have red gills.

Poor little things. I haven't flushed them yet and some of them are still bright colored and their eyes are still lit blue.

This morning I was excited to add my new plants to fill out the blank areas of that aquarium. Now I just wast to break it down.

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I'm so sorry for your loss.  Based on a quick Google search, my initial thought is chlorine in the tap water.  Levels can vary from district to district and can even change over time.  Green neons are very small so maybe they succumb more quickly?

That said, I can't be sure that it was chlorine toxicity.  I think that your hunch that is something introduced to the tank is spot on.  Especially since it was so fast. 

I can imagine your horror.  But, I've also read that small water changes are ok without a dechlorinator, so please don't beat yourself up.  Even if it was chlorine, you thought you would be ok based on the information you had.  Please don't give up!  You sound like a thoughtful and caring fish-keeper.  

 

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Sad to read this, the thing with small aquariums like those is that a huge change in parameters can happen more easily, and dangerous substances can become way more lethal due to a higher concentration because of the small quantity of water... big tanks have the ability to dilute stuff more. Even if it was only seven gallons, in a 12 gallon tank that's a whole lot of change, over 50% water change in one go, and if you take in consideration that the substrate and decorations might take the volume of 1 gallon of water, you're left with maybe 10-11g only, and changing 8 gets closer to even 70-80% :(. Have you ever done such a big water change before, or was this the first time?

Lots of things could have happened :(. Perhaps water had different pH suddendly? Or maybe big change in temperature? Maybe even an ammonia spike from pulling out plants from the substrate or from the ziplocked, wet substrate? If I remember correctly you don't rinse either Eco Complete or Stratum, maybe a dangerous compound got created by rinsing it and storing it wet for months? Maybe Cory can analyze the situation. Something definitely shocked the fish too hard to be able to kill them that quickly and in that volume. As I said, even the smallest changes can unchain a torrent of problems in small aquariums.

May them fishies rest in peace and swim in the big lake in the sky. I'm sure you gave them a great life, it was a honest mistake and we all learn from it.

I am too paranoid about this, I have several sterilite containers for water changes, and I do this with all my tanks. I place the water first in the sterilite, then add conditioner, swish around for a bit, then I add it to the aquarium, it also lets mee examine (even smell) the water first before putting it in my aquarium, my water plant likes to do random mantenance, and sometimes the water comes out brownish and nasty for a split second after opening the valve.

Again, so sorry 😞

Edited by HenryC
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Sounds like chlorine.

Like @HenryC I age my water first because 'raw' water is just that, raw. It is good to let the new water settle and let gas exchange happen before it goes into an aquarium.

I know this feels hard right now especially if it is not clear that anything has been learned yet, but learning always seems hard (painful). The communication of your experience helps everyone in the long run.

Edited by Daniel
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I had something similar happen to my first batch of axolotl babies. I had dechlorinated and even aged the water, but somehow it shocked all of them and they died in minutes.

I suspect either the substrate or water. I think I remember someone saying that certain municipalities will add a super dose of chlorine to their water before the cooler seasons. I am curious if you are in an area that freezes/gets real cold in the winter? I would need to look up more but that might be it. Thats also a very big water change so anything "bad" in the water would have gotten them quickly, and ypu would not have known to add extra dechlorinater (but don't feel like it was your fault- you can't predict when municipalities will add stuff to the water.) That is a small enough tank that you could consider buying gallons of RO water like Glacier from a grocery store or something for a few bucks.

I also wonder if the water change stirred up some ammonia in the new substrate? But it seemed like you knew what was going on in that aspect, which makes me suspect the water.

Very tough loss. It will always make you want to quit. Just do what feels right- if you need a break, do so. I encourage you to keep going!

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9 hours ago, HenryC said:

Sad to read this, the thing with small aquariums like those is that a huge change in parameters can happen more easily, and dangerous substances can become way more lethal due to a higher concentration because of the small quantity of water... big tanks have the ability to dilute stuff more. Even if it was only seven gallons, in a 12 gallon tank that's a whole lot of change, over 50% water change in one go, and if you take in consideration that the substrate and decorations might take the volume of 1 gallon of water, you're left with maybe 10-11g only, and changing 8 gets closer to even 70-80% :(. Have you ever done such a big water change before, or was this the first time?

Lots of things could have happened :(. Perhaps water had different pH suddendly? Or maybe big change in temperature? Maybe even an ammonia spike from pulling out plants from the substrate or from the ziplocked, wet substrate? If I remember correctly you don't rinse either Eco Complete or Stratum, maybe a dangerous compound got created by rinsing it and storing it wet for months? Maybe Cory can analyze the situation. Something definitely shocked the fish too hard to be able to kill them that quickly and in that volume. As I said, even the smallest changes can unchain a torrent of problems in small aquariums.

May them fishies rest in peace and swim in the big lake in the sky. I'm sure you gave them a great life, it was a honest mistake and we all learn from it.

I am too paranoid about this, I have several sterilite containers for water changes, and I do this with all my tanks. I place the water first in the sterilite, then add conditioner, swish around for a bit, then I add it to the aquarium, it also lets mee examine (even smell) the water first before putting it in my aquarium, my water plant likes to do random mantenance, and sometimes the water comes out brownish and nasty for a split second after opening the valve.

Again, so sorry 😞

Gasp! You do have to rinse Stratum, but not Eco Complete! Now I remember why it was in a ziploc.

Months ago it was being used in a tank I was cycling. The Mopani driftwood in the tank kept getting that white fungus. I know that's normal, but it was extreme, like an inch thick. I kept removing it and scrubbing it clean, but it kept happening. I finally broke down the entire tank and soaked the wood in bleach water for about a month until it finally stopped stinking and getting the fungus. Then I let it soak a couple more weeks in clean water. Also, when I broke down that tank, I drained the Eco Complete and put it in the ziploc to be used for some other project. That stuff is expensive! I didn't reuse it on that tank rebuild because of the negative association. I changed to Stratum. So that Eco Complete was only drained (not rinsed) when it came from that fungus-tainted water months ago. It just never occurred to me that it could be a problem.

<<Forehead slap!>>

I don't know if that alone was it, or if adding the still-chlorinated water created a perfect storm.

I had thought green neons were sensitive, but these guys had come through so much unscathed, I just took for granted their toughness.

BTW, the third dwarf chain loach showed up, so that means the only fish affected were the green neons. Man, that hurts. Those poor little things. I'm so going to miss their schooling, the loaches chasing each other through that beautiful blue cloud.

Thank you so much to everyone who responded to this post. Even though it was a tragedy, I hope it maybe helps someone else before they make the same mistake.

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I really don't think you need to look at anything other than doing an almost complete water change without dosing it 1st. Even just regular chlorinated water could have burned the neons gills and caused them to perish, but sometimes the water company adds extra chlorine or even ammonia to remedy some issues with their system.  They generally don't even tell you as the amount is well within what is safe for humans, but well over what kills delicate tropical fish. 

My best practice for water changes is always add the dose of water conditioner for the size of the tank (not just how much water you removed) before adding any water back in. It's not going to hurt the fish if you dose the remaining water before adding the new water, but many people find out that even though it's "usually" okay to add the conditioner after.... sometimes it's catastrophic. Better safe than sorry, always go with the safest method. 

I usually recommend having "seasoned" water available for water changes if you have small tanks or saltwater tanks.  By seasoned, I just mean clean fresh water that's been treated / mixed and off gassed already. I don't personally do this as it's kinda overkill and my tanks are so big I'd need like a 1000 gallon container. 

Hopefully you have better success in the future and happy fish keeping. 

Edited by Mr. Ed's Aquatics
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Thanks Mr. Ed. I've always filled that tank with the python, but I've always treated the tank water first, as you said. I don't usually change that much water at one time, so I would think that played into it as well. I always refill my other aquariums using a one gallon jug that gets treated one gallon at a time. This particular aquarium sits up high and I have to use a ladder to work on it, so the python is more practical for refilling--and helps me not put off tank cleaning.

Well, I could "if only I had" myself for days, but those remaining fish and my other tanks need tending. I had a great experience with the green neons and I won't hesitate to keep them in the future.

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You may also test your ph before and after the fluval stratum if you haven't yet. My tap water comes out at 8.4 and after the stratum drops to 7.4 so I age the water in a bucket with some stratum in it before water changes. The combination of the chlorine and a ph change could have made things worse. 

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I checked and my water has chloramine added. After some google searching, I learned that chloramine is a product of adding ammonia to chlorine! I also read that dechlorinator must be added to the water before adding that water to the aquarium to avoid chloramine-related fish harm and death.

I sure wish that specific ammonia + chlorine = chloramine info was included prominently in basic beginner-level videos. I've watched so many videos where the wonders of the "Python No Spill Clean and Fill Aquarium System" were touted with no specific reference to the dangers of not adding dechlorinator to the tank first.

I would love to see a video that addresses that danger specifically and maybe lists popular beginner-level fish that are more susceptible to it.

If I only had one aquarium (stop laughing), losing those fish may have been enough to make me quit the hobby.

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Thanks for the compliment! I would love to have the green neons again, but they're SO expensive! My LFS doesn't carry them and will only order them if I'll buy (I think they said) like 50. I have 9 ember tetras in another tank, and their bright orange would look great with the gold honey gouramis and b&w chain loaches. Unfortunately, they are shoaling instead of schooling fish. The schooling made the green neons look amazing. I'll have to think about it.

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There is one more factor to be considered with ‘raw’ tap water beyond chlorine and other disinfectants.

Yesterday while leak testing the 1930s Historically Accurate Planted Aquarium I happened to measure the dissolved oxygen content of my tap water (we have a well, so chlorination is not an issue).

20200910_5516.JPG.218a528f67e9b5660c23f0aadf438970.JPG

I measured 0.7 ppm. That is well below the 2 ppm which the lower limit for supporting fish life. Typically my dissolved oxygen runs at about 10 ppm and after a day or two the tap water restores to that level during aging.

20200910_5517.JPG.698efde5d42a0bd23fe73c83161a0179.JPG

Perhaps this is one of the benefits of aging your tap water prior to adding it in to your aquarium?

 

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5 hours ago, Ben Ellison said:

By green neon are your talking about the glofish? I believe that to be the case and I'm pretty certain aqua human carries them. I have placed a order or two with them with complete success. They also seem to be the only site I've found that has a reasonable sale price and shipping.

 

I've bought from Aqua Huna before and they are indeed outstanding! Green neons (paracheirodon simulans) are not glow fish. They are a distinct type of tetra. They look like a regular neon tetra, but they're smaller (mine were about 1/2 to 3/4 inches) and the red stripe on their belly is kind of dull, making the blue appear a bit more greenish. And from a distance, they can have the effect of glowing cobalt blue. I paid about $5 each, which adds up when you purchase 15 of them!

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