Accidental Breeding of Otocinclus!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Fishdude I really don't need more tanks, I'm busy enough with 4 as it is at the moment. 

To answer your question @quirkylemon103, I suppose it's time for an update:

RECENT BATCH: I now have approximately 20 newer babies in the main tank 1 I saw earlier I could not catch, the other I took a pic of in the pill container next to a penny so you can see- this batch started some time around 11 days ago, since the eggs aren't of course hatching all at the same time they are in varying degrees of development. Since this is in a 20 gallon tall with potential predators (Harlequins) when they are small I tend to wait until they decide to attach themselves to an area closer to the top of the tank in order to guide them with a small net. I've found I have to put the longer end of the net on their nose side as they tend to go that direction- at an angle- hoping they don't flip on me and turn the other way- sometimes escaping and swimming into the mouths of predators- sometimes just resetting the chase. In order to reduce the stress of being caught I scoop them out of the net that is still in the water with a pill container then pour them out into the breeder box. 

EATING: As to what they are eating: Still only whatever they find in the main tank before they are caught- plenty of algae still even with all the Otos in the tank (I think other than what is in the breeder I have about 6 original babies- the adults- of which there should be 6 are rather nocturnal and I rarely see them but for Momma fish who is often at the front guarding eggs, however she wasn't there today so maybe she's finally got her eggs hatched for now and giving both of us a much needed break. I digress, I also fill a "fish bowl" a literal fish shaped bowl that the adults in quarantine were trained to find Hikari Wafer in so I continue that practice- I see babies in there all the time as well as adults, I had to give them a bit more cover with some statuary and fake plants but still open visual so I know when the bowl is empty. The snails eat cat scraper out it too. In the breeders they are eating whatever is on the walls and crushed Hikari Wafer. The original batch in the new 10 gallon grow out eats the same things- I tried putting a zucchini in there earlier and well, nobody is interested still. I'll try again another time. I've never been able to get my adult Otos to eat "fresh" food. 

ORIGINAL BATCH: They are now around 1 month and 10 days old in the grow out tank. They are hard to get a picture of, partially because I'm still waiting on some light equipment, and perhaps painting the bottom of the tank black wasn't the best of ideas but oh well. I've had no losses here that I have found and continue near daily "vacuuming" with a lab dropper along the bottom to scoop up waste and old food. Some of them are about half the size of an adult, others are almost half the size of that. These are more gregarious than their parent group, moving a lot during the day but also super active at night. 

WATER PARAMETERS: As you might imagine having so many in a 20 gallon has had some obstacles. I do daily ammonia testing and have kept their water super clean, sometimes doing a 3 gallon water change a day. I don't run a heater but the tank at it's lowest has been 75.6 and highest 78.4. PH has stayed steady at 7.6 but I've had it waver a little to 7.4 recently. Nitrites at 0, Nitrate has been anywhere from 0 to 20. KH 3 or 53.7. GH has been holding steady for the last 4 weeks at 107.4. 

The pictures attached are in order of mention of subject. Enjoy! 

 

[Dkshadowwolf]

Congratulations on your successful breeding of wonderful little fish. I will have to try harder Not to Breed my fish😊  This was very well written account of your happy accident 👍

 

 

 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Dkshadowwolf Ha! Thanks very much, they are pretty great, I mean I really liked them before- but raising the little ones (though not the plan) has been fun. I'm rather protective of the little things, and they are a joy to watch.

Edited April 16, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
1 more thing.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Update: Today's tank temperature at 75 degrees. I caught THREE more babies bringing us to a total of 29 for spawn batch number 2. At least I think it's 29- they don't sit still very long. 

[DocHippo]

Congratulations! I know you didn't intend to breed but wow that is so exciting.  I love otos they might be my favorite fish.  Thank you for sharing your journey, I've never seen a baby oto, they're so cute!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Miss Dr. Chaos Thanks! I really didn't but I'm starting to be very glad they did. As I've menitoned the only reason I don't like it is because I want to make sure the offspring get good homes (cause nobody is better than you when you do this right??). I think my favorite category of animal are scavengers (they are always so clever and often so overlooked) so I have an affinity for catfish of any kind- I grow to appreciate my little Otos more and more everyday. I love how my Momma fish watches over her eggs- and seeing her babies grow up is so cool. She's pretty awesome. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

...and there's 30, taunting me. Some of Generation 1 is still in the parent tank- they can stay. I think there are 4-6 of them? I never see them all at once. 

[MollyMomma]

I saw this post in an Email from Aquarium-Coop's beneath their articles. This is AMAZING!! Congratulations! I've been keeping Otto's for about 1 year now and they have not bred. I don't expect them to because I've read how hard it can be. Buy they are very cute, one of my favorite fish. 

Keep us updated!

[Aquater]

My newest trick - that I can't take credit for because I saw it online.  I would credit the person, but I don't remember who it was.  If you are setting up a bare bottom tank, you can make the bottom look really nice.  I got the paint at a big box hardware store, it's the stuff that looks like stone when you spray it.  Turn the tank upside down and spray the bottom. It may need a few light coats.  Don't try to get it all on at once.  When you do it blasts the paint around and you get bare spots.   I used a color called Sepia and it looks just like sand. It has flecks of white, beige, black and well sand color.  I really like how it turned out.  I'm breeding snails and the Mystery snails are really messy.  Their tank is now bare bottom.  I do put a bowl of gravel, sand and crushed coral in for them, and plants - but maintenance is super simple.

 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Thanks @MollyMomma didn't realize my babies were in an email lol. We're as famous as we're ever going to be now 😂 I'm glad I have this forum to come to to talk about my Oto babies. The people in my life have got to be internally rolling their eyes at me by now. 🙄 They patiently wait for me to finish my daily Oto adventure stories. Clearly they don't know the apparent small miracle my fish have performed.

Today batch 2 was moved into the larger breeder box (I believe I'm at 33?! I'll be counting or trying to tomorrow) in the 10 gallon grow out tank. The parent tank is undergoing some rearrangement while there *seems* to be a pause in breeding- I haven't seen Momma where she'd usually be sitting to guard eggs. They tend to do their breeding dance at night so while I type this in the dark they may be doing so- I'd never know. I HAD lighting ready for the grow out tank as the final piece came this week HOWEVER technical issues have me returning said lighting to its internet store and I'm waiting yet again on a light. I have this tiny, itsy bitsy LED light that's for a 3 gallon tank for now on a timer and it's TERRIBLE for pictures. I also hope my plants don't hate me too much, thankfully it's in a bright room during the day (no direct light).

Thank you @Aquater for that tip, I'm actually aware of that paint! I wish I would have thought of that before. I didn't think black would be a bad color but now because I haven't had lighting I'm second guessing it. I'll know that for next time. 😁

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Ok fishy friends. Short update. As mentioned above the 2nd generation of babies are now floating in a large breeder in the 10 gallon Romper Room. I vacuumed out their turf to prepare for new Hikari Wafers and took a pic, see if you can spot all 30!

Momma fish is now hanging out in the corner where she previously laid her other batches. I haven't seen any eggs on the undersides of the leaves at least so far but they are nearly invisible- maybe she's just getting ready. There COULD be another laying female but I've not seen evidence of it or where another female might be posting up. From what I understand the female doesn't lay that many eggs. Going on 30 babies caught each lay and knowing that I've lost only a few that I can confirm before they made it to the breeder boxes I'm betting I only have the one female laying. Maybe someone else who has done this can chime in with their experience. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
1 more thing.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Caught 2 more today for 32 on Gen2

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Fishy Friends!!! More!!!! 😮😯 Good lawd, here comes Gen 3

[Isaac M]

@xXInkedPhoenixX more fun for the tank 😂

[Gator]

2 hours ago, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Fishy Friends!!! More!!!! 😮😯 Good lawd, here comes Gen 3

Thanks for posting photos of the eggs, now I'll know what to look for and where to find them.

 

 

[Gator]

Thanks for the photos of the eggs. Now I know what they look like and where to find them.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Gator of course no worries, hoping if I'm doing something right others can replicate it. All the eggs I've spotted have been on the undersides of my Swords's leaves. 

[Gator]

1 minute ago, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

@Gator of course no worries, hoping if I'm doing something right others can replicate it. All the eggs I've spotted have been on the undersides of my Swords's leaves. 

Thank you.  By watching You Tube videos,I was actually under the impression that otos preferred cryptocorynes. It doesn't matter, I have both, but I'll be watching and I'll let you know.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Gator that seems to be the issue, nobody seems to know for sure! As you can see by the title I didn't do this intentionally, but now I have 60+ and more on the way as evidenced by those pics. I don't have any crypts right now in my tank- just swords, aponogeton, and anubias species

[Gator]

2 minutes ago, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

@Gator that seems to be the issue, nobody seems to know for sure! As you can see by the title I didn't do this intentionally, but now I have 60+ and more on the way as evidenced by those pics. I don't have any crypts right now in my tank- just swords, aponogeton, and anubias species

I have 1 rather large sword, 1 anubias nana,, a cluster of pennywort, 1 hygrophila polysperma, 1 hygrophila difformis a cluster of cryptocoryne, and 1 java fern so they've got their choice. I'd love to have an aponogeton, but this is a small town with 3 pet shops that cater mostly to the dog and cat crowd.

I've got 20 otos and until recently I had 6 harlequin rasboras in the tank with them and rasboras are notorious egg eaters so I'm sure that they may have eaten any eggs the otos may have laid. The rasboras are in a different tank now so I'm hoping for the best.

Keep a record of everything you do to your aquarium as I've done for about 20 years.

Write down the date of water changes, PH, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate levels, daily temps, foods you've fed them, even the moon phase can be important, especially when they've laid eggs. Some fish lay eggs during a full moon while others will lay eggs during a new moon and always during the early morning hours whether your aquarium lights are on or not.

Good luck, maybe you or I will solve the mystery to breeding otos.

 

[MichelleMichelle]

On 4/20/2021 at 9:39 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Thanks @MollyMomma didn't realize my babies were in an email lol. We're as famous as we're ever going to be now 😂 I'm glad I have this forum to come to to talk about my Oto babies. The people in my life have got to be internally rolling their eyes at me by now. 🙄 They patiently wait for me to finish my daily Oto adventure stories. Clearly they don't know the apparent small miracle my fish have performed.

Today batch 2 was moved into the larger breeder box (I believe I'm at 33?! I'll be counting or trying to tomorrow) in the 10 gallon grow out tank. The parent tank is undergoing some rearrangement while there *seems* to be a pause in breeding- I haven't seen Momma where she'd usually be sitting to guard eggs. They tend to do their breeding dance at night so while I type this in the dark they may be doing so- I'd never know. I HAD lighting ready for the grow out tank as the final piece came this week HOWEVER technical issues have me returning said lighting to its internet store and I'm waiting yet again on a light. I have this tiny, itsy bitsy LED light that's for a 3 gallon tank for now on a timer and it's TERRIBLE for pictures. I also hope my plants don't hate me too much, thankfully it's in a bright room during the day (no direct light).

Thank you @Aquater for that tip, I'm actually aware of that paint! I wish I would have thought of that before. I didn't think black would be a bad color but now because I haven't had lighting I'm second guessing it. I'll know that for next time. 😁

Where are you located?  I would be happy to home a few.

 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Gator I am with the new technology and have AquariumNote app, I keep track of EVERYTHING. It charts my water tests, I make daily notes/times feedings, water changes, chems, etc. Tracks my equipment/supply pricing and times purchased. Reminds me about fert tabs and sponge squeezings etc. I don't keep track of the moon phases but I know what you mean about stuff like that. So far no rhyme or reason, I've had 3 consecutive spawns starting 1 month 18 days ago with the first visible baby (my tank has been running for 7mos 10days per the app). This is my first time with Otos AND funny you should mention: 10 Harlequin Rasboras- They have not been seen eating any of my eggs but have caught a few translucent wayward babies- however my Swords ARE short and they don't typically troll the lower level of the 20 gallon tall I have them in- though I've recently caught a few flashing into the "fishbowl" I leave food in for the bottom dwellers which contains pieces of cat scraper and algae wafer. I found that interesting. As far as I can tell I only have seen 1 momma fish but there are other places in the tank moms could hang out- however only having 30 ish per spawn I'm betting I have only one laying- my understanding is they aren't prolific egg layers which to me stands to reason because in the wild they hang out in the many thousands. My momma fish is, IMO, very smart, she lays her eggs on the one sword that has a driftwood cage even the snails can't really get to the plant, so I imagine the Harlequins haven't quite figured that out. 

@MichelleMichelle I'm in Northern CA and though I'm not sure we are allowed to offer up fish on the forum as of now it would be really cool to have some forum members adopt my babies because I'd know they'd be taken care of by other NERMS and maybe even the offspring will have success in breeding and that would be SO awesome. I see we have little badges under our IDs for trade status but haven't seen anything about what that means yet (though I haven't looked either) I'm actually really nervous about them growing up, I have 2 LFS who have said they'd accept them in trade, but they have to be an inch to accept them. They're not quite there. Is it bad that I want them all to stay small? 🙃

[Gator]

xXInkedPhoenixX; It sounds to me that you've got everything going right and you've done your homework on the numbers of otos in a school. That's fantastic.

All 7 of my tanks have been set up going on 16 years now and I keep track of everything by saving everything to a flash drive, a different folder for each tank. The only time I've lost an adult fish has been to old age.

This morning (4-24), I noticed a very fat oto and another that wasn't as fat moving together slowly under a Pennywort leaf and they may have been mating (?). They moved under the leaf of another Pennywort nearby and did the same, then under a leaf of the Hygrophila Difformis and did the same. Maybe I'll be having babies in my tank soon.

These plants are at the back of this tank and on the right, away from the intake and outflow of the filter and I wonder if the calmer flow of water may have some bearing on the location of egg laying.

If they prefer a plant with broader leaves, I can surely move an Amazon Sword to that location.

I checked my calendar and found that the full moon is on the 27th, so I may or may not be onto something.

And, Michelle, it's hard to sell fish that you've put so much time and effort into breeding and raising, but it can be done with a "Trading Times," if your town has one.

About 10 years ago I was breeding, raising, and selling Angelfish, Cories, and show quality fancy-tailed Guppies to a local LFS for $1 each. 

The owner would call me to ask if I could deliver 10 male Guppies and 10 female Guppies, "X" number of Angelfish and "X" number of Cories to him the following day, and I'd say sure.

The restaurant next door to his business wanted to buy his property so they could expand their parking lot so he sold his business to someone else, they sold out and moved to a new location and their business went downhill fast.

I took 10 male and 10 female fancy-tailed Guppies to show the new owner at the new owner, told her my asking price and she said that she only pays a quarter apiece for her Guppies.

I told her that she is paying $1 apiece for them plus S&H for a total of about $1.50 per Guppy so I'm saving her the cost of the S&H.

She insisted on a quarter apiece so I looked at the Guppies she was selling and they were pathetic so I told her that she was selling Guppies for $6.99 that I would have only fed to Oscars if I'd had Oscars and that other pet shops were selling better looking Guppies for $1.75 (at the time).

I picked up a "Trading Times" on the way home for 85 cents, it's free to advertise and a week after the new issue came out, I had sold by appointment only  200 show quality fancy-tailed Guppies, 150 Angelfish, and 75 Cories for &1 apiece.

I had people from as far as 75 miles away buying my fish though I'm pretty sure that some of those people owned pet shops elsewhere, so don't give up.

 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Gator It has been my observation, Oto mating dances happen at night. I see the smaller ones chasing the larger ones back and forth in the tank (usually to the back but have seen them in the front occasionally) and it's pretty vigorous (and in fact I saw it last night and they make me smile, I wish I could capture it). I have never caught them in the mating position shall we say, which I believe is a T per some research I've done. 

As far as my set up, I can confirm that there is really no flow in the area the eggs have been layed. I run a sponge filter and a corner air driven bio filter (sponge/media mix)- the top/mid tank gets decent movement (as evidence by the moving aponogeton) but I don't think there's much movement if at all at the bottom being a 20gal tall. The area where my momma lays is right at the front corner across from the corner filter which is actually relatively new to the tank to help handle the bio load. No movement of the Sword and it's no taller than 5 inches? The leaves are no wider than she is. It is a Sword I nearly lost in another tank but somehow coaxed it back to life when I moved it into this tank from a dead one. 

I have done so much research, prior to getting Otos and Harlequins, but as I stated very early on, this was not expected at ALL because Otos are not easy breeders per alllll the research I've done. SO, I did NO breeding research. I've given myself a headache with hours and hours of internet searching and picking brains here since then. I'm kind of a nerd- and I love to learn. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
to clarify

[Gator]

I'm using a HOB filter with a pre-filter on the intake strainer to catch any debris before it gets into the filter, a media bag with peat pellets in it to duplicate as closely as possible the blackwater conditions that otos come from, a foam insert I cut to fit from a block of bio-foam, the original bio-filter that came with the HOB filter, but I'm not using activated carbon.

If you're not familiar with blackwater set ups, don't let the term fool you, the water is not actually black, but it does have a slight yellowish tint to the water from the tannins in the peat. Tannins are what give tea, coffee, and some colas their color.

In the Amazon, the water looks black from the surface because of the detritus and decaying vegetation suspended in the water column, but the water is actually a cloudy, slightly yellowish color.

In my home state of Florida, the water looks black from the surface because the detritus and decaying vegetation is lying on the bottom with very little current to keep things stirred up, we call this stuff muck and it makes great fertilizer. There are some exceptions to the slow moving rule.

If you ever decide to go to Florida, forget about Disney World, Sea World, and Universal Studios, go instead to Silver Springs on Route 40, East of Ocala.

Silver Springs is Florida's first tourist attraction and it's way, way cheaper than those others I mentioned and other than Sea World maybe, more educational.

The main spring is 300 feet across and 150 feet deep. If you stand at the edge, of the main spring and look out at the center of the spring, you'll see a hump on the surface of the water, The spring has that much force from 150 feet down.

There is a water tight box you can walk down into that has large windows that allow you to look out into the spring and you'll see some really big freshwater fish that you can't fish for, but you can see all the way to the bottom and all the way across the spring just as clearly as looking across your living room. 

There are several springs in Florida that you can visit, Rainbow Springs, Weeki Wachee Springs, Hommossassa Springs to name a few  where the water is just as fast and clear in each of them. The water in all of Florida's springs started out as rain and snowmelt from the Appalachian Mountains 1,000 years ago. 

Of course there is more to do at Silver Springs than walk down into a box and watch fish, there's a petting zoo for the kids, glass bottom boats they use to take you to the other springs on the property and the guide will point out the local fauna, you'll probably get to safely see an alligator, and if you were to go in the winter, you may get to see a Manatee.

I'm sorry, I've gotten off topic.

Today, someone gave me a 29 gallon, all glass tank that is a cube. I've seen smaller cube tanks that are acrylic, but never glass.

Now I've got to build a stand, decide on a substrate, decide on which type of filter, and get a heater.

I think I'll try to breed Yoyo Loaches in this one since they've never been bred in a home aquarium.

I'm glad you love to learn, so do I.