German Ram and Apistogramma

[BenA]

I will be grateful for your real life experience and advise.

I want to add German Rams and/or Apistogrammas to my 110gl tank, however, the advice that I get differs from one place to the other.

Water:  My water is PH 8, KH 8 GH 16.

Some shops tell me that the fish will be ok as they are commercially bread and are used to these parameters, other say not to do it as these are soft/neutral PH fish. Also, all internet resources and books support the latter advice. So, who is right (I don't buy wild caught fish as a principal)?

Computability:  Will the two live in peace together? Will they live with the Corrys? The other fish are White Cloud Minnow, Emperor Tetra, Neon Rasbora, Threadfin Rainbow fish, Celebes Rainbow fish and Oto. Still looking to add Forktail Blue Rye Rainbow, Neon Rainbow and Bosmans Rainbow.

Thank you.

[Fish Folk]

3 hours ago, BenA said:

I will be grateful for your real life experience and advise.

I want to add German Rams and/or Apistogrammas to my 110gl tank, however, the advice that I get differs from one place to the other.

Water:  My water is PH 8, KH 8 GH 16.

Some shops tell me that the fish will be ok as they are commercially bread and are used to these parameters, other say not to do it as these are soft/neutral PH fish. Also, all internet resources and books support the latter advice. So, who is right (I don't buy wild caught fish as a principal)?

Computability:  Will the two live in peace together? Will they live with the Corrys? The other fish are White Cloud Minnow, Emperor Tetra, Neon Rasbora, Threadfin Rainbow fish, Celebes Rainbow fish and Oto. Still looking to add Forktail Blue Rye Rainbow, Neon Rainbow and Bosmans Rainbow.

Thank you.

Great questions! First off, German Blue Rams and Apistogrammas are our very favorite dwarf Cichlids. We've been successful breeding a lot of Rams, and someday hope to find success with Apistos. 

A 110 gal aquarium is large. Is it a long tank, or a tall / deep 110? They normally are happy in a much smaller setup -- 20 gal. aquarium, for example.

As for you water parameters, If your LFS carries them, and has water parameters similar to you, that's the best first place to start off with. If Rams and Apistos do well for them, and they're not using an RO/DI water source, you will probably be fine. 

However, you may need to treat your water if not. One thing to look into is an RO/DI Unit for your home. It may sound expensive, but it can be really helpful. You can turn it on and off, yielding a mixture of your straight tap with RO water. For about $150, you can get water that will be able to be mixed to any parameters you really need. 

Another thing you can try is putting new wood in your tank. It will leach tannins like crazy and turn the water a tea-color. Add Lightly boiled oak leaves as well (we usually place them under rocks to keep them on bottom). That combination will acidify your water. 

There are other experiments you can try. Use amounts of Vinegar / per gallon to acidify your water. Or, try floating Rooibos Tea bags in water for 24 hrs to leech tannins and tint your water. None of which is really likely to help out with such a huge volume of water as a 110 gal. If it were me, I think I'd go hog wild with Rainbowfish! Mature Bosemani males are so gorgeous . . . 

[Fish Folk]

3 hours ago, BenA said:

Computability:  Will the two live in peace together? Will they live with the Corrys? The other fish are White Cloud Minnow, Emperor Tetra, Neon Rasbora, Threadfin Rainbow fish, Celebes Rainbow fish and Oto. Still looking to add Forktail Blue Rye Rainbow, Neon Rainbow and Bosmans Rainbow.

As for this second question, yes, they can live peacefully together -- particularly with such a large tank space. We've housed 60+ German Blue Rams in on 55 gal before when breeding and growing them out to maturity. Our water is soft, and the pH fluctuates from 7.8 down to 7.0 and can quickly crash to 6.0 and lower if too much humid acid builds up from alder cones, catappa leaves, etc. 

It is important to remember though, that cichlids act differently from tetras and rainbowfish. Even these Dwarf Cichlids can be bossy and intense.  

[Biotope Biologist]

4 minutes ago, Fish Folk said:

Our water is soft, and the pH fluctuates from 7.8 down to 7.0 and can quickly crash to 6.0 and lower if too much humid acid builds up from alder cones, catappa leaves, etc. 

 

Wow those are crazy fluctuations. I have only ever seen pH swings like that in river deltas. But, if that works for you kudos. pH swings do indicate to fish that rainy or dry seasons are upon them and make them more willing to breed. In their native rivers they can see huge pH swings from 7.5 all the way down to 4.

 

I would say as a general rule they do prefer acidic conditions but as stated above they can live in a wide range of conditions. You should have no issue. I think OP might have meant 110 liters though? which is about 29 gallons. 

[Fish Folk]

11 minutes ago, Biotope Biologist said:

Wow those are crazy fluctuations. I have only ever seen pH swings like that in river deltas. But, if that works for you kudos. pH swings do indicate to fish that rainy or dry seasons are upon them and make them more willing to breed. In their native rivers they can see huge pH swings from 7.5 all the way down to 4.

Yep. Very challenging to work with for certain species. Others love it. The photo below is an Apistogramma bitaeniata that was caught wild in the (Peru) Amazon a few years back (2019 maybe?). The guys in our fish club go to the Amazon almost yearly, and bring back lots of these sorts of little guys. Anyway, he was all grumpy and hiding for a year or so. But now that we moved him to a new tank, where the pH is down 6.0 or lower, he's happy as a lark and coming out to sport his silver tips. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Fish Folk

[MN-AQUARIST]

From my experience you should be good with those water parameters if you can get fish raised in similar water. The fish could also adjust from lower pH and softer water but it would take time and cause some stress.  I would say something to keep in mind is the temp you have the tank at, I find that rams and certain apistos like 80+ which might stress out some of your other fish. There are plenty of apistos that do well in slightly lower temps and for a lower temp "ram" you could do Bolivian rams. 

[BenA]

Thank you guys for the encouragement and advice. One shop says that they keep the Rams in PH 8 water (they are 3 miles away from us). I go there weekly to check on the fish and they seems to be very happy, colorful and dual with each other.

The tank is 106.5gl (410ltr), it is about 140X50X66cm (55"X20"X24"). I bought coconuts, empty them, cut an opening and added Java Moss on top as a hide out for the Corrys, I guess that the Rams will take over and move in.

The comment about the temp pushed me further into the 'arms' of another 78gl. tank. I have already floated the idea (about 2 months ago) with the boss and the NO wasn't very convincing as she has started to check where we can position it ☺️ but she didn't like my idea of a black water biotope.

Thanks for the RO link, will force me to clear a bit of a wall space in the garage.

Thank you guys!