Accidental Breeding of Otocinclus!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Alright fishy friends. The 3rd generation is starting to show their little faces. I've caught #1. Sadly, the real #1 was swallowed up by one of my Harlequins before I had the chance to grab the net. That was, though nature, nothing I enjoy seeing. I still love my Harlies though. 

I'm wondering if my fellow posters here have an opinion about whether or not, once my black neon tetras (aka murder fish to me since they picked off some of their own number) are settled into their gang war if my Harlequins should move into the tank with them (we'll have some Jets vs Sharks) and make my original tank an Oto/Snail only tank? Could that work? There would be 10 Harlies and 10 Black Neons (as long as they don't off somebody else). 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Gator it just so happens that I visit FL from time to time as I have a friend that lives in one of your tourist cities (Orlando). I will have to convince her to visit Silver Springs as it sounds like a super cool place, the pictures online are beautiful. Thanks for sharing that spot.

My 2nd 20 gallon has much bigger pieces of driftwood and the tanks sit side by side, there is a very clear difference in water coloring. I love both looks. I'm not sure I'll ever achieve something like what @Streetwise or what @Isaac M has done as they have amazing natural tanks. I can admire them and all the others here from afar and just do my own thing. I can't have tank envy because then I can't enjoy MY tanks for what they are and I do very much enjoy them. I like learning from other posters about how they do things, there are some truly amazing fishkeepers here. I've been slowly rearranging my parent tank but not wanting to disrupt the breeding going on it's been very, very little at a time There is definitely plans to add more wood in the future- just haven't found the perfect piece yet. It won't be a blackwater tank by far but maybe in the future it's something I'd try. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Isaac M]

Thank you @xXInkedPhoenixX, you are too kind. Great outlook as well. The beauty of fishkeeping is that it can be done in multiple ways. There is no one way. Just do what you enjoy as long as the livestock is healthy and that makes it a great tank to me. I look forward to seeing your aquarium evolve! 

Also, I do not foresee an issue with a 20 gallon aquarium with harlequins and black neons. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Isaac M I think pretty soon I'm going to try and move my Harlies. I caught some of them hanging out IN the amazon sword that the eggs are in tonight. They're getting wise to the little ones I think. They need to pick on someone their own size. 😁

Edited April 26, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
Typos are lame

[Gator]

There is nothing wrong with a species only tank, and maybe even plenty to gain.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Hi fish friends, Gen 3 not starting out to be as prolific as Gens 1 and 2 but I do suspect that's in part because my Harlequins have gotten wiser to the baby presence. However I am now up to 4 of them. 2 that were caught are still in the translucent stage- which as you might imagine aren't easy to catch as they are super small, fast and delicate. I don't believe I've posted a pic of one so here it is for your enjoyment. 

[Gator]

So that's what new-born Oto's look like, I'll be sure to watch for them.

Nothing happened during the super moon of the 27th, maybe during the new moon. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Gator yea they are super hard to spot. I really have to scan the tank glass to see them, catching them with a net is a whole other ball game as they say. It's a gentle but fast moving process if they want to escape. Thankfully the 2 I've saved recently from the Harlequin jaws eventually swam right into the net- once they leave the tank glass and swim across open waters they are SUPER hard for me to see but very easy for the Harlies to, stands to reason I suppose. 

When I spotted my very first I thought a) I was seeing things and b) it had to be some sort of bug because it couldn't POSSIBLY be an Oto. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Sliceofnature]

Wow so many youngins! I am very jealous, I've been trying to get mine to breed for about 6 months now. No luck yet but hopefully i get a fry explosion soon like yours. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Sliceofnature, be like me, don't try! 😂 However, I wish it upon you. You might curse me later. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Gator]

xXInkedPhoenixX; by your description, maybe I have some and can't see them because they are still too small or are on the glass at the back or on a side glass where I let algae grow at will, it may be easier if I could see some algae in their bellies. Then again, I have Cholo wood in the tank and they may be hiding for protection in one of the holes in the wood and only coming out at night to feed though there is nothing in the tank that would eat them, but then again, they wouldn't know that.

Today I am going to puree several dozen nightcrawlers to feed all of my fish to increase the number of eggs that my egg layers may produce, This has always worked for me before and maybe otos will eat this also since the pieces of nightcrawler will be small enough for them to eat.

I don't know what it is about nightcrawlers, maybe nightcrawlers have a higher vitamin, mineral, protein, fat, or fiber content than flake food, but in the past all of my fish have responded well to them.

We'll see.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Gator They are ABSOLUTELY hard to spot. Even funnier (to me) is that in my grow out tank with a black bottom I can't even see the nearly 2 mos old babies (part of that right now is that I'm STILL waiting on the light I ordered). My parent tank has no backgrounds on it and a white wall behind it. Though you wouldn't think it that's actually helped me to see them better. I'll attach a screen shot of the video I shot the FIRST time I spotted a baby. The first one wasn't the most translucent I've caught but if there had been a dark background they are impossible to see- I find that when they are above the black rim if I fill the tank unless I look at a very specific angle there's no way to see them. 

On your earthworm theory- I've never witnessed any of my Otos eating anything other than vegetation. They won't even touch the cat scrapers for bottom feeders (they have "animal" proteins)- ONLY the algae wafers. So it will be interesting to see if they eat any of your earthworms- I'm not convinced that they will in my limited experience. Corycats, absolutely would, Otos.....not sure about that. 

[Gator]

I didn't actually see them eat the nightcrawlers, but an hour after I fed them I looked in on them and each and every Oto was fatter than I've ever seen them before, so maybe.

It kind of makes sense that they would eat a puree of nightcrawlers considering that in the Amazon river basin, there is a nightcrawler that grows to 6 feet long and can stretch out to 12 feet. If one of these were to be washed into the water by some means, I'm sure it would be attacked by a lot of fish and torn into a lot of pieces that would float downstream and be eaten by a lot of other fish, maybe an Oto or a thousand Oto's would get lucky. A lot of stuff floats in the waters of the Amazon.

You are right, everything I've also read about Oto's have said that they only eat algae, but what's the harm in trying. If these fish die, I'll buy more, if these fish lay a lot of eggs that hatch, I'll automatically have more.

When I fed the tanks, I fed this tank first before going on to the others, On May 1 when I feed nightcrawlers to the tanks again, I'll feed this tank last so that I can watch what happens. Maybe we can make it easy for other Oto keepers to breed their fish. 

A little trivia about fish breeding; the first fish to breed in captivity is the Convict Cichlid. I would have thought it would have been the Guppies, but what do I know?

[Celly Rasbora]

I think The Accidental Otocinclus would make a great book title. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Gator oh totally, I'm sure Otos get some animal proteins in their diet when they are shredded up in the Amazonian waters, even in our own tanks, and it certainly does NOT hurt to try. Personally for me I'll never know for SURE what triggered mine to start- all the planets aligned in the tank is my only guess. Oh and @Gator I find that fish fact kinda odd like you. Maybe they mean PURPOSEFULLY BRED? As it seems Guppies don't  need convincing! 😂

@Celly Rasbora AGREED! That's a perfect title for a book!

Edited April 30, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[NET Aquatics]

Do you have any of these left? I'd pay top dollar for a group of breeding Otos.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Fishy friends, those who have raised fry. Generation 2 is now getting too big for their britches in the larger breeder box but there are a few I'd rather not release into the "general population" of the 10 gallon grow out so that I can monitor their growth as they are half the size of the rest of them. Anybody have any good ideas about how to get those particular few out?

[gardenman]

Depending on their size, if they're small enough, a turkey baster works pretty well. For larger fry a shrimp net works well. They're a small, fine meshed net that's maybe 2" X 1.75". You can get round or rectangular ones. I'd go for the rectangular one for a breeder box. They're a very nice, very small, fine mesh net designed not to hurt shrimp, so they're pretty safe for small to medium sized fry. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@gardenman I have a turkey baster that I'm using to vacuum the bottom of the tank now but that makes me nervous, and it's surprising how well the little ones stick to the solid walls. I think I'll look for a shrimp net. Thanks very much for your ideas. 

[Sliceofnature]

On 4/29/2021 at 7:22 PM, Gator said:

I didn't actually see them eat the nightcrawlers, but an hour after I fed them I looked in on them and each and every Oto was fatter than I've ever seen them before, so maybe.

It kind of makes sense that they would eat a puree of nightcrawlers considering that in the Amazon river basin, there is a nightcrawler that grows to 6 feet long and can stretch out to 12 feet. If one of these were to be washed into the water by some means, I'm sure it would be attacked by a lot of fish and torn into a lot of pieces that would float downstream and be eaten by a lot of other fish, maybe an Oto or a thousand Oto's would get lucky. A lot of stuff floats in the waters of the Amazon.

You are right, everything I've also read about Oto's have said that they only eat algae, but what's the harm in trying. If these fish die, I'll buy more, if these fish lay a lot of eggs that hatch, I'll automatically have more.

When I fed the tanks, I fed this tank first before going on to the others, On May 1 when I feed nightcrawlers to the tanks again, I'll feed this tank last so that I can watch what happens. Maybe we can make it easy for other Oto keepers to breed their fish. 

A little trivia about fish breeding; the first fish to breed in captivity is the Convict Cichlid. I would have thought it would have been the Guppies, but what do I know?

@GatorIf theyre anything like all of the Oto’s ive had they will happily chomp on some worms. Its Interesting to me how different @xXInkedPhoenixX experience with them has been to my own. I have a group of about 10 of them and they totally ignore the algae wafers. There is plenty of real algae in the tank for them so that may be why. Also my Oto’s absolutely love shrimp pellets and carnivore pellets, repashy community and they go nuts for Tubifex worms just like my corydoras. Dont get me wrong a majority of their diet is vegetables like zuchini, cucumber, squash and sweet potato as well as algae/awfuchs but if i throw in some shrimp pellets theyre over theyre sucking them down in no time.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Sliceofnature it IS rather facinating though they are same species we have different experiences with them. When I had my Otos in their quarantine tank upon their arrival I gave them different things- the only things they were interested in in the end were the items I put in the tank that had diatom on them and the Hikari algae wafers. That's it. No cat scrapers, no tropical flakes, no micro pellet, not even fresh veggies. So now in my original tank where they breed all they eat is the algae they can find (and this tank is now pretty darn algae free) and the wafers I put in the tank every day. I still put cat scrapers in but the Mystery snails are the only ones that touch them. I figured I'd be the very LAST person in the world to have Otos make babies (which is why I picked them, didn't need/want a breeding project) but here it is- and other people try so hard to get them to breed and never can. It's a mystery to me. I keep shaking my head. 

[anewbie]

3 hours ago, Sliceofnature said:

@GatorIf theyre anything like all of the Oto’s ive had they will happily chomp on some worms. Its Interesting to me how different @xXInkedPhoenixX experience with them has been to my own. I have a group of about 10 of them and they totally ignore the algae wafers. There is plenty of real algae in the tank for them so that may be why. Also my Oto’s absolutely love shrimp pellets and carnivore pellets, repashy community and they go nuts for Tubifex worms just like my corydoras. Dont get me wrong a majority of their diet is vegetables like zuchini, cucumber, squash and sweet potato as well as algae/awfuchs but if i throw in some shrimp pellets theyre over theyre sucking them down in no time.

I have a group of 10 otto in my 40B and even among this group they have a different preference for diet. When i put zuc in the tank there are 3 or 4 that will immediately jump on it but the others seem to ignore it and will stick to plants or glass in the same proximity. For a while i had one that would swim upside down at the top and suck in flakes when i fed the other fishes - after a while it stopped doing that little trick and perhaps it was just extra hungry but it was still kind of amusing. In my 120 i have a group of some number - at least 7 - for about 8 months i thought most had died because i would only see 1 or 2 but recently (last 4 or 6 weeks a bunch of them - 7 (which is how i know have at least 7) have been collecting in one corner during water changes. 

-

Anyway after i move i tend to put 20 or 25 in a 180 and at least 5 sae in a 450 (ok ok sae are totally different but still a very amusing fish in a group).

[Gator]

Believe it or not, all fish have nostrils and can smell. You've no doubt fed your fish maybe a flake food and have seen a fish approach a flake, then turn to swim away leaving that flake untouched, but eat a different flake. That first flake may not have appealed to their sense of smell for whatever reason.

I've fed my fish pureed nightcrawlers for many, many years and not one species of fish has ever shunned them, even Plecos' will eat them.

I don't feed my fish just nightcrawlers, I mix it up, I'll feed nightcrawlers one day, flakes on another, and then maybe frozen bloodworms or frozen brine shrimp on another, but when I feed them the nightcrawlers, they're all over them. Our fish have a varied diet in the wild so that's what I give them in my tanks.

 We can place a known male and female of any species in our tanks with the hope of breeding them, provide them with the proper food, water temp, and parameters, but if they do breed, it's an accident.

 Back in the '80's I had a male and female Betta in a 10G tank, the male built a fine bubble nest, but the female killed him. I believe the female just wasn't ready to breed.

On the other hand, in 2006 I had a fine example of a male and female Guppy, and I fed them pureed nightcrawlers three times a week. I knew that if they bred and then I breed the male back to the female offspring, and the female back to the best looking of the male offspring, I could have some very good looking, show-quality Guppies.

Normally, when a female Guppy gives birth, she will give birth to 15 to 25 babies. After a couple of weeks of feeding them nightcrawlers, one morning I woke up and I saw that she had given birth so I started catching the babies before she could eat them, I caught 187 babies.

She swam around for the rest of the day in a head down 45 degree angle, the next day she swam around in a head down 30 degree angle, but the next day she was back to normal. My guess is that having so many fertile embryos put pressure on her swim bladder that affected her for a couple of days afterward.

I haven't had any nightcrawlers for several months so when I was finally able to buy some, I bought and pureed 4 dozen and poured them into two, one-half ounce containers to be placed into the crisper section of the refrigerator (I happily live alone so I can do this without being yelled at) so they'll stay liquid. I've frozen them in the past, but they dry out over time and aren't readily accepted by fish. 

On 5-29-21, I fed some of this to all of my tanks and it was like a shark feeding frenzy, even small, recently purchased Neon Tetras' were getting in on the frenzy.

On 5-30, I woke up to see that the Corie's that are in the tank with the Neon's had laid a lot of eggs all over all 4 walls of that tank. So much for my moon phase theory, the Corie's were probably going to lay eggs on that day anyway, but probably not as many and they've all been fertilized. Maybe someone out there can tell me about a method I could use to separate the eggs from the parents to keep the eggs from being eaten by the parents or if Corie's are known to eat their own eggs.

Nightcrawlers do not induce spawning, but conditions the fish for spawning and somehow to produce more offspring.

How could I know if 187 babies is normal for Guppies' in the wild? Truth is, I don't.  

 

 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Gator totally believe fish can smell their food. When their food doesn't smell I always wonder what's wrong with it! 😂

[Isaac M]

@Gator @xXInkedPhoenixX have you ever fed tubifix worms? Especially to corydoras, they know its there immediately when it hits the water 😂