Betta Acts Sick- Not Sure if it’s Popeye

[LeonardoBetta]

Hi Eveyone,

My betta has been acting very lethargic more than usual and resting in odd curled positions at bottom or sides of tank.  I got him a year and 3 months ago-  he seemed pretty big when we first got him.   Sometimes it looks like he is not breathing much and then other times look like he is breathing heavy.  Water Params are ph 7.6, ammo 0, nitrite 0, nitrate ~ 5ppm.  Water temp is steady 79.  I think kh and gh are about 4 - I should retest.  At first I thought maybe he was getting old or was constipated- so I have barely been feeding him Hykari freeze dried daphnia.  He does come out for feeding time- but doesn’t eat as much as normal.  At times it seems he cannot always see.  To me his eyes look a little cloudy and stick out.  He is all black so it’s hard for me to tell.

Anyway- I posted pictures maybe you could help me confirm about the Popeye.  Also I noticed a light area showing up a couple months now near his one Gills too. See my pics.

Any help would be appreciated.   I am all set to try maracyn round 1 treatment on him.  I don’t like to hastily medicate though.

thanks in advance

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by LeonardoBetta
Added water temp and kh gh

[Colu]

That looks like popeye to me I would treat with maracyn and aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 2 gallons the salt can help reduce fluid buildup in the eye

[LeonardoBetta]

Thanks for responding.  I am making preparations to start treatments.  I have a question about the aquarium salt.  On the package it says 1 rounded tablespoon for 5 gallons.  However you say 2tablespoons per 2 gallons.  Is 2 Tbls per 2 G safe?

pls advise

 

 

[Colu]

1table spoon for 2 gallons is safe just desolve the salt in warm water before adding  to tank remember if do water change only add the amount of salt back in that you take out so if you do 2gallon water change add 1 table spoon of salt back in salt will help reduce fluid in the eye and  maracyn will help with bacterial infection that causes popeye

Edited March 22, 2021 by Colu

[LeonardoBetta]

Hello, 

I started my bettas combination salt treatment and marcyn treatment on 3/18. Prior to today-  he seemed like he was getting better in terms of more normal swimming activity.   His eyes seem the same.  He was on a regular lite feeding schedule, until this morning- where he seems interested in food- but doesn’t want to swim to top and get it.

As of yesterday 6pm water params were:

ph 7.4

ammo 0 or maybe .1?

nitrite 0

nitrate 5ppm

Does maracyn make them lose their appetite? After today’s maracyn treatment should I give him a break? Or try for a round 2?  I don’t want to over medicate him.

Any advice would be appreciated.

thank you!

[LeonardoBetta]

One more additional post to go with prior message.   His water temp is 80-81 degrees.  Here are some pictures from this morning.  There is a glare due to sunshine.

 

[Colu]

I would do a water change and leave him a couple of days and then do another course of maracyn if maracyn doesn't work try maracyn2 or kanaplex as it could be a gram negative bacterial infection

Edited March 22, 2021 by Colu

[LeonardoBetta]

Hi Colu/ all,

please help here is the log of events over past few days.  Bottom line maracyn and salt did not seem to improve his condition.   I thought he actually died yesterday.   I think something more than Popeye is going on- but I can’t be sure.   Water changes and stressgard seemed to help in terms of him not laying on his side constantly.  He has not eaten for a few days.   Should I use kanaplex? Or will it be too harsh.   Should I try methylene blue(which is active Ingredient in stressgard, as I think that perks him up)?  I just don’t know what to do but I feel if I don’t figure something out he may die soon.  Although  he is NOT pinconing yet.

***********activity log:

3/22 -didn’t come out at regular time to eat in morning; finally ate daphnia at 10:10am;  @10pm last of 5 day treatment with maracyn was given.

3/23- no treatment all day seems like he cannot see at all

3/24 - morning very ill laying on bottom; eyes look bad too; no eating

2:30pm  first water change since treatment of maracyn and 2 tbls aquarium salt - removed 2 1/2 g out of 5G water gravel vac; IAL tea; prime 8 drops

Added charcoal filter

7pm 1/2 cap stressgard

No eating all day. ; slept most of day

3/25

No signs of him all day all morning until 5:15 pm; laying behind air stone at back of aquarium on his side he looked dead.  I touched the air stone and he came back to life swam quickly to top of aquarium and stay right side up at the bottom for a while.

Shortly after Changed 2g/5gof water while gravel vac; added IAL

7pm stress gard

no eating all day

3/26 -  was up in the morning; seems a little improved- but laying on bottom most of day.  No eating so far.

Here is a picture of him about an hour ago- 2pm

Any ideas or advice will be most appreciated- He means a lot to me.

[Colu]

Looking at how he has deteriorated I would do a water change treat with kanaplex and API furan 2 together @LeonardoBetta

Edited March 27, 2021 by Colu

[LeonardoBetta]

Hi Colu/all,

I started the kanaplex and api furan-2 treatment Saturday evening around 8:45pm.

Last night I gave him only furan-2.  Tonight I read that I should change 25% of the water and then dose with Kanaplex and furan-2.

I guess he could be doing a little better as he is no longer laying on his side.   He is upright and mostly on the bottom of the aquarium.   He has not eaten for several days.   
 

Should I try to feed him?  If so how?  He is at the bottom of the aquarium.  
 

In your opinion- when should I see him starting to behave like his old self?   Or how long do I give this treatment to actually work - before considering the final options.

Please advise-

[Colu]

It could be a couple of weeks if the treatment works for you start seeing normal behaviour if you are seeing improvement and would do a second Couse of kanaplex and furan 2 have you got some long handle tweezers you hold some blood worms in front of his mouth see if he will eat them

Edited March 29, 2021 by Colu

[LeonardoBetta]

Thanks for the information Colu.  I have a few more questions- I hope you don’t mind. Sorry for so many.

Just curious how long can a betta go without food before it starts to affect his strength?

Also, before I started the kanaplex/furan2 treatments I took the main bio filter sponge out and put it in a separate tank so the beneficial bacteria wouldn’t die off during the treatment.   Was it okay to do that? Should I have kept it in place with treatment in main tank.   Can the bio filter sponge harbor bad bacteria too?  So when my fish is feeling better- if I put it in could he get another infection possibly from this filter?

please advise-

 

 

[Dwayne Brown]

No the sponge filter could harbour viruses but the beneficial bacteria should kill it all. From my research you have done everything your suposed to definately do a water changes. I think now its just a waiting game. A betta can go 1 day without it affecting his strengths but this is true for all fish at day 6 it would be worrisome.

 

[Colu]

I have never removed filter or media from a tank I have treated and I haven't had any problems you can transfer disease between tanks by moving filter media or using nets or equipment from your tank with sick fish if you don't disinfect before using in another tank your Betta can go up to 10days without eating if they were heathly to start with  if he doesn't eat to day I would start to worry he could start to get weak try blood worms or bug bites Hikari Betta bio gold pellets

Edited March 29, 2021 by Colu

[LeonardoBetta]

Hi all,

Just to clarify I took the bio filter sponge out of the main tank thinking I could preserve the beneficial bacteria so the antibiotics would not kill them.  They are sitting in my 1 gallon with nothing else and small filter moving the water.  Note my betta is the only indoor fish that I have.

Anyway as far as progress: Last night was treatment day #3- where I changed 25% of the water, then added both the kanaplex and furan-2.  Betta has been sleeping all morning from what I can tell- it’s 12:30pm.  

Prior to that treatment last evening around 8:30pm, yesterday after he seemed more active than he had been a in quite a few days.  He wasn’t hiding at was out but in some weird positions.   He seemed more interactive visibly with me -  at one point he was opening his mouth the same way in the past - like he used to when he was hungry.  I went out quickly and bought long aquarium tweezers to try and feed him but he seemed scared of them.  I dropped some worms nearby him, but I doubt he actually ate them.  Yesterday seemed like the best day so far.   

Meanwhile today I think he is probably tired from those antibiotics.   I will try to feed him later.   Do you have any tips on feeding?  Things were looking promising yesterday-  if it wasn’t for him not eating.  If he doesn’t eat in a more few days - do you think maybe it’s time to give up?  I don’t want him to suffer.

Attached is a picture from yesterday and the tweezers I bought. 

As always thanks for your advice- 

[Colu]

I would just hold the tweezers in place near his mouth try not to move them to much let him get use to them he might build up the confidence to take some of the food it might take a couple of goes before he eats

Edited March 30, 2021 by Colu

[LeonardoBetta]

Hi Colu,

No luck in feeding him yesterday, although he didn’t seem as scared of the tweezers.  He slept most of the day curled up.  This morning he is the same curled up and still breathing heavily this morning. 
 

Last night was the fourth dose of furan 2.  So that sounds like the treatment for first round is complete.  Now the kanaplex says repeat dosage up to three times - every other day.   The third dose of that would be for tonight.  
 

Should I give him furan 2  again with kanaplex tonight?  
 

Had you ever seen a fish recover well that has not eaten in a week?  Since he sleeps all the time except when I wake him up occasionally to try to eat-  is that normal for a sick fish being treated by these meds?  I am not sure if this treatment is helping, but I am by no means an expert.

Thanks for your help

please advise-

[Colu]

I would finish Couse of kanaplex not add furan 2 to night He might not make it i have seen fish recover that were really sick before keep trying to feed him hopefully the meds will start work and you will see some improvement  try offering different frozen foods such as daphnia or brine shrimp  try and stimulate him to eat

Edited March 31, 2021 by Colu

[LeonardoBetta]

Hi Colu,

I don’t know what could be happening.   I have tried everyday once or twice a day since I last written to you- to feed him.  I have gotten close to his mouth with a worm but he doesn’t seem interested. I have been soaking food in garlic juice too to entice him.He sleeps on the bottom all day.  Then when I try to work with him he has bursts of energy.   This has been going on since 3/23.  Physically except for his swollen eyes looks okay- meaning no sores, pineconing, etc.   ph 7.5 ammo 0, nitrite 0.  I was going to euthanize this morning.  I had put in a capful of stress coat (he’s in 5gallon) last night and another this morning - thinking it would make him drowsy enough to catch with a net.   He looked almost dead- then I tried a few times to scoop him up and he darted up and down- then around the tank. Then I tried to feed him and he buried his head in rocks.  I am at a loss with why he looks okay physically- but won’t eat,  and won’t die from starvation or whatever is ailing him.  Should I just keep his tank clean and just keep doing what I am doing?   I am afraid he may jump out of the net if I try pull him out to euthanize- with these energy bursts.  Is this normal behavior for a sick/ dying fish?

please advise-

thank you

[LeonardoBetta]

Sorry -  let me correct something I wrote in my prior email.   I was dosed him with Seachem Stressgard to make him drowsy, not Stresscoat.

 

thanks

[Colu]

Is it possible he is eating when your not a round picking food off the bottom of the tank I would not euthanize if he still has the energy to swim i would give the meds a rest for a week and monitor if he gets weaker and  deteriorate I would thing about euthanizeing him

[LeonardoBetta]

Thanks for the quick reply.  Someone else in my family was wondering if he might be eating stuff at the bottom.  To me when I look in at him he is laying in a certain place for several hours then moves.   I guess anything is possible.  Do you think he actually is eating something due to his bursts of energy?
 

I had finished the first round of kanaplex and furan-2.   Are you saying I should continue with a second round of both meds?  Is it possible I misdiagnosed something and he could have internal parasites and treat for those?   I don’t get what could be wrong- although the eyes are swollen.  
 

Here is a picture of him a few minutes ago.   He’s limp like this most of the time.

 

[Colu]

He could be eating off the bottom I would wait a couple of days before treating him again the meds can be taxing on the fish let him rest then do a second Couse of treatment

[rben675]

If you have the ability, set up a camera or a phone and take a video of the tank. If you can do a timelapse that'll be even better. Take it for a few hours or longer of the tank. Then just watch the video.

You'll see if he's eating from the bottom and get a sense of just how much he's moving.

I did this with my betta because whenever I saw him, he was always in the same spot in his 10 gallon and I wondered how much of the tank he actually uses. Spoiler alert: I did a 8-10 hour timelapse, he uses the whole damn thing and just kept moving to the same spot when I enter the room! Best of luck with your betta.

[FrozenFins]

What are your updated water parameters?

When did you get this betta?