Jump to content

Betta Acts Sick- Not Sure if it’s Popeye


LeonardoBetta
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hello JamesB,

Thank you for the idea.   I may have to think of a creative way to film him with my phone or maybe an old video camera.  
My betta is certainly a puzzle.   I did a gravel vacuum of 2 and 1/2 gallons of water about 4 hours ago.  He stayed in that limp position in the earlier photograph while I vacuumed the other side of the tank.   When I gently added the water back as to not disturb him he started to lay on the gravel upright again (see picture). He stayed like that a good half hour.  I tried to feed with tweezers and he swam up into a leafy plant (see picture) and stayed there until I turned his lights out.  He did not eat, but I left the worm and 2 small pellets in there.   I went away and came back a half hour later he was sitting on the gravel kind of normally pointed as if he was looking out in my direction.

69E81570-25E0-4D64-951A-15493F30A99B.jpeg

D27CC5EC-967E-44EE-980D-0436CA9776A8.jpeg

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi JamesB,

I just replied to rben’s message and addressed to you.   Well hopefully everybody reads it.  
To answer your question the water Params today were ph 7.5, ammo 0, nitrite 0.  I didnt do the others.  I as mentioned in a prior post I did a half tank water change out a few hours ago from my 5 gallon tank.  Note he is the only creature in this tank.  
I got this betta at petco late last January.   He was labeled as a black orchid.  I think he is a rose tail.   Ever since I had him he seemed to pretty lazy hanging up at the top on leaves or nearby filter slot flow against a sponge-  and struggle with what I believed to be fin rot.  Finally I discovered he was tail nipping - and was possibly all along.  I also thought when I first got him he didn’t see well - missed pellets or worms right in front of his face at times- so I literally spoon fed him like a baby every meal.  Maybe he is a good actor and liked me to spoil him.  Anyway that’s a little more insight on him. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi @LeonardoBetta. I just wanted to say how sorry I am to read about your poor Betta. I would also feel awful if my fishy friend wasn't feeling well and I didn't know what is wrong. If only he could tell you! 😢 FWIW, I believe you are getting some very good advice right now. I do not know @rben675well, but @Colu and @JamesB are very experienced fish keepers. 

Best wishes to you and your Betta. Hang in there you two. 💗

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm wondering if its old age. I know you've only had him for a year and a bit, but theres a good chance he was a few years old at the petstore. Your water parameters are in check.

I would lay off feeding completley, the fish is better off not to eat and to cause that amonia that will come.

I would try a salt treatment at 1T a gallon, see if that helps do it daily for 5 days. Lets hope that will kill off the bacteria and then the rest will heal on its own.

After a week or two you can start introducing food again, I might even try dipping them in garlic to make it more attractive for the fish.

Sharing you this thread:

 Thats my betta! He overcame some serious finrot because of people like @Hobbit @Anita @OceanTruth @Lifeisgood and so many more people! I know its two different diseases but they are both bacterial infections. 

This was my betta a few weeks ago:

bP488_Lo-mpsxHrrCvsKGwZGHAcLr1SS8LyKh82NvsKV3mY_dT5McjQQbWBPdLWe4iKbi0lKw8eOeRQ1b-ZU07Zl5qk9tho8oE7G53TmF-f7ugW0oM9kf1Cr_UvWFajg8i3BKPswCtAdXliUEN_V8rk-kD7RGsSJZgNVYZL4D-n2hJbY87IxEEJY9So45-9yLnuiPWGQ1AyqEuocLfbflC0gvpfIiyFEaoWkOgINGpudBpP_3qIusn6_FEh9oWhmzDjZUPhYaCVPD2RhjspLOXo2bCv-y7WYjYhCxZ1V_z82gm1mHA3GfGCJspI11lNv7YPH7-9wiGAA01GipO4mYJSX-STppJEJWzulMc_hGvsCLBLTnxW6BYaThj-0HHkuXV_OlhOrfo5VFr1frFkV7hdp0vgAxDQDpMfYgvIL0K0KC3cYXqV-Op8Eag-ZQbEmTccjhffaiOErZUoEPMSq_ZWEooZCMlGGTh48bWdlYkYlsziCLyAHaN0JIW4a2EtWmSEmd0KDmsQRxISBwwVtNwyR6MuSzNSgagPcd2Of6qP1S5krjXo9AoB46xgutCJX44uGTyCw111k85Cyvk8Nhfc0A5oekMXdMZUxXbgyD5D2IUqQsSj6OhVQyIwVzgtq7bagbAMsnq5bkr9w6t5jcEtYuoufSo53I9bSgSkwsFwZ-mT9VPmUDYdzwpI6hw=w370-h657-no?authuser=0

And this was him today:

J86jH9srR5HvZCP0sXY9pQnsH80Mx5mJKqaBbZmjqE-sQtN0TOr24w5Fe8WEccM3VP5xY_2qE_OKPZ-kL-yst4ekOfBQ1W5tahhUven9NMRKXwEly1rDRdYJC5vAAdUhZyFGkliNs-nzjOnDsJAFeSGyN6ZopqEn8wgnxnN8OfBY4ODnj4Ay0_cKId1WtNzS4gLWUmbv9xRs0g_CLiO1dBUj0vnR7o_wIm4qYD4f0Osoxa5u98-mlR_BZtVEK5mSegm1YKWTurs4pZQHRkay_PWPBxA2zWgm5Jgu56SP4eQ81leDBAxP_HVr7XNN0f1U7h7tOdM6_CJpHEL3n75AokRn3xLfpftS7mQ8Z85BkbC2Z6YIc_isrdPt7BUkdYn7_4Xv4OmXce-lEGDq8_XOTlMKhKze_--TbR74gju02W9YlduoeUnU03RL_5s0P90r9BD1RJ9_OfvHDQLi3b27R89zl766lnxziH-U01aVgEMuquCWna628uWhiJmljKXqTcU8H_LBp-Ycf8LgztwFnDW6ofgVsCOq0wSnoDMHMR8De7wt8fxUB2lHSfohx_Uh_VDBw1yxjzewBsqo_PcSeW0KEUT9cnPM6UbkFSnK0SNvgBajh7GfQ7R5Dpn7gLhlYJDpyfOmkhAKhJFiDfHHHraYKS-ce7q0w3Dmk95dxNnLnUJDq4PK19ZQSOd4yCFwp4p3_KvtlDVOfn3JcU7JiPBm=w370-h657-no?authuser=0

Edited by JamesB
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for sending this story JamesB.  It gives me some hope that I can fix his problem.   I might try giving him his space too not peeking at him so much.  When you said 1T of salt per gallon,  did you mean 1 Tablespoon Aquarium Salt?

Interestingly enough I have the same exact fluval spec 5 as you.  As I mentioned in a previous message-  my betta would float by that intake up top- so I put a sponge over it. I think that activity also caused his fins to fray a little too.  I seem to get a lot of algae in here and I feel like the tank looks dirty despite my gravel vacuuming and maintenance over the past year.  Do you cover your light to limit algae growth?

I will keep you guys posted on his progress.

thanks a lot

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, 1 Tablespoon of salt per gallon. AQUARIUM SALT NOT MARINE SALT!

I use paper and put that on the lid to limit the light, its really bright. When I first set it up I had lots of algae problems. Algae EVERYWHERE!!

My Betta did that too with the intake, so I did exactly what you did, put a sponge over it. The flow is WAYY  too much for a betta, but you can also turn down the flow manually on the water pump by flipping a switch, still was a bit too strong.

I also have floating plants that help with the light.

I get a lot of algae on the black filter box, but I dont do much with it as it doesn't bug me.

Edited by JamesB
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Anita,

I have several silk plants, lily pad, a couple betta leafs, and ceramic betta log all bought from petco.  I started with 1 plant and ceramic log- and added more over time.   I think I hadn’t added much anything new since last fall.   I thought he was getting bored so I kept adding.  

Here is a picture of the tank.  I have been keeping his light off most of the day at this point.   He is sleeping on his side by his log.   Kind of hard to see him.

There is an air stone in there in the back too.  I have it on now.  Would filter related accessories cause issues if they are too old?   I kept some sponges and a bag with white bio balls or something  like that inside the fluval spec filter sponge -thinking it has good bacteria.  Maybe they need changed out?  I put a carbon one in for now after the first round of kanaplex/furan2 was completed.

Thank you for your interest.

1EDC8719-927D-40D4-8571-A06D7AEBE86E.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, LeonardoBetta said:

Hi Anita,

I have several silk plants, lily pad, a couple betta leafs, and ceramic betta log all bought from petco.  I started with 1 plant and ceramic log- and added more over time.   I think I hadn’t added much anything new since last fall.   I thought he was getting bored so I kept adding.  

Here is a picture of the tank.  I have been keeping his light off most of the day at this point.   He is sleeping on his side by his log.   Kind of hard to see him.

There is an air stone in there in the back too.  I have it on now.  Would filter related accessories cause issues if they are too old?   I kept some sponges and a bag with white bio balls or something  like that inside the fluval spec filter sponge -thinking it has good bacteria.  Maybe they need changed out?  I put a carbon one in for now after the first round of kanaplex/furan2 was completed.

Thank you for your interest.

Just trying to come up with some ideas about what might be happening. Seems like your tank is stable and you haven't added any weird decorations or plants. If they came from a craft store, they might have chemicals that would make your betta sick. But from Petco, I would expect them to be fish safe. And they are not new. 

When a fish that has been healthy for a long time gets sick, most of the time it is because of the water quality has deteriorated or you introduced a disease or chemicals. But as mentioned by others, your water parameters seem good and you haven't introduced any new "stuff" into the tank. I agree with @Colu, I would not expect filter media, sponges, or decorations to be a problem just because they are old. Where people run into problems with "old" is when they have very old substrate, which depending on the type can break down or trap excessive amounts of waste. You don't have substrate, so that's out.

You have been getting good advice about bacteria, filters, and medication, so there's no need for me to add anything. FWIW, at this point, I wonder if @JamesB is right, and your betta is just getting old? As he mentioned, you do not know how old the betta was when you purchased it. Likewise, you know nothing about the quality of care it received before coming home with you. For example, I have owned dogs, cats, and birds, always as strays or from rescue shelters. Some of them have not lived as long as normal because they had such hard lives before I adopted them. 

Oh, one thing. Be really patient with the hand-feeding. It is not normal for a fish to recognize that your hand or tweezers are bringing food, as opposed to trying to catch and eat it. Follow @Colu advice and try not to "chase" the fish with the food. One thing you might try is to grab some food with the tweezers and wrap a rubber band around them to hold the food in the tips. Then slowly and gently try to maneuver the food end as close to the betta as possible without spooking it. Lay the tweezers down on the bottom of the tank and walk away from the tank for a couple hours. No peeking, which might spook the betta. Fish have a pretty good sense of smell. If you can get the tips of the tweezers anywhere close, it should be able to smell it. By leaving the tweezers in the tank, this lets your betta inspect it and get used to it in the tank. I cannot promise this will work, I am brainstorming a bit based on what I know about animals in general. (I have cared for all sorts of critters, for many years.) 

Sorry I don't have any great answers for you. Hang in there and try not to stress out. You are doing plenty of good things for your betta. And sometimes, less is better. Or in other words, you have to resist the temptation to do more, and just ride things out. 💗

 

Edited by Anita
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Anita-  I will look into your tweezer feeding approach and see what happens.

One thing that was different before he got sick was I was not able to do an entire tank cleaning since January. I would do that once a month.  I used to be able to trick him and get him into a plastic quart container.   He would just swim into it in the past.  Then he got wise to that approach.  I was afraid to scoop him with a net cause i was afraid to tear his fins.  However, despite me not being able to do a deep tank cleaning-  I did gravel vacuuming one or twice a week.  Maybe that caused the problem and why it is persisting?  I did another water change gravel vac today again of 2&1/2 gallons.  I added 8 drops of Prime.  This evening I gave him 3/4 cap of Stressgard.
 

 I did not put salt in or round 2 antibiotics-yet.   I was following Colu’s instructions to give him a little break. 
 

Thanks for your help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, LeonardoBetta said:

Thank you Anita-  I will look into your tweezer feeding approach and see what happens.

One thing that was different before he got sick was I was not able to do an entire tank cleaning since January. I would do that once a month.  I used to be able to trick him and get him into a plastic quart container.   He would just swim into it in the past.  Then he got wise to that approach.  I was afraid to scoop him with a net cause i was afraid to tear his fins.  However, despite me not being able to do a deep tank cleaning-  I did gravel vacuuming one or twice a week.  Maybe that caused the problem and why it is persisting?  I did another water change gravel vac today again of 2&1/2 gallons.  I added 8 drops of Prime.  This evening I gave him 3/4 cap of Stressgard.
 

 I did not put salt in or round 2 antibiotics-yet.   I was following Colu’s instructions to give him a little break. 
 

Thanks for your help.

Oops, my bad. I meant, your substrate is not the type that breaks down, isn't very deep, and doesn't look dirty. It was the end of a very long day when I typed all that! Sorry! 😵Again, a substrate problem would typically show up in your water parameters as excess nitrates, nitrites, and/or ammonia. But your water parameters look good. Even so, let's see if the gravel vacuuming helps! It seems you are doing everything you can right now. Time to let your poor little guy rest. 💗

Instead of the tweezers, you might try using a small ceramic or glass dish to feed your betta. Lots of people on the forum use these because they help keep the food from disappearing into the substrate. 

BC92FC43-5012-4F02-9993-9D03B9E0625D.jpeg.7fa17fff1593544feae606ef7b8ed54a.jpeg

The food needs to sink, so floating food needs to be soaked and frozen food needs to be thawed. I would suggest trying some thawed out frozen brine shrimp. Bloodworms may be too rich right now, in your Betta's weakened state. Suck up the soggy food into a small pipette, lower the pipette into the dish, and gently squeeze the pipette bulb to deposit the food onto the dish. Don't squeeze too hard or you could "jet" the food out of the dish. I use a ceramic dish with a lip, which helps keep the food from getting pushed out. You just leave the dish in the tank. 

flagfish-dish_26MAR21.gif.457dcc154967cf3f6c04ba3f43ea7b1f.gif

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Anita/all,

Leonardo (my betta) is still hanging in there.  I will try this feeding technique tomorrow.  
 

Also, I was thinking about doing the salt treatment described by JamesB first - in a day or so.  Can I do water changes during the salt treatment as long as I am conscientious about keeping track of the salt amounts?  Then if that treatment doesn’t work, I will start the 2nd round of Kanaplex/Furan-2.  
 

Does that sound like an okay plan?

Thank you-

Leonardo’s mom 🙂

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, LeonardoBetta said:

Hi Anita/all,

Leonardo (my betta) is still hanging in there.  I will try this feeding technique tomorrow.  
 

Also, I was thinking about doing the salt treatment described by JamesB first - in a day or so.  Can I do water changes during the salt treatment as long as I am conscientious about keeping track of the salt amounts?  Then if that treatment doesn’t work, I will start the 2nd round of Kanaplex/Furan-2.  
 

Does that sound like an okay plan?

Thank you-

Leonardo’s mom 🙂

Good to hear that Leonardo is still with us! 🐟 I will defer any treatment advice to @Colu and @JamesB, since you have already been following their suggestions. 😎

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, LeonardoBetta said:

Also, I was thinking about doing the salt treatment described by JamesB first - in a day or so.  Can I do water changes during the salt treatment as long as I am conscientious about keeping track of the salt amounts?  

Yes defentley do waterchanges. Too much salt in the water will be harmful. When I did my salt treatment I would do 5 consective salt treatments along with waterchanges every other day. After the 5, do a 75% waterchange and  then a 25% waterchange the next day (this will remove the salt). give it a few days before you try something else. when I did my salt treatment, The salt only killed the bacteria, and overtime he improved. After the 5 day treatment, wait 3 days and after ask your self this question "has he gotten worse", if he hasnt then GREAT! Leave it be, he will heal overtime. If not, go with the kanaplex treatment.

Keep us updated! 

(You may wanna take a picture after the 5th day of treamtent so that you can refer to it 3 days later when you reavluate) 

Edited by JamesB
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi JamesB - Thanks for checking in.   Leonardo is still hanging in there.   His eyes are still cloudy and is still lethargic - same as before.  Doesn’t seem better and doesn’t seem worse.  
 

So after my last correspondence with you- I more carefully re-read  your thread about Hugo and watched your film clip of the salt bath.   I remembered Leonardo looked the same way when I added salt to his tank during a treatment. I read more on how you gave Hugo some space - and how he revived afterwards and looked better than ever-   so I went that route somewhat.   I kept things real quiet for him the past couple days, except for 30% daily water changes and daily 1 capful of stressgard in 5gallon tank.


Tomorrow should be the 10th day since his kanaplex/furan treatment.   I am puzzled about the whole thing.  According to everything I read that Popeye should have gotten better with those meds (prior to kanaplex/furan treatment he had maracyn/salt).  I read sometimes Popeye/cloudy eyes can be caused by parasites( eye flukes)  - had you heard of that? Then I was thinking a few weeks prior to him being sick his poop had changed from solid to whiteish film or something.  Do you all think maybe the reason he wasn’t responding well to the antibiotics is that something else could be going on here?  I know you guys mentioned he could just be old and not doing well because of that as well.  What do you think of kanaplex/metroplex treatment-  or maybe triplesulfa?

Please send me your thoughts-

Thanks a lot 🙂

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm glad he hasnt gotten any worse.

After doing some research I read that when both eyes are "popping" out it could be a sign of an infection. W have already treated for bacterial infections so I would move on. Now were down to Fungul infections and parasitic infections.

It sounds that there is a better chance of it being a parasitic infection. Does Leonardo have a sunken in belly?

I havent had any experiance with any of those meds and neither have I heard any good reviews. I would try Paraclense for this treatment as well as continouing the salt treatment, instead treat every other day and decrease the ration by 25%. Treat Paraclense as the bottle shows. It may help to introduce garlic into his diet. Soak some pellets in garlic, that should help. You may have to hand feed him for him to wanna eat it. Do Waterchanges every time you test for amonia/ nitrites or if you have excess nitrates (above 20ppm). Regardless of what the bottle says, just make sure you waterchange before the treatment.

Hopeing the best for you and Leonardo!

Edited by James Black
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi JamesB,

I cannot really get a good look at his belly today.  I do recall I thought his belly was a bit swollen prior to the antibiotic treatments with no sign that I could tell of pineconing. 
 

I don’t have Paraclense, and I had been checking some local pet stores online and cannot locate it.  However I have here at the house -Api General Cure and after comparing the active ingredients/measurements online- they look to be very similar or same as paraclense.  I will do a water change later today and try this.

I will keep you guys posted on what happens.

thank you 😊

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey JamesB,

I have a feeling things are not going well.   He is still alive and sleeping all the time.   He has been at the bottom of the tank, gils moving.   Yesterday went I gave him him last treatment of General Cure- I gave a gentle nudge to a rock where he was laying.   This time he swam to the top and quickly spiraled back down into the rocks.  It wasn’t with the same vigor as he had a few days ago - and that was the first time I had seen him swimming erratically in circles.   I have a feeling he is dying.  I just hope I am not hurting him at this point.  Although he doesn’t seem in distress.   I am afraid to try to net him to euthanize cause he seems so jumpy when slightly touched.  Anyway, tomorrow according to the gen cure instructions I am supposed to change out water.  I am at a crossroads I think.   I appreciate you and others who have given me advice during this sad and confusing time for me.  
What I don’t understand is how he is staying alive this long.   He hasn’t eaten to my knowledge in a couple weeks.  Why did all the  different treatments seem to fail or not improve him much? I wish I knew.  Maybe he was older than I thought when I bought him.

Here are some nice pictures of him the first day and week when I bought him last year. 

Thanks for your concern-

7974C978-175D-438B-A810-BFECB2A9B8EA.jpeg

3FFB50B2-720F-4A3A-BCF5-705ACAAC12FF.jpeg

  • Sad 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aww... So sorry to hear about that

It could just be old age... and it probably has nothing to do with how you treated the fish, you treated the fish to the best of your ability both before and during his popeye treatment.

He was such a gourgoues boy when you first got him, and still is now!


When my betta was SUPER sick, He too had those eratical motions, almost looked like a seizure. My old betta did that lots (but thats because of his living conditions, he lived in a bowl with not heater/ filter. (Don't judge I didnt know any better, and once I did I gave him away)

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi JamesB, Colu, Anita/all,

I just wanted to let you know that Leonardo was not doing well after all the treatments.   He hardly moved the last couple days.  Meanwhile I was tending to him after the last medication wore off with the normal things - like water changes, talking to him, etc.   Today I came to the realization that he was not getting any better, and he wasn’t living the way he should. He didn’t struggle getting into the net today,  I put him to sleep with clove oil.  It was a pretty sad day here for me and the family.  

I appreciate all your advice and caring during this time. You are really wonderful folks.  Not sure when I will get another betta.  They are so beautiful.  I do have outdoor pond fish and a cat so I will focus on them for a while.   Attached is a great picture of him during happier times.

(SIP Leonardo 😔)
Take Care-

Leonardo’s mom


 

EF8792CC-733A-4AC6-B963-A292EE6FF76D.jpeg

  • Sad 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...